FANs not criminals!!!!

[DAV007]

man or woman, anyone who comes out with all this top-down innocent crap on behalf of the club/security forces needs an earful of common sense.

come to the mersey clipper on tuesday night from around 6.30pm, you will easily spot me, I will be the only stanley fan without about 5 of my tranmere mates.
I can tell you exactly what happened, just as i have done on here.

The police and stewards caused this mess, do not try and pass the book.

[yonmon]

Originally Posted by DAV007

CEF

your new on here and your clearly a steward

you talk alot of crap

Dav !... does this indicate that there might be some truth in what you say ?

But isn't "fat, bald, "look at me I'm a chief stewardit's on my jacket so I'm important" person" actually doing his job.

And I too was inclined to think that although CEF appears to have a reasonable IQ...her appreciation of
the situation to hand seemed somewhat flawed !...
although, as usual, your description of her post carries more punch than my replies could possibly contain ! . .

And, as CEF's profile indicates gender-wise that she is Female....and as I would always shy away from making sexist comments...all I can add is .. IT FOLLOWS !!

[Revived Red]

Originally Posted by DAV007

the ultras and the fans in general at accrington self govern and sort out any problems.

I did not see the problems after the game so cannot comment on those. There can be no disputing the fact that the Ultras contribute so much to both the atmosphere at the ground and to the performance of the team.

But I don't think it can be right that they self-govern. They cannot put themselves above the law. This thread is about the implementation of the law. There seemed to be evidence on Wednesday that the law was being broken by some of the Ultras. Till rolls were thrown during the game. Let's not forget that many of the Cheltenham problems were caused by illegal acts including the lighting of flares.

For the Ultras to try to put themselves above the law would be a very dangerous development indeed.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Revived Red

I did not see the problems after the game so cannot comment on those. There can be no disputing the fact that the Ultras contribute so much to both the atmosphere at the ground and to the performance of the team.

But I don't think it can be right that they self-govern. They cannot put themselves above the law. This thread is about the implementation of the law. There seemed to be evidence on Wednesday that the law was being broken by some of the Ultras. Till rolls were thrown during the game. Let's not forget that many of the Cheltenham problems were caused by illegal acts including the lighting of flares.

For the Ultras to try to put themselves above the law would be a very dangerous development indeed.

agree redraine, the ultras make the atmosphere without any doubt, whilst some may not like the law, fact remains it is. if law aint broken then chances are ya can nail these thug stewards, Break it n it becomes very hard work.

[DAV007]

revived red

the self governance was not linked to the mess the police and stewards caused on wednesday night, it was a general observation.

At every premiership ground i have been to (and I have done 19 of the current 20, most more than once), if a person was being over the top with criticism/language/racism/sexism/etc, fans would either go quiet or call a steward making the whole proccess slow, messy and difficult.
Every time i have witnessed someone going to far in the clayton end (including me! - poor old john miles, but i did end up becoming his biggest fan in the end!), the fans themselves have sorted it out as a group.

This is a unique and positive behaviour attribute which should be encouraged.

[Revived Red]

Originally Posted by DAV007

the self governance was not linked to the mess the police and stewards caused on wednesday night, it was a general observation.

I realise that, Dav, and it's exactly that which worries me. In general, I just cannot see how a small group can be allowed to self govern. You have quoted some examples of verbal abuse which you suggest the Ultras have sorted amongst themselves. Who gives them the right to decide what is acceptable and what isn't? The lighting of flares and throwing of till rolls during the game is rather different from chants that may or may not be acceptable.

And to be clear, I am not linking the throwing of till rolls to the subsequent actions of the stewards and police. I am saying that the Ultras cannot be allowed to self-govern. They must be subject to the laws and bye-laws which apply in football grounds and which must be monitored by stewards and police. Exactly how the stewards and police do that is another matter altogether. Although I did not see the incidents being described in this thread, I have seen stewards (and police) behave unacceptably at other grounds. Indeed I feel so strongly about what I see as increasing intimidation of football supporters that I intend to write to the Minister of Sport to suggest that the whole business is reviewed as a matter of urgency. It seems to me that we are rapidly approaching a situation where football grounds are becoming battle grounds - and it is not battles between rival sets of fans but between fans and stewards/police.

Someone else has referred to the stewards at Doncaster. That was a model for stewarding at its best.

[DAV007]

the best stewards i have ever witnessed where wycombe wanderers away, first game of the 2nd season back in the league.

perfect stewarding.


regarding self governance.
They are not deciding what is right or wrong, they are sorting out the problems without then need for any steward/police interferance which would escelate the issue, slow down a resolution to the problem, and make the individual who went to the stewards at risk.
With the group sorting out any issues, all of those problems are removed and the matter is sorted instantly.

I cant see what is wrong in this type of self governance? is it not to be encouraged?

What they 'decide is acceptable and what isn't' in this instance falls into the rules of attending a game.

whats your problem and who is it with? spell it out.

[cashman]

ya must be reading it differant to me davo, i dont know redraine, but i don't see he has a problem wi anyone. apart from bad stewards.

[DAV007]

cashman,
point accepted.

so is it a problem with an element of the groups actions? one of their behaviour traits?

[nige b]

dav to me the stewards at donny this year epitomised how any steward should behave regardless of their position amongst steward heirachy. they were truely magnificent and allowed us to enjoy a magnificant victory. it is very sad that in our own back yard the club are incapable of maintaining an element of empathy towards our magnificant support and have to import hi vis thugs from elsewhere and employ half of the Lancashire police force and their horses to police a match where every individual with half a brain would know there would never be any trouble.

i am just personally disgusted with the treatment of Jase and to a certain extent Danny(but he was bloody stupid) and hope we can resolve the situation whereby both lads can resume their rightful places on the terraces around the country supporting Stanley

[cashman]

Originally Posted by DAV007

cashman,
point accepted.

so is it a problem with an element of the groups actions? one of their behaviour traits?

only thing i can say davo in my view, is if certain people didn't break the law, then those thug stewards aint got a starting point, so therefore if the stewards behave like louts, ya surely stand a better chance of bringing em to book, its hard enough to do that. they will always use previous offences to defend their action, whilst it may well be balls, thats what they'll do, i got that particular T-Shirt.

[nige b]

Originally Posted by cashman

only thing i can say davo in my view, is if certain people didn't break the law, then those thug stewards aint got a starting point, so therefore if the stewards behave like louts, ya surely stand a better chance of bringing em to book, its hard enough to do that. they will always use previous offences to defend their action, whilst it may well be balls, thats what they'll do, i got that particular T-Shirt.

cashy from what tour was that from and also good to meet you on weds night.cheers nige

[nige b]

Originally Posted by nige b

cashy from what tour was that from and also good to meet you on weds night.cheers nige

cashy i actually meant what tour t shirt

[shakermaker]

Can only comment on what I saw. In between the clubhouse and the Crown steps, I saw five police officers take down one flummoxed Stanley fan. What he did, I don't know. I then saw a couple of the officers call over two horseback officers. I then saw eight officers in blue uniform (for all intents and purposes - riot gear) run in behind the Clayton End. The man struggled, shouting "what is this even for?". One of the officers slammed the man against a van and shouted "you're peeing (sic) me off". I thought the worst case of hideously disproportionate policing and terrible ground safety standards would be at Cheltenham away. I was wrong.

Let's make one thing clear - there has never ever been any trouble with the Stanley Ultras until stewards and/or police have intervened. Think about that.

Isn't the primary objective for matchday police, stewards and their controlling officer the safety of all spectators? Exactly who was made unsafe inside the ground by Jase, Danny or any of the Ultras?

This abject failure of authority figures that night sickened me and has made me seriously rethink returning to The Crown Ground.

[maccawozzagod]

i'll tell you what Shakey, I'm that petrified about how I might be treated in future, if I stand with the Ultras, that I might start going in the home ends when we play away ...