Puzzle for kaytex - Page 10

Retlaw · 11-11-2009, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarah

Retlaw, you have absolutely LOST me on this thread. I do hope you have a good answer!

I have good answer, so has Katex, she just hasn't realised it yet.
How many buildings along the right hand side of Blackburn Rd, as you leave the town center, are still being used for their original purpose.
Atarah you should know when Blackburn Rd was built, if you look at the property frontages you can see the different time periods by the size and type of masonry.

Retlaw.

katex · 11-11-2009, 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retlaw

I have good answer, so has Katex, she just hasn't realised it yet.
How many buildings along the right hand side of Blackburn Rd, as you leave the town center, are still being used for their original purpose.
Atarah you should know when Blackburn Rd was built, if you look at the property frontages you can see the different time periods by the size and type of masonry.

Retlaw.

No, haven't realised it yet Retlaw ...

What I was puzzled about is that in the 1851 census (as recorded by yerself), the Railway was No. 45 Blackburn Road (not street) .. now 84-86. Did they change them ? Must have confused the Post Office..

That Kendall guy had been an Inn Keeper for many years .. he seemed to have a place in 1824 on Lower Fold .. was this on the Bull Bridge area ?

Atarah · 11-11-2009, 19:12

Atarah you should know when Blackburn Rd was built, if you look at the property frontages you can see the different time periods by the size and type of masonry.

Hey how would I know anything about buildings?
I am still convinced you wont win this one!

Retlaw · 11-11-2009, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

No, haven't realised it yet Retlaw ...

What I was puzzled about is that in the 1851 census (as recorded by yerself), the Railway was No. 45 Blackburn Road (not street) .. now 84-86. Did they change them ? Must have confused the Post Office..

That Kendall guy had been an Inn Keeper for many years .. he seemed to have a place in 1824 on Lower Fold .. was this on the Bull Bridge area ?

Thats where a lot of people fall down when they read the census returns, they take the number in the left hand column as the house number, WRONG, read all the writing on the page, that number is the number of places on his route in that area.
Houses and properties did not have numbers in those days, not until 1861. So if in 1841 there were 60 properties in that census takers patch, and at the next census after 10 years of building there could then be double the number of properties in that patch.

Look at Blackburn Rd and any other area as it ws in those years, not as it looks today, read the preamble at the start of each census section, you will learn a lot.
Streets became Roads, Areas and Wards changed,
Postmen in 1841/51 didn't need house numbers, they knew who was who and where they lived. How many people received mail in those days anyway.

You've already answerd the question, it was the SPREAD EAGLE, facing the bottom of EAGLE St. Thats looking South.
Look at the buildings in Warner St, the size of the stone blocks, those were built some time before 1841, then compare the building blocks in other streets and see the difference in stone sizes and surface finish, they change every few years.

Retlaw.

katex · 11-11-2009, 20:36

Here endeth the first lesson. Thank you God (zilla) ... your words... LOL ....

What am I going to do now ?? My quest is ended ... sob, sob ... THE SPREAD EAGLE ... 'tis emblazoned on my heart.

So go on .. what was the name of the establishment that George Kendall owned in 1824 on Lower Fold. ? Your time starts now ...

Retlaw · 11-11-2009, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Here endeth the first lesson. Thank you God (zilla) ... your words... LOL ....

What am I going to do now ?? My quest is ended ... sob, sob ... THE SPREAD EAGLE ... 'tis emblazoned on my heart.

So go on .. what was the name of the establishment that George Kendall owned in 1824 on Lower Fold. ? Your time starts now ...

Don't try to play games with me Katie, you will loose, I've got the name of every pub, hotel, ale house or whatever in my other computer 152 names, plus all the Yards Courts, Alleys and streets that have long gone.
The history of Accrington written by the Rev W.A. Burgess put was never published, (the only copy is in my computer) AND a file containing hundreds of names of places and properties in Accrington and district I've found dating back to 1150.
Then there are the Parish records for Altham,
Christ Church, Church Kirk, St Bartholomews and St James Accrington.

Also the 1841/51/61 census returns for Acc, cross referenced, places, trades & occupations.

So play your little mind games with some one else, it won't work with me.
:

Relaw

Bob Dobson · 12-11-2009, 08:33

I disassociate myself from Retlaw's comment about mind games. He it is who is playing games by starting this thread in the first place with a question instead of saying right at the outset that The Railway pub was called the Spread Eagle. I have doubts about it, thinking there could be some explanation other than his own of what he and nobody else has seen. Show us.
I agree that it feasible that a pub opposite Eagle St would have the word Eagle in its name , but the pub was not there in 1842 and was called The Railway in 1853. Name changes in those days were almost unheard of and this hotel was built to attract rail travellers.

Rev Burgess' writings which Retlaw refers to will soon become widely available in print and on CD in the library. They mostyly refer to evidence obtained from land/propert ownership records and from ecclesiatical/judicial archives of the period 1tth to 18th centuries.

Atarah · 12-11-2009, 09:10

Right Retlaw, you are NOT gonna win this one, by hook or by crook.
For a start I must admit I HAVE NOT looked at the route of the census man, in that area, on the 1841 Census but I will. All books I have read, all talks I have been to, HAVE NEVER, EVER, MENTIONED THE RAILWAY HAD A DIFFERENT NAME.
Thinking sensibly now, when the census man, once he was at the bottom of Eagle Street, why would he cross the road/street, directly in front of him, and start doing the houses from there. Doesnt add up to me? Am just gonna have 5 mins in the TARDIS and try and find out! Tee hee. I WILL WIN YOU YET!
And another thing, that building is never dated from 1841. Never in a million years. As Mr Dobson says, I wouldnt have thought the pub name would have changed when a bigger pub, to accommodate all the "train passengers" was built.

Atarah i.e. Confused.com

jaysay · 12-11-2009, 09:16

Just love his thread and the banter between Retlaw and kate, its fierce

Retlaw · 12-11-2009, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarah

Right Retlaw, you are NOT gonna win this one, by hook or by crook.
For a start I must admit I HAVE NOT looked at the route of the census man, in that area, on the 1841 Census but I will. All books I have read, all talks I have been to, HAVE NEVER, EVER, MENTIONED THE RAILWAY HAD A DIFFERENT NAME.
Thinking sensibly now, when the census man, once he was at the bottom of Eagle Street, why would he cross the road/street, directly in front of him, and start doing the houses from there.
He didn't cross the road. I have a map that shows that Building was there in 1840.
Doesnt add up to me? Am just gonna have 5 mins in the TARDIS and try and find out! Tee hee. I WILL WIN YOU YET!
And another thing, that building is never dated from 1841. Never in a million years. As Mr Dobson says, I wouldnt have thought the pub name would have changed when a bigger pub, to accommodate all the "train passengers" was built.

It was in existence before the railways came to Acc in 1847.

Atarah i.e. Confused.com

You always were.

Retlaw

Retlaw · 12-11-2009, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

I disassociate myself from Retlaw's comment about mind games. He it is who is playing games by starting this thread in the first place with a question instead of saying right at the outset that The Railway pub was called the Spread Eagle. If I'd done that it would'nt have been a challenge for Katex.

I have doubts about it, thinking there could be some explanation other than his own of what he and nobody else has seen. Show us.
I've already shown you, why have you accepted all the other things I gave you and yet reject this.

I agree that it feasible that a pub opposite Eagle St would have the word Eagle in its name , but the pub was not there in 1842 and was called The Railway in 1853. Name changes in those days were almost unheard of and this hotel was built to attract rail travellers.
There was plenty of travellers along Blackburn Rd in stage coaches before the railways came.

Rev Burgess' writings which Retlaw refers to will soon become widely available in print and on CD in the library. They mostyly refer to evidence obtained from land/propert ownership records and from ecclesiatical/judicial archives of the period 1tth to 18th centuries.

The Rev Burgess wrote a lot about the local area,
I'm refering to his history of Accrington and district.

Retlaw.

Atarah · 12-11-2009, 12:53

Retlaw! You're a bad un'
Right - lets have the proof that the so called building was named THE SPREAD EAGLE. You could be mixed up you know. Thinking "location" the Railway Pub (now) is on the corner of a street, but .. way back in 1841 maybe the Spread Eagle pub was on the corner of a street! (before Ellision Street was added to it)
Which blooming map are you looking at???? You COULD be looking at the wrong part of Blackburn Road!
STILL THINK YOU'RE WRONG, NAH NAH NAH NAH NA!

Retlaw · 12-11-2009, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarah

Retlaw! You're a bad un'
Right - lets have the proof that the so called building was named THE SPREAD EAGLE. You could be mixed up you know. Thinking "location" the Railway Pub (now) is on the corner of a street, but .. way back in 1841 maybe the Spread Eagle pub was on the corner of a street! (before Ellision Street was added to it)
Which blooming map are you looking at???? You COULD be looking at the wrong part of Blackburn Road!
Do you think after all these years I don't know how to read maps and plans.
STILL THINK YOU'RE WRONG, NAH NAH NAH NAH NA!

Just because you can't see things as they were, not as they are now, then that makes me wrong, what sort of thinking is that.
You most of all should know how long I've been doing research into Accrington.

Retlaw.

Bagpuss · 12-11-2009, 15:14

I think we are up to the stage where Retlaw IMHO to gain the points should prove what he has written, if this can't be done then there will always be a doubt that his research is flawed.

Retlaw · 12-11-2009, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bagpuss

I think we are up to the stage where Retlaw IMHO to gain the points should prove what he has written, if this can't be done then there will always be a doubt that his research is flawed.

Think what like, if my research is flawed then it is up to you to prove me wrong.

Just because Katex and Dob Bobson can't find the evidence, and don't think the building was there, then tough. What am I supposed to do hold research classes in the library, teach them how to remove their 2009 glasses, and put their 1800 glasses on.
There is an old saying you can't educate pork even if it is boiled ham.
Another one.
Some folk are to green to burn, and to wooden to sink

I don't have to prove anything to you.
I've already given one of the Accy Webbers
proof.

Retlaw.