Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Well, at last something appears to be happening to Church's Grade II listed warehouse - although, alas, not to it's equally illustrious neighbour, the Commercial Hotel. We don't know yet weather this is simply a temporary preserving operation for the building or possibly the beginning of a redevelopment, although I suspect the former because nowts happening on the hotel.

Many thanks to Acrylic Bob for suppling the piccy's, which I suspect were taken on the same day as the Clayton Grade II warehouse.

Anyway, a couple of questions for all you students of Industrial Archeology:

1) Looking from the front of the Warehouse, what is the reason for the height of the entrance arch?

2) Looking across at the rear of the Warehouse, why is the bottom half the the facing and side wall corner angled at 45 degrees, rather than the normal right angle?

There's a Coconut from Acrylic and a goldfish from me for the first person with both correct answers.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Oops.....wrong Piccy...a-bob......can You Help...need Piccy's 84 & 96

Cheers

Tea

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Course I can mate!

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Excellent pics Ab, we should enjoy this.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Was number 1. Too allow for the passage of large loads of cotton bails.

Was no 2. too allow the horses to move in to a position better suited for loading barges on the water front.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Could the reason for number 2 possibly also have something to do with rope? If the horses were pulling the barges round a sharp corner it would possibly wear the rope away but an angled corner like that wouldn't have the same effect. Mind you, I'd have thought rounded in that case would be even better.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I think it might have something to do with the winch maechanism that is further up the wall, so having a guess at "preventing damage to bails when being loaded/unloaded" ie not banging on a sharp corner

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Thinking about it, I think it is far more likley that it is to prevent damage to the building from tow ropes. Have a look at the pic below of the inside edge of Bridge Street bridge.
The canal turns a sharp corner here and there is evidence that vertical wooden rollers had been installed at some stage to prevent the damage shown.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

The combination of tough rope and soft stone there is quite amazing. I wonder how many ropes it took to wear those grooves?

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

http://www.canaljunction.com/

This will give an Idea.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I tried to up load a recent shot of a Canal Boat coming up under Church Kirk Bridge to give an idea of scale, but I can't get it up. I think that on most occasions the horse would be walked around the bridges and other obstacles, if you look at the width of some of the toe paths you can see that horses wouldn’t go.

I remember seeing blokes walking the barge through by lying against the side of the barge and using their legs to walk against the wall of the bridge. Others used poles to push their way through. I can always remember how friendly people were and how you always got a nod or a wink. The men always seemed to have worn grubby faces and the woman always smiling but tired looking and the grubby dogs that either run the banks or sat on the bow end. All this still happened back in the early 60s down by the donkey back at church.

This is a fascinating subject; I hope we can keep this going.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Hey Tealeaf, your original photo isn't even in Church.................... Its the Former Doctors Surgery across from the (or what was) Antley Pub. Dr. Harbinsons' if I remember rightly, and it backed onto Rastricks Foundry.

As for the warehouse next to the Commercial...that's an area where money can be spent on Historical and Heritage improvements for Church. Cleaning up and improving the Canal wouldn't be a bad way of spending EU money either.

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Is Rastrick's foundry derelict? That area could do with a bit of a facelift.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

With reference to the photo of Dr Harbinson's old surgery, I was in the area the other day and took photo's of that and the house that backs onto Rastricks, because they are both now empty and with the demolition planned for that area I thought that it would be a good idea to record them before the bulldozers got there. Tealeaf posted it in error.

Correct me if I am wrong but the former Antley Pub is on the same side of the road and is now a Muslim Girls School. I wonder if that will be coming down too? It would be nice if there was a plan of the areas to be demolished in that part of town.

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I've just come past that ex-pub/girls' school and it has a tree growing out of it! It could certainly do with a facelift if nothing else.

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And a nice photo it is too. I wasn't complaining in any shape or form, and good luck to you A-Bob, I don't know what they'll pull down next. Oak Tree? or turn it into a Mosque?

Has the world gone crazy? There won't be any heritage left in a couple of years, no wonder I don't want to come back to live in Accy, Church or Ossy...I wouldn't recognise them soon, and may get lost!!

As somebody else has said. Wouldn't it be better to sell existing houses to young couples at a cheap price and throw in a modernisation grant. At least the area would still look like Church and retain something of historical value.!

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Here is the photo. I can't see Willow's tree though.

Darby: Yes, I agree that the £11,000,000 available for regeneration would be much better spent in improvement grants than squandered by HBC on an endless round of feasibility studies and Nigel Rix's Empire Building schemes. Hey, but we just live here, what do we know?

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Just to let you know that there is an article in today's "Times"which compare the East Lancs Elevate Regeneration Schemes to the forced housing clearances of the Scottish Highlands in the 18 & 19th centuries. You can view it on line. Type in "Darwen" in search on it's site.

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Thanks for that Tealeaf.

Two points stand out.
"Terrace houses that are built on hills tend to be stepped, each with a cornice or parapet lower or higher than it's neighbours. The Darwen houses are distinct because the roofs form a continuous slope the length of the terrace."

and

"They can at least take heart from nearby Nelson. Here a compulsory purchase order to bulldoze an area of similar traditional stone built terrace housing was challenged and the houses are now being refurbished."

I have the full article and can make it available if anyone is interested. PM me your email address.

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OK...now that some of you have replied to the questions, I'll give you a couple of further clues. So far, Doug has been partially right on the height of the entrance & K.S.H. is going in the right direction for the building corner. However, everyone seems obsessed by the towpath.
What towpath? There are no towpaths on that side of the canal, and I doubt if the horse would have gone for a paddle while towing the barge. The towpath is on the opposite side of the canal, and we can see from Acyril's picture where serious wearing was done on the bridge structure by the tow rope on a full 90% left hand turn in the canal.
Talking about geometric angles...thats the clue to the second question, while the clue to the first is three-dimensional.

While you're having a think about it, who remembers the Banana Chimney just round the bend from the warehouse?

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

>>What towpath? There are no towpaths on that side of the canal<<

Ah, yes, well, actually, while it is not technically a towpath, in the sense that you could get a horse on it. There is actually a path of sorts on the opposite side of the canal to the official towpath which, as we have seen, you could get a horse on which runs from the yard at the rear of the Commercial Hotel to the yard at the rear of the warehouse. It is composed of flagstones built into the base of the building and is about 2-3 feet wide.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Hi bob, This new pic is helpful, but would be more so if you could pull it back a bit so we see the whole building. Please.......

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Here it is, as requested. This is the whole photo.

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Cheers bob; I was interested in seeing A. The Bank aside the warehouse and the pool and B. the location of the gib? if that's what it is.

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Would the angle of the wall allow the vehicle being loaded to be angled across the corner to better facilitate the vehicle being centred under the descending load. There's a tree in the way, it's difficult to see just how much the wall goes in below the right angle. If it isn't very much, then I guess this wouldn't be the reason.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I think I may have a partial solution.

The space in the canal to the left of the building would accomodate two barges, moored with their prows against the wall of the building. The diagonal section of the wall together with the winch beam above would imply some sort of moveable walkway or gangplank, maybe one that was heavy enough to allow a cart to cross, which is why it would need a winch to move it.

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Interestingly, the 1845 OS First edition map of the area shows a footpath crossing the site through a gap in the wall on bridge street, across the site of the warehouse yard and exiting via the flagged walk onto Maden street. Could the diagonal sectioning of the wall of the warehouse, together with the flagged walkway be an accomodation to allow this foot traffic?

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A really interesting thread this one. I can rmember playing on the Bridge on Bridge St. as a tot and watching the barges being loaded and unloaded. The photos you are posting A-Bob are first class, but bring a tear to my eye, just thinking of what it was and what it has become. It never was a place of beauty, but a working place and always had plenty of rats (seem hundreds of 'em).

But it cries out for heritage money and need to be put back in order...working order...with ropes, block & tackle, and (dare I say it) a Barge or two. This particular site IS CHURCH and stands for what Church was!

Anyway, I've wiped the tears away....carry on....great stuff!!

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Ok, I think that I have got it. Goods In at the front of the building under the arch would be hoisted to whatever level and stored. There has to be some reason why the windows facing the canal are so large and level with the floor. The reason is because they were used for loading/unloading. the diagonal section of the corner is integral to the building and not a later addition so it was obviously intended to be there from the begining. And why put a lifting beam on a corner? It didnt make sense until I thought of it as a bracket beam which held a rotating rotating arm which could service two sides of the building. the diagonal section is to accomodate the thicker base which did not rotate. Sorry for the scrappy nature of the drawing, but trying to draw with a mouse is feindishly difficult.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

OK A-B.....You've got it. If you have a hoist (comprising pivot, jib and block & tackle) directly against a wall it's maximum arc of operation is 180 degrees (it can lift or drop to it's left, right and straight ahead)...however, put it at a 45 o angle between 2 walls and the arc of operation increases to 270o. This means in the warehouse case that barges can be unloaded/loaded directly to/from the warehouse or on to/off a cart (or even from a cart to the canalfront of the warehouse)


Clever lot, these Georgians.....now what about the height of the arch?

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What kind of operation was carried out at the building?

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Going back to the old Antley pub, when they turned it into a Muslim girls school, did they have to exorcise the spirits ..?

Sorry.

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Just a point here, Can anyone remember the Iron Barge that was semi submerged just past the Church yard. I think there where two at one time, the second being further up stream towards the pool. I think they where colliers, they had an open load area amid ships, covered bow and just a small platform at the stern…..it was this type of barge that I use to see being towed two at a time by a diesel powered river boats. The guy’s on the colliers had to walk them under Church Kirk Bridge to stop then hitting the side. If you look you can see these no toe path on the other side from the Kirk.

One more question, Is the chain bridge still there, it was a narrow affair with Chain guards that lowered when it was opened. It was between Church Kirk Bridge and the swing bridge before Dill Hall Farm if I remember correctly.

Pendy

Why Pendy?, do you think they may have had pendygeists? No, oh dear, pendygeists = poltergeists Sorry…………………..I won’t do it again. lol.

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Has to be said, I am no stranger to pubs, or to spirits. In fact, so far as my local bar, you could say that I haunt it ...

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The Warehouse was built by the Hargreaves' of Broad Oak, so it seems reasonable to suppose it handled printed calico at first.

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I'm not sure of my information at this time, but I'm led to believe that Cotton Weaving was conducted on the premises some time between the wars. Could the height of the arch having anything to do with drying the Calico mentioned by bob?.

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Just found this.

ACCRINGTON BOROUGH COUNCIL

ARMS: Gules on a Fesse Argent a Shuttle fessewise proper in base two Printing Cylinders issuant therefrom a Piece of Calico (paisley pattern) also proper on a Chief per pale Or and Vert a Lion rampant Purpure and a Stag current Or. CREST: On a Wreath of the Colours an Oak Branch bent from the sinister chevronwise sprouting and leaved proper fructed Or.

Motto 'INDUSTRY AND PRUDENCE CONQUER'.
Granted 26th August 1879.

The shuttle represents cotton spinning, and the cylinders and calico the industry of printing that material. The stag is from the arms of the local family of Hargreaves, of Broad Oak, who were closely connected with calico printing. The lion is that of the ancient family De Lacy, who held Accrington by grant of Henry II.
The oak branch is trebly allusive to the name: it is bent into the shape of its initial letter; oak (Anglo-Saxon ac) expresses the first syllable; and the acorns recall the old form of the name, Akerenton.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I have paid another visit to Church's Historic Waterfront and I have pleasure in including the following snaps which better illustrate Tealeaf's question.

I am also including a photo of the back of the Commercial Hotel. Considering that the Hotel was built in 1834, I think this is little short of CRIMINAL.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Anyone know who owns the pub, and why nothing is being done about the state it is in.

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When I said "tree" I was exaggerating ever so slightly. (Islamia girls school/ex-pub) There's something growing from the troughing.

Didn't Thwaites Brewery own the Copmmercial at one time?

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Quote: A-Bob
"I am also including a photo of the back of the Commercial Hotel. Considering that the Hotel was built in 1834, I think this is little short of CRIMINAL"

I wholeheartedly agree. When will some of the Heritage money be spend on something like the commercial?. Or is it seen as a "private venture"?

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HBC appear to have a problem funding anything which carries with it a committment to maintenance. That is why we lost Oak Hill Mansion and why the parks are in such a desperate state. Have a look at their website, in there you will find a number of reports which reveal the attitude of the council to matters of heritage.

The council says it spends 99% of it's budget on what it calls 'Core Services' and has to seek external funding for anything else. Core Services, thats a good one! With the amount of money that the Council collect from us and from Central Government and from Europe we should have 'Core Services' that are second to none and a shining example to the rest of the country. Instead we have filthy streets and a council that appears incapable of getting anything right at the first attempt. They have been responsible for collecting the same refuse from the same areas for the last thirty years and yet to hear them talk you would think that they only started to tackle the problem last week. If it was only refuse collection that was problematic that would be bad enough, but this goes right through every department.

In such a climate of institutionalised incompetence, what chance does our rapidly vanishing heritage stand?

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A sad state of affairs A-Bob...."Responsibility" is no longer an accepted word, not in political circles at least. And certainly not in HBC it seems!

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Right....back to the subject of the warehouse & the 2 questions I originally posed, one of which has been correctly answered by A-B., that the rear design allowed for loads to be moved from/to barge-warehouse-cart in whatever combination neccessary, unlike most other warehouses or wharfs which simply backed on the the canal and loading/unloading was restricted to 2 of the combination.

But the genius of the design does'nt stop there, and that can be seen in the height of the entrance arch, which at first glance appears to waste potential storage space. Some of you, however, may be aware of the concept of "just-in-time-delivery", i.e. where fresh produce is delivered several times daily to ASDA by an artic wagon which draws up & everything is offloaded from the back. But this modern stuff is pretty primitive compared to what the Church Warehouse allowed for.

Look at A-B's last set of piccy's, and the one taken looking up into the roof of the arch. You can clearly see a loading hatch....goods could be hoisted straight up from the back of a lorry and straight into the warehouse. Alternatively, they could be slung to the side and delivered into the first floor loading bays.....all of course, within the shelter of the elements. It all means that a large cart can come in, get unloaded & be reloaded at the same time...as the jargon goes, "minimising turn-around time." I do not think that most modern warehouse storage and lorry delivery systems are yet capable of doing this.

So there we go. We have a fully integrated, flexible, warehouse/storage/transport system which fulfills it's design function and will no doubt look pretty when/if it's all cleaned up. I do not know of any similar Georgian/Victorian industrial building which fulfills it's criteria as well as this, and it certainly puts these modern warehouse white boxes with their multitude of loading bays to shame.

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Just read a good book about leeds liverpool by Mike Clarke.
The History of the Leeds-Liverpool Canal

Originally the Leeds & Liverpool Canal was not going to serve the larger towns of East Lancashire. It was planned to follow a route through Padiham, to the north of the River Calder, crossing into the Ribble Valley over an aqueduct at Whalley Nab. Limestone was thought to be the canal’s most important traffic, and this route would have enabled the quarries at Clitheroe to be served by a branch.
The canal was expensive to build, and only the sections from Leeds to Gargrave and from Liverpool to Wigan were opened by 1777 when money ran out. Because of the American War of Independence, it was another thirteen years before money for further work could be raised. By that time the canal company had discovered that coal had become a more important cargo than lime. The builders of the canal now wanted to serve the growing industrial towns of East Lancashire and the local coalfield, so the route of the canal was altered to pass through Burnley and Blackburn. The canal reached Burnley in 1796 and was extended to Enfield Wharf, near Accrington, in 1801, some 31 years after construction of the canal had been begun.
As the Leeds and Liverpool Canal winds its tortuous way through East Lancashire it seems to carefully avoid Accrington. However, when the canal’s route through East Lancashire was planned in 1793, it was to continue up the valley of the Hydburn, crossing it at a point close to the old Grammar School on Blackburn Road. The proposed Haslingden Canal was to join it here, creating a waterway link with Bury and Manchester. Had this happened there would have been a wharf near the junction where goods to and from the town could have been handled.
Instead the route was altered. The Peel family asked the canal company to avoid crossing the Hyndburn above their textile print works at Peel Bank. At that time it was one of the largest factories in the world and used the river's waters during the printing process. Building the embankment for the canal to cross the Hyndburn would have interrupted this supply and caused production problems. Instead, the canal was built downstream, rejoining the original line at a right angle junction at Church.
Much of the land for the canal deviation had to be purchased from the Petre family of Dunkenhalgh. Although they were quite happy for the canal to be built, they requested that the towpath was made on the side of the canal away from their house and lands.They hoped that this would prevent poachers from gaining easy access to their estate!
A further nine years were to pass before the canal opened to Blackburn as there were difficulties in crossing the many rivers and streams around Church, and the deep cutting at Sidebeet also took time to complete.
The canal finally reached Blackburn in 1810, forty years after the construction of the canal had begun. Seven boats were reported as sailing in procession from Enfield to Blackburn on the occasion of the opening; two children and three men fell into the water, and one man seriously injured his hand whilst firing a small cannon as the boats arrived at Eanam Wharf.

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Very interesting Bazf...trying to imagine what the area looked like in those days is difficult, and the civil engineering work must have been tremendous.!!
Good stuff Bazf!

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sorry to disappoint ! talking to someone about the old wharf, they said nowts happening with it yet.the owner has been forced to board it up to make it safe so kids cant get in.

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Staggeringman, Do you have any local history on the Commercial?

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

:drink:sorry dougdont have anything on the commercial.

Commercial Inn
 

I have read somewhere that the coming of the Turnpike road through Church in 1827 led to further developments. In 1834 the pub was built on Petre land by a Mr James Haworth and a Mr James Greaves.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

The interesting thing about Blackburn Road, which as Atarah says, was built as a Turnpike Road following an Act of Parliament in 1826, is not the road itself, but the preceding road..does anyone know the older route between Accy/Church and Blackburn? I think I do, but I'm not 100% certain.

Another point about the new turnpike road is that when the railway came over in 1848, the road had to be lowered to allow for a minimum height of the bridge. The consequences of this are still with us today....very heavy rainfall results in the road under the railway bridge flooding.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Tealeaf I'm not sure myself, but I once read that the road from Church to Blackburn went up Coach Road over the Whiteash - Stanhill - Knuzden and came ot the other side of the Intack. I was also once told that the original road went from Church Kirk in a more (or less) direct route to Coach Road through what is now Blythes.
I can't confirm any of this but I'm almost sure that I once saw a copy of a very old map of Church / Ossy / Blackburn. Coach Road has been there a long, long time and it didn't lead to just Ossy!

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There was an announcement in this weeks observer about the drawing up of a strategic plan for Church. Included was a mention of the Hargreaves' Warehouse and Church Commercial. Nothing specific, just that since they were listed they couldn't be knocked down and would have to be included in the plan.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I do wish they'd get on and do something specific about all the eyesores in and around the area. It just seems to get scruffier and scruffier.

I'd love to see that old map you mentioned Darby. I'm amazed when I look at old maps and photographs just how much things have changed - even within my lifetime there have been so many changes that it's almost impossible to remember how some things once were. We seemed to have far more actual houses in the town centre of Accy in the olden days, not to mention the Market St, Blackburn Rd, Henry St area of Church.

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The one I saw belonged to an old friend who borrowed a copy of it from somewhere. Unfortunately, he lost it!!! I think you may have seen to one at:

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environ...cc/accwest.jpg

That one has the canal in it and the railway. The old one I saw was sometime at the end of the 1600's / begining of the 1700's (we didn't know the real date), and the quality wasn't too good either. The coach road followed tinker brook across what is now Blythes, and came to an old bridge before turning right towards Church Kirk, and then on down the Dunk. There was also a road from Church Kirk towards the Antley via the Stag and onwards towards accy following the River Stink to Bull Brig.

It must have been a fasinating place, and totally unrecognisable form what we have today.

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I can relate to most of that map. I'm puzzled as to why whoever joined up the two pieces joined two obviously unmatched pieces as the bit on the far right dates from much earlier than the majority of the map.

I love looking at old maps and trying to see if I can match them up with what we have today and I agree with you that it must have been fascinating round here in the olden days. If we went back in time we probably wouldn't have a clue where we were.

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It's bad enough when I come back to Accy now!! At least Ossy hasn't changed much!

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Whilst looking at that owd map darby, one thing caught my eye! The stag inn is the only one that is called an inn! The rest have PH on them for public house.Isnt an inn not a public house?

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The OED does not make much of a distinction between the two, except to say that, historically, an Inn sometimes provided accommodation for travellers.

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Perhaps the Stag is the only one that is/was actually called "Inn" at the time. Wasn't the Griffin at Huncoat originally called The Griffin's Head Inn? I can't recall if it has Inn in the title now or not.

I tend to think of an inn being somewhere with rooms for the night and a pub as being somewhere for a drink.

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Does anyone out there know the exact location of Donkey Back in Church?

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

end of church kirk lane across from thorn inn,goes down by side of st james church to the cut.:)

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Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

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Happy, happy days..........

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the photo of dr harbinsons reminded me of the time dr harbinson removed a cyste from my neck with a scapel, i can still hear him saying to my mother ( hold him still mrs mellor this is going to hurt) who says they were the good old days.

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Afternoon. I was just making one of my infrequent Accy Web visits re an "outsider" interest in Church, particularly the Hargreaves Mill on the right angle and the Haslingden Canal connection that never was, when I saw there was a relatively recent comment on this thread. I've not visited Church [or the pie shop] in person for a few months so I presume the Mill remains in the same state?

CH4 repeated a Tony Robinson Doc on the Leeds Liverpool last night. I must have missed it the first time around somehow. It didn't cover Accrington at all only partly the Liverpool and Yorkshire ends and a map of the route at the beginning didn't have the Church "kink" but perhaps that was the original line. It was interesting to see that a switch from the Lime trade to Coal created a similar abrupt change of the route [as at Church] on the way out from Liverpool to Wigan. This all relates to the canal activity in Church that others have mentioned over the years.

I'd also previously missed the comment [post12"] about Dr Harbinsons Surgery [where dhm had a painfull experience] and the nearby pub being targets for demolition. I appreciate they weren't actually in Church from the comment made but where exactly was/is the location and are they still in existence? They look like significant buildings but the thread itself goes back to 2004 and I'm hoping they weren't destroyed.

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Unfortunately the mill hasn't fallen down yet.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Ok Neil-that wasn't quite what I was looking for but thanks [I think:confused:]. Most people seem concerned that so much has been destroyed in Church already which is why I'm asking about the old Surgery. I'm concious though that if it's where you actually live it's probaly a very different experience. perhaps but from the outsider perspective, things look different. In conjunction with the story of the Canal being built and it's rarity Hargreaves is bound to be missed if it's lost [and the pub's impressive or was:rolleyes:].
Dave

"You don't know what you've got till it's gone" Joni Mitchell

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Which pub the eyesore that's the Commercial? That needs pulling down with that old mill. They could have made a proper road junction there if they had change the landscape from 19th to 21st century. I'm all for saving our heritage but we can't live in the past and we don't have the money available to save everything.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Is this what you meant Dave Walsh?

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Yes that's the sort of local view I'm seeking Neil. It does seem that the Commercial at least is a lost cause but many parts of the country would treasure something like the Mill building. I'd imagine that it's the fragmentation of the original community that has led to this situation. It was not overly obvious [to someone like me] that a road junction there would have been better but then I haven't had to live through the major changes and neglect that Church seems to have suffered.

Thanks for the 2006 photo Atarah with the pub and Drs Surgery mentioned at post 12 in 2004. Is there anything left by now? I still don't know where it is [apart from not quite in Church]:confused:. Apologies for my general ignorance.
Dave

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Many parts of the Country down south where they have more money to spend. We don't and we have a lot of derelict buildings that the owners can't sell and can't afford to do anything with. Listing them is often a curse as it makes maintenance harder and more expensive.
We are living in 19th century towns trying to fit in a modern lifestyle , streets built when almost no one had a car and now some terraced houses have 2 or 3. I've had an ignorant woman from up the road parked across my drive sine I came home from work at 7am this morning, I assume it was there all night and she will be told next time I'll have it moved. We need a sensible approach to saving our heritage while improving and modernising our towns at the same time. We have many councillors who are stuck in the past and either don't see the problems with our towns or dare not address them and make the required changes

Oh and a planning department I wouldn't trust to plan what socks they are wearing today

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I agree with that analysis of the problem Neil especially re planning/listing but demolition of your own inheritance isn't a solution. They knocked down the Cottage Hospital in Ramsbottom recently for a housing development which could very easily have been built around it. It's not just a "southern money" argument either. I'm in Sussex currently and there are people here with no concern for the past. The worst example is perhaps Liverpool, now supposed to be on the up, they've been destroying it's Georgian heritage for forty years and even flattened the original "Cavern" for a car park!

I don't suppose YOU know where the Surgery and Pub were/are located do you?

Dave

PS. My house in Rammy is directly onto the street and I've had vans parked on the pavement across the front door so I couldn't get out.:mad: thoughtless! A woman parked her car there one Xmas and my wife invited her in for sherry and mince pies. When the driver asked why my wife said "we always have people round who are close to us at this time of the year" Never saw the offender ;)again

Dave

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I think they were at the bottom of Pearl Street (now Pearl Court), knocked down now for a housing developement.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.75...!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Thank you for that-shame they looked like great buildings!
Dave

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Also for the photo you included. The Google Street Map with Pearl Court shows me that Dr Harbinsons Surgery and the Antley pub were not so far from Church District. The Antley Methodist Church seems to have survived. Coincidentally, it was in the Graveyard of a disused Methodist Church in Bury [Unsworth] where I found a Walsh grave as a part of the chain leading me to Church District!

Incidentally, I do think it's a good that a local Doctor is remembered in this way, even if the memory is painful for some. The building where my doctor [probaly very similar] had his practise in Bury when I was a child in the fifties is still there, at the start of Wash Lane on the right as you head for the Motorway.
Dave

I meant to include all this in the last posting but I keep forgetting there is only ten minutes editing time allowed in this Forum and I'm more used to twenty.
[It's not a complaint Mods]

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Hi Dave Walsh, does this help in anyway? This view is looking towards Church traffic lights.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Bank on it - Atarah will come up with a, pic.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Looks like I got that wrong then, sign on that pic says Newark St.:o

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

I think the photo is of the old Antley foundry offices.
Long gone now.

Edit, sorry, got it wrong, the office is further down.
I should stop posting on line at this unearthly hour.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

This is a big help with my learning curve so thanks all. Like researching family history you often have to revise a first impression. So if I have this right [probaly not] Atarah's photo [same as Tea Leaf back in post 1*] is the Doctors Surgery... now Pearl Court?
Dave

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

No, my mistake sorry. Atarahs pic shows it is at the bottom of Newark street not pearl street, Newark street is one block closer to church.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Sorry if I've confused you gpick. I changed that post from pub to Surgery after looking at the picture of the Antley as a Muslim Centre.
Does that make a difference? Is Pearl Court correct or do you mean it's actually Newark Street?
Dave

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

The Antley Pub (Thwaites House) was on the bottom corner of Newark St, just off the last picture atarah posted.:) It was later supposed to become a muslim girls school,or so the sign said, but fer some reason it never came to pass,

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

Cheers Cashman-that clears it up for me!
Dave W

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

The title of the photo shown is Dr Harbinson. Which one of his surgery's does thios belong too. He had two - one at West End and opne just off Blackburn Rd, he also was in partnership with a "Dr Stewart"

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

My Mum and Dad used to run the Antley, in fact the last they did before my Dad had to retire.

Re: Church's Historic Waterfront
 

A pal of mine took it over in the 60s. It was his first pub. He was shocked to find loads of cockroaches in the cellar and phoned the area manager for advice. It was - find some lads to catch a frog and put it down there. He did and got rid of the cockroaches.