[Revived Red]

Originally Posted by DAV007

the self governance was not linked to the mess the police and stewards caused on wednesday night, it was a general observation.

I realise that, Dav, and it's exactly that which worries me. In general, I just cannot see how a small group can be allowed to self govern. You have quoted some examples of verbal abuse which you suggest the Ultras have sorted amongst themselves. Who gives them the right to decide what is acceptable and what isn't? The lighting of flares and throwing of till rolls during the game is rather different from chants that may or may not be acceptable.

And to be clear, I am not linking the throwing of till rolls to the subsequent actions of the stewards and police. I am saying that the Ultras cannot be allowed to self-govern. They must be subject to the laws and bye-laws which apply in football grounds and which must be monitored by stewards and police. Exactly how the stewards and police do that is another matter altogether. Although I did not see the incidents being described in this thread, I have seen stewards (and police) behave unacceptably at other grounds. Indeed I feel so strongly about what I see as increasing intimidation of football supporters that I intend to write to the Minister of Sport to suggest that the whole business is reviewed as a matter of urgency. It seems to me that we are rapidly approaching a situation where football grounds are becoming battle grounds - and it is not battles between rival sets of fans but between fans and stewards/police.

Someone else has referred to the stewards at Doncaster. That was a model for stewarding at its best.