Windass and Crooks............. - Page 10

Chimer · 08-01-2016, 10:30

Great comments by Andy Holt on Fishy ...

Back the boys: Andy Holt ? Accrington Stanley FC

Bellshillbear · 08-01-2016, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpon

Absolute rubbish.....

With the exception of Davis (for whom I can't seem to find any info on Wiki) the other four players became free agents after your club went into liquidation, when all four chose not to join your "new club" and drop to the fourth tier of Scottish football. Their contracts with the "old" Rangers became defunct when your club went into liquidation. Hence they went where they did under totally different circumstances.

I've also trawled through pages of posts on Rangers forums.....from gloating Rangers fans.....quite happy with the fact that your club has turned us over. A lot of those posts show your "fans" in a true light.

Arrogant.

I also read with interest that Rangers have already supposedly inserted a "£3.5million release clause" into Windass' future contract.

Not bad business for a player you're getting on the cheap !!

There was not a lot Stanley could do after the players agent "pimped" them around. From that moment, the two players were never going to sign another contract at Stanley.

Stanley can't afford the wages that not only Rangers, but any bigger club could offer. We were already in a no win situation that meant we were going to lose both players for a pittance.

The decent thing to do as a club, would have been to ask for permission to speak to the players. Permission that no doubt would have been granted, albeit reluctantly.

Not send an e-mail to the club secretary telling him / her that you would be speaking to the players.

But your club went behind our Chairman's, owner's and manager's backs to sign the pair up on a loophole on the cheap. At a critical point in our season where promotion to the next level is an achievable goal.

This situation has the potential to not only ruin our season, but leave us extremely out of pocket in the long run.

No decent compensation for two promising players given a second chance by a club that needs to make money by unearthing such "gems" and selling them on at a profit. A club that has to live within it's means and try and survive on 1500 gates in the shadow of two more illustrious and better supported neighbours.

No potential sell on clauses benefiting A.S.F.C. should Rangers sell one or both on at a massive profit for Glasgow Rangers.

So I stand by my conviction that your club has no class when it came to dealing with these two signing for you.

Your club has exploited both the rules and our predicament without even having the decency of asking for permission to shaft us.

Another gers fan (in disbelief)

All of the players mentioned that left us for free had been tupped over to the new company, contracts were bought and the rest of the team stayed and played or seeked transfers.

Anyway why is nothing bad until we do it?english clubs have been exploiting the low cross border compensation fee for years but when we do it its "classless"

My Honest opinion is that the fans and staff of AS are just bitter. Bitter because you are a small club flying high this year and losing 2 good players in the team for next to nothing is a kick in the nasties.

We can't be blamed for FIFAs rules and the way we went about it was modern etiquette. We don't need permission to speak to your players, Bosman made sure if that. We have players out of contract in the summer and a few English clubs are sniffing about

We're Bayern classless when they signed lewandowski on a Bosman? Ballack, pirlo, babbel and Hebron larrson all left on Bosnians so why are we being demonised?

THE BOSMAN RULING

This is an an EU ruling that allows out-of-contract footballers to leave their clubs without them receiving a transfer fee.

It is named after Belgian striker Jean-Marc Bosman, who took his club, RC Liege, to court over his desire to move to Dunkerque against his employers' wishes.

In 1995, the European Court of Justice banned restrictions on foreign EU players within national leagues and allowed players in the EU to move to another club at the end of a contract without a transfer fee being paid.

Revived Red · 08-01-2016, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

It does have a great bearing, following the fact that in 62, me @ many others had to go elsewhere to watch football. we then became indoctrinated with Blackburn or Burnley, as teenagers, then got wed etc and our kids came yon with us. fact. ok me and a few more returned to stanley, but most didn't.plus our kids never even knew stanley, so they were never gonna defect.

our kids then got wed and were did there kids go?

I know we are in danger of moving away from the topic of this thread .... but ... I know the historical dimension may have some bearing - but not a great deal. If we continue to blame our location (and what happened over half a century ago) for our poor attendances, we may as well give up because we cannot change history or geography.

accybeme · 08-01-2016, 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revived Red

You make excellent points, but please don't equate our poor attendances with our location between Blackburn and Burnley. Remember that Stockport County can average attendances of about 3000 - and they are only 7 miles from the Etihad and Old Trafford.

I have very mixed feelings about this whole episode and I suspect that we did ourselves no favours with the ludicrous claim that one or both of these would be our first million pound player. I also suspect that Rangers will have played by the rules - no more, no less. It is impossible to go beyond that and talk about "rights and wrongs" because football, in its entirety, exists in a moral vacuum.

If the pair are selected to play, it will be interesting to see how the fans respond. I have a suspicion that fans will certainly react to a few misplaced passes or missed opportunities to score.

I can't see any good will come from holding them back until the summer window, neither player is going to risk injury in the remainder of this season, the best option must be to get a reasonable fee from Rangers and move on,
on the Blackburn / Burnley not an issue on our fan base
Stockport av. 3000 from population of 138000 = 1 in every 46
Stanley av 1400 from population of 37000 = 1 in every 27
as both clubs suffer from bigger clubs in the area its impossible to equate the full effects but the fact is they do inhibit the fan base to both clubs

Bellshillbear · 08-01-2016, 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chimer

Great comments by Andy Holt on Fishy ...

Back the boys: Andy Holt ? Accrington Stanley FC

This was indeed a good article. I wish you guys all the best and hope yous get promotion

cmonstanley · 08-01-2016, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpon

Absolute rubbish.....

With the exception of Davis (for whom I can't seem to find any info on Wiki) the other four players became free agents after your club went into liquidation, when all four chose not to join your "new club" and drop to the fourth tier of Scottish football. Their contracts with the "old" Rangers became defunct when your club went into liquidation. Hence they went where they did under totally different circumstances.

I've also trawled through pages of posts on Rangers forums.....from gloating Rangers fans.....quite happy with the fact that your club has turned us over. A lot of those posts show your "fans" in a true light.

Arrogant.

I also read with interest that Rangers have already supposedly inserted a "£3.5million release clause" into Windass' future contract. Your nuts lol even if these people are rangers supporters which I am finding it hard to find

Not bad business for a player you're getting on the cheap !!

There was not a lot Stanley could do after the players agent "pimped" them around. From that moment, the two players were never going to sign another contract at Stanley.

Stanley can't afford the wages that not only Rangers, but any bigger club could offer. We were already in a no win situation that meant we were going to lose both players for a pittance.

The decent thing to do as a club, would have been to ask for permission to speak to the players. Permission that no doubt would have been granted, albeit reluctantly.

Not send an e-mail to the club secretary telling him / her that you would be speaking to the players.

But your club went behind our Chairman's, owner's and manager's backs to sign the pair up on a loophole on the cheap. At a critical point in our season where promotion to the next level is an achievable goal.

This situation has the potential to not only ruin our season, but leave us extremely out of pocket in the long run.

No decent compensation for two promising players given a second chance by a club that needs to make money by unearthing such "gems" and selling them on at a profit. A club that has to live within it's means and try and survive on 1500 gates in the shadow of two more illustrious and better supported neighbours.

No potential sell on clauses benefiting A.S.F.C. should Rangers sell one or both on at a massive profit for Glasgow Rangers.

So I stand by my conviction that your club has no class when it came to dealing with these two signing for you.

Your club has exploited both the rules and our predicament without even having the decency of asking for permission to shaft us.

Words fail me no rules were broken rangers declared an interest in November it was all over the papers you are mixing up gloating with happy to get players .so if you are running a business you would pay out money if you didn't need to. Rangers sent an email which rangers didn't need to. I would be happy to give Stanley a couple of hundred grand and play a friendly. Take a chill pill and support Stanley there's too much hate and not enough love

up the Stanley and rangers

cashman · 08-01-2016, 11:34

Thing is wi this, J.C. was quoted as saying " No-one was going anywhere in Jan" so therefore Rangers could only in my view talk about a season end deal? so therefore perhaps we woulda been better if that had been unsaid? it was also said a few clubs were interested in the 2 players? the fact that was said by J.C. may well have put others off? with hindsight we woulda been better off certainly by selling the players in this window?

Red-Osbornello · 08-01-2016, 12:46

I think people need to calm down a bit on here. Everyone is gutted at losing the pair, and I'm no exception (well, about Crooksey anyway).

We all knew the players were on their way out, one way or another. Yes, we'd all loved to have seen the club get a 6-figure sum (I think 7 was unrealistic personally), but its not happened.

As for Rangers, they've done a cracking bit of business here by making use of a rule to their advantage. People mention that Rangers wouldn't like it if the shoe was on the other foot, but retrospectively, we would love it if it was the other way around?? If we had managed to get two highly rated Scottish gems for next to nothing, we'd be praising the club for doing an excellent job. Rangers sent an email - they didn't have to. They've shown their intentions in the media for some time too - it wasn't a surprise! No team will offload needless money if they don't have too.

My disappointment is more with the players. If what's been said is true and they didn't let the club know they were heading to Glasgow, that's a lack of respect to Coley and the club. Also showing their delight via social media with no mention of our club but saying that they can't wait to join a big & ambitious club is a kick in the teeth to our fans. I have no doubts that they meant no disrespect by their comments, but it was a naive move by the lads. I thought they'd have a bit more sense than that.

But it's on Stanley on, keep the faith boys and girls! Don't get dragged down into nasty comments and unnecessary abuse. It doesn't give our fans a good name either. Push that frustration deep down and release it on match day when spurring on the mighty boys in red!

cashman · 08-01-2016, 12:58

Mind you did J.C @ J.B. notify stanley when they went to talk to Rochdale? if not that was a lack of respect to Stanley also.

choirboy · 08-01-2016, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Thing is wi this, J.C. was quoted as saying " No-one was going anywhere in Jan" so therefore Rangers could only in my view talk about a season end deal? so therefore perhaps we woulda been better if that had been unsaid? it was also said a few clubs were interested in the 2 players? the fact that was said by J.C. may well have put others off? with hindsight we woulda been better off certainly by selling the players in this window?

Reading between the lines re your quote by Coley...." No-one was going anywhere in Jan"....it sounds to me like Coley already knew some time ago what was going to happen regarding the two lads going to Rangers!

I have absolutely no doubt that Coley is going to continue to do the best for the club and the fans by continuing to pick the STRONGEST TEAM for any/all of the remaining fixtures for the rest of this season. IMHO we must trust in Coley and Jimmy, (and the support for them by Andy Holt and the board), and let them get on with doing the great job that they have always done for Accy Stanley!
I can just remember, in my childhood, the wonder years under Walter Galbraith in the 1950's and he was always regarded as Stanley's greatest ever manager. John Coleman, along with Jimmy Bell because he is part of the success story too, now ranks alongside Walter in my assessment and I do believe that he will go on to surpass him!
I don't get involved with commenting on the rules and regulations of the business of football ....and yes I am probably very naive....
But I will express my total faith and support for STANLEY once again as I always do and I really hope that everyone on Saturday gets absolutely 100% behind the players and management on Saturday and spur the team, whoever is picked to play, onto a great victory and three more points in the REDVOLUTION which is ACCRINGTON STANLEY battling for promotion!

Simples....
BACK THE TEAM!
100% SUPPORT!
COME ON YOU REDS!
ON STANLEY ON!

cmonstanley · 08-01-2016, 14:32

Memory serves me that 9 of Tha all Scottish accy Stanley team from the 50s were rangers supporters as I've spoke to few of the surviving ones when I lived in accy . Always had a good yap on the way to work with the window cleaner anybody in the kno will know who I am talking about.

choirboy · 08-01-2016, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

Memory serves me that 9 of Tha all Scottish accy Stanley team from the 50s were rangers supporters as I've spoke to few of the surviving ones when I lived in accy . Always had a good yap on the way to work with the window cleaner anybody in the kno will know who I am talking about.

I lived with my parents on the Within Grove council estate where the Scottish players were all housed and went to school with and knocked about with some of their kids! I still have a drive onto the estate about once a year or so for old times sake!

To keep 'On Thread' ......
Let's hope we are still discussing 'Scottish Links' with big clubs stealing players from Accy Stanley in the football League in another fifty years...

ps. If the match is still on I think that there might possibly be a bit of an increase in the attendance....??

Walter Galbraith · 08-01-2016, 15:46

Accrington Stanley

Can't help liking a football club with such a good name

I'm a Rangers fan too but perfectly understand how you guys feel. If the situation was reversed we'd be a bit annoyed as well. Happens to all clubs now with the Bosman ruling. No doubt a worse blow to a smaller club with less resources. Hopefully negotiations are taking place that result in some sort of agreement that suits you lot better. I read we could maybe take these two boys for under a hundred grand at the end of the season. I agree that is a joke for two guys thought to have the potential to play for our first team.

In the past we'd probably have given you 2 million. If anything we are usually over generous when it comes to buying players. The clubs been through hell in the last few years and every penny is no doubt a prisoner. Our support is a little sensitive at the moment due to our club being slaughtered up in Scotland all the time and that's why your owners comments have annoyed people. Our press love a negative story to slate Rangers about.

I agree with your owner though. A phone call is just courteous. Its not like us. Our new chairman is not rich by football owner standards and we have a long way to go, so he's obviously playing hardball with people. He also used the media to shame a club legend for wanting paid a valid contract after being dismissed by the club. The guy looked like he was being greedy but seeing Rangers doing its business like that is a bit of an embarrassment.

For a big club its more traditional than commercial. Our fans are already saying your boys need better haircuts and dress sense if their going to represent our club

Its more a joke now but having generations of fans and a pride in our history makes even our young kids argue about standards set down by strict old managers who lived and breathed the club. Our club has a lots of old traditions. Some of these celebrate links with other clubs from the past like a cup Stoke gave us yonks ago is used to toast the first game of each new year. A lot of our momento's in our trophy room are from our first games against other teams. That's why its untypical of the club to attract negative comments from another club outwith some obvious Scottish ones. We come from very humble origins for a football club so its nothing to do with disrespecting a smaller club.

Dean Windass

I remember him playing for Aberdeen. Was a decent enough player. The sort who got stuck right in and you appreciate but not anything out of the ordinary. Every club has had loads of players like him. Seems his kid has insisted on a get-away clause. Got to laugh at that because I can't even remember big name players asking for that. Not very endearing if you ask me but football seldom reflects the values of the punters now.

Hope our two chairman's have a word and sort something. Even if it's a deferred extra payment once our finances are better. I always thought the club tried to build links with others because who knows when other players might come along. I seen you got a shift out of one of our lads so it can work both ways.

We are all behind our chairman because he is one of us and that's a small mercy after everything we've been through. Been ripped off by so many people its unbelievable. But some of his actions so far as I said are not really typical of how the support like to see the club doing business. Hopefully it changes back to normal once our finances are in order.

Anyway, I've rambled on to long. My apologies. Will look out for your results now and hope to see you getting promoted. Might pop along once all this has settled as I live near Bolton and only get to Ibrox every six or so weeks now.

Dav1d · 08-01-2016, 16:38

This is currently being broadcast on Sky sports news, with andy showing a print out of the email sent and saying that he thinks the lads were spoken too before the email was sent. in my view id start them on the bench because if we are going continue and build a team for the next few years than we need players who want to be here and play for Accrington, gutted for coley too loose two players without any money back, but coley's view on the fishy site is really good, and looking forward to tomorrow.

ayrshireranger · 08-01-2016, 16:54