St. James Church, Church Kirk - Page 3

JCB · 07-02-2014, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47

I posit that religion is not the cause of most wars although close study suggests it generally has a part in promoting and sustaining them. Unbalanced power, causeless hatred and greed are in the main why man went and indeed still goes to war.

I partially agree .

There is no evidence that religion ( whatever is meant by "religion" ) is the cause of all wars .

WW1 and WW2 were not caused by "religion" any more than the Falklands War was caused by "religion" .

Though the English Civil War and the Crusades were examples of wars partly promoted and sustained by "religion" .

DtheP47 · 07-02-2014, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

I partially agree .

There is no evidence that religion ( whatever is meant by "religion" ) is the cause of all wars .

WW1 and WW2 were not caused by "religion" any more than the Falklands War was caused by "religion" .

Though the English Civil War and the Crusades were examples of wars partly promoted and sustained by "religion" .

I did say not the cause of most wars JCB

Philips and Axelrod in their "Encyclopedia of Wars" reckon 7% of wars and 2% of people deaths can be attributed to one religion or another.

35 million in WW1 versus possibly 2 million in the Crusades maybe 100,000 in the three English civil wars small change really when you factor in the deaths during the Mongol rampages across Asia at 30 million and Philips and Axelrod suggest 160 million in the 20th century alone through genocide.

Dave Walsh · 12-12-2014, 19:30

I'm back again having first turned up in June 2013. I was looking for info re tracing my Grandfather and this had led me to Church [District]. Posting [punning] as "Churchgoer" then got me into difficulty right away but I continue to be interested in this under appreciated community and it's pie shop [ok it's an outsiders view]. On the other hand I remember once being laughed at for living in Ramsbottom and now trendy people are desperate to move there! I fully intended to get more involved in local research but it has been difficult to follow up the helpfull suggestions made by Bob Dobson as I have other commitments here in East Sussex.

I've checked in on the Accy Web from time to time however and I'm a bit intrigued. The family research itself threw up a number of strange coincidences [see my Luke Of The Cross thread]. It happened that during one of the times I was in the Royal Thorn in 2013, I heard a chap talking about a tunnel from Church Kirk-he wasn't being taken seriously. I didn't want to butt in but by the time I returned to the bar he had gone and no-one seemed to know who he was or what I was talking about? I'd missed this thread from earlier in the year but blow me, there's the tunnel again!

Here in the S East there is a rumour of a tunnel from the original village pub. As Bob says these stories are legion but here there is a major history of smuggling to account for it. On the other hand, Lancashire has it's Civil War period etc! I didn't really expect to come across another example of Church "Tunnel Vision" but there it was in Accy Explorer's enquiry.

As for the Church Kirk premises itself, even Philip Larkin acknowledged that a religious building seems to have a "compressed" atmosphere and depth regardless of the inhumanity that can results from fanatical faith-something we've largely outgrown in the UK over a number of centuries. It is true that Church Kirk is very impressive but more on the inside than the external architecture I would suggest. I do like the way that the Churchyard is bordered by the Canal however.
Dave W

Bob Dobson · 12-12-2014, 20:34

Walshy - forget tunnels. Concentrate on names. Start a fresh post in the Family & Friends section on here, giving it a heading bearing your grandfather's name .....Welcome back.

Dave Walsh · 16-12-2014, 19:41

Thanks for that Bob. I'm hoping to take a mult-pronged approach including contacting one our two previous responders directly. Time and distance are a problem but I may even seek help from a professional as well.

I now know more re my Grandfather [James] than I ever did before [ie nothing] and it's the Accrington related James [further back] and then Luke [of the Cross] that are a focus. Interesting but perhaps not that surprising there should be two James's in the line but when I named my own Son Jonathan, I had no idea there was another one of those as well

I hadn't thought of opening another thread but that may be an idea I suppose. Thanks for your interest. I did get some maps from the very nice chap in Chesire you recommended. Best wishes for the season to you and anyone else viewing.
Dave
Bexhill-on Sea

Dave Walsh · 19-12-2014, 11:41

This post can be deleted in due course [if it appears]. I've had a pm from
a Forum member [Accyexplorer] to say he posted here after my message on the 16th. I can't see that post from my end. I've sent two replies by pm to Accy that didn't go. I seem to be able to receive pms but not send them [they don't appear in the sent box]. I then tried to pm Moderator Mick but that message didn't go either

Can anyone help.

I wouldn't put this message on the thread if I could think of anything else to do.
There doesn't seem to be any other problem and my computer is fine on other Forums. I've also tried a laptop where I had to formally log in again with password etc but that didn't work.

cashman · 19-12-2014, 11:58

Sent yeh a PM dave, dunno if it will work or not? the info that is.

Dave Walsh · 19-12-2014, 13:03

Have to say I'm getting more confused. Thank you Cashman and Mick the Moderator for unexpected quick response. I've tried replying via E-mail to Mick and CM. When I accidentally replied to a Do Not Reply "You Have A PM-mail re cashman it seemed to go through as a pm-unless I'm going daft-because he sent a pm back? Maybe it's me but I don't think so

As far as I can tell my PM's are still not going, either as a response from the received message or separately via the left hand menu. I now have two panels each saying received messages 5 and one showing sent messages 0.

Perhaps this will sort itself? Unfortunately I have to dash out but I'll try again after 4pm. Please check here for more desperate messages. Better if I'm just pdealing with a Mod as it's hard work jumping about

Thanks guys!

Explorers post is still missing but that's a side issue now.

Dave Walsh · 19-12-2014, 13:20

Apologies just realised that Mick's e-mail was just the automatic one-only Cashman has been in touch [one way] so I will try to pm him again again.. then back later on -hopefully
Dave

Dave Walsh · 19-12-2014, 16:00

UPDATE Sorry to take up space on the thread MODS but this has been a bit of a problem. Thanks to Cashmans help, I've been testing again. Replies are now being recorded [one missing]. It seemed to be connected with the bottom miscellanious options menu which had a tick on "parse links" only. Ticking "save copy in sent folder" seems to work and I now have 2 items there but I'm not entirely convinced it's all ok. Can mods check it at your end at all?
Computers-don't you just love em

Dave

Bob Dobson · 19-12-2014, 20:20

This is doing my blood pressure no good. Hope it gets sorted. Meanwhile - do put your search for family onto the appropriate section, Walshy.

Dave Walsh · 19-12-2014, 21:22

Hello Bob. Sorry to put you under pressure but it's nothing like my experience today! I had a routine check in Rammy two years ago and the chatty nurse suddenly went quiet. As she ran out of the room I said,"It's going up even more now now!" Measured elsewhere it's normal-an even greater mystery than the tunnel in Church.
Dave

Bob Dobson · 20-12-2014, 08:44

You suffer from white coat syndrome.

Dave Walsh · 20-12-2014, 12:35

Yes that's a part of it but I exaggerate a little. It can get raised as I also suffer from a lot of other things, including computers

. At least I can pm now so I will be able to contact people re Church Kirk without wondering if I am talking into the void. It often feels like that when they are right in front of me as it is

.
Dave

thindle · 14-04-2016, 09:50

Well, St James Church Kirk Church has been let down , and I really mean let down. I am a Roman Catholic and also know Sacred Heart was left, then torn down,but I realise that this church meant a lot to the people of Church. Even the people who live there now. I also know that people move away but all these folk loved the place it was the oldest church especially the tower. Does anybody care? No they don't. Oh yes everyone rallied round for St Johns Accrington a relatively young church in comparison just because it was claimed for being the church of the Pals. Whilst I admire what these soldiers did for everyone of us. We now have monuments here, buildings there, even cafes named after the Pals, and Medical Centres. St James Church Kirk , no one wants to know.
After the reformation . Catholics had to use Church Kirk until they were allowed to have their own churches again. So, even Catholics like me would treasure it.
Come on now, don't let it fall into disrepair and then have to be demolished like Sacred Heart.