The Coppice 'Gun Carriage'

[Bob Dobson]

We need someone of the right calibre in the Town Hall to fire off this excellent suggestion.

[cashman]

Gotta say i like the idea. Although if they scrapped the replica barrel idea n had a new un made, The grand opening ceremony could fire a shell at the Clown Hall. pmsl

[SoulManic]

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

We need someone of the right calibre in the Town Hall to fire off this excellent suggestion.

Clever choice of words there, but actually it's not a bad idea at all.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

If I'm not mistaken those 3 Cannon/Cannons were put on the Coppice from Oak Hill Park, when the War Memorial was built, Retlaw.

Earlier than that!

At last here is my pic, four cannon/s on the Coppice, from a postcard postmarked September 1912. Printed/sold by Constantines Stationers of Accrington.

Here is also another link to the guns in Corporation Park. They came from the Crimean war - is the same true of the Accy cannons?

http://www.cottontown.org/page.cfm?p...0&language=eng

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by susie123

Earlier than that!

At last here is my pic, four cannon/s on the Coppice, from a postcard postmarked September 1912. Printed/sold by Constantines Stationers of Accrington.

Here is also another link to the guns in Corporation Park. They came from the Crimean war - is the same true of the Accy cannons?

Explosion in the Park

If you look at the size & width of the wheels & the carriages, they are ship or garrison cannons. The horse drawn cannons used in the Crimea had diferent carriages and limbers. If you want to see a realistic view of cannons used on ships see the film Captain & Commander when they do gun drill, dammed good film, based on the life of a real Captain & Commander.
Note the eye on the breech end of the cannon for the recoil ropes to reeve through
Retlaw.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

If you look at the size & width of the wheels & the carriages, they are ships cannons. The cannons used in the Crimea would have diferent carriages and limbers. If you want to see a realistic view of cannons used on ships see the film Captain & Commander when they do gun drill, dammed good film, based on the life of a real Captain & Commander.
Note the eye on the breech end of the cannon for the recoil ropes to reeve through
Retlaw.

Very interesting, Retlaw. I wondered what the eye was for. Any idea of the source of these guns?

BTW do you mean Master and Commander for the film? Never seen it but keep meaning to.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by susie123

Very interesting, Retlaw. I wondered what the eye was for. Any idea of the source of these guns?

BTW do you mean Master and Commander for the film? Never seen it but keep meaning to.

Probably released from storage and distributed round the country for displays, when they started producing breech loading cannons, those old cannons could be very dangerous, because of the metal they were made from.
You would be surprised how many WW1 small arms were in storage when WW2 broke out, more than enough to equip all the Home Guards in the country
Yep that probably the same one, its a real cracker of a film, especially for one like me who likes the realism to be accurate in any films relating to battles on land or sea. Another good film, very realistic and true to life, is "The Trench" a WW1 film starring Daniel Graig, as the Sergeant in the front line trenches.
Retlaw

[katex]

Originally Posted by susie123

BTW do you mean Master and Commander for the film? Never seen it but keep meaning to.

Saw this ship when I was in San Diego a few years back. It is now used for events .. weddings/corporate/children's, etc.

[susie123]

Reading a bit more about this, Peel Park and the Coppice were opened to the public in September 1909 HBC's website says: On the Coppice there used to be four guns which were donated by William Peel in 1910. They overlooked Peel Park and Peel's Accrington House. This would tie in with the postcard picture's date of 1912 when the cannons would have been a relatively new attraction.

Oak Hill Park was opened in May 1893 and the Friends of Oakhill Park website says: The mayor presented the two cannons which were installed in the higher position of the park now occupied by the War Memorial.

This suggests to me that the cannons in Oakhill Park are not the same as the ones on the Coppice although I can't be certain. I haven't been able to find any mention of what happened to the ones in the park.

[SoulManic]

Originally Posted by susie123

At last here is my pic, four cannon/s on the Coppice, from a postcard postmarked September 1912. Printed/sold by Constantines Stationers of Accrington.

Thanks for letting us see the postcard. I'm absolutely stunned by the sheer size of these things and I think they look very impressive standing there overlooking the town. It's a real shame that they had to be destroyed.
I took some photos of the remains of the carriage yesterday and when I find out how to get them off my phone and onto my PC I will put them up on here.

[SoulManic]

Here are the photos of the carriage in its current state. The first thing to note is that it is upside down.

Picture 1. The square cut-out would be for one of the axle blocks. The large scallop cut-out would be either decorative or for weight reduction and was between the two axles along the bottom. The small block hanging on its side shows the cut-out for the trunnion on that side of the cannon.

Picture 3. The end of this side which would have had a matching axle block cut-out has gone but the the large scallop cut-out is there.

Picture 4. This is probably the front block with a scallop cut-out on which the barrel would rest at its lowest elevation.

I agree that it was probably a ship's cannon and to get a better idea of what it looked like (it's difficult to see detail on the postcard picture) take this link to an 1823 French ship's cannon.
french1823

[MargaretR]

Now that you have advertised that some scrap iron is lying in a publicly accessible place, it won't be there much longer.

The pixeys were armed with a stihl saw at dead of night when they removed a metal gate from a field boundary near my home.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by SoulManic

Here are the photos of the carriage in its current state. The first thing to note is that it is upside down.

Picture 1. The square cut-out would be for one of the axle blocks. The large scallop cut-out would be either decorative or for weight reduction and was between the two axles along the bottom. The small block hanging on its side shows the cut-out for the trunnion on that side of the cannon.

Picture 3. The end of this side which would have had a matching axle block cut-out has gone but the the large scallop cut-out is there.

Picture 4. This is probably the front block with a scallop cut-out on which the barrel would rest at its lowest elevation.

I agree that it was probably a ship's cannon and to get a better idea of what it looked like (it's difficult to see detail on the postcard picture) take this link to an 1823 French ship's cannon.
french1823

If you take another look at the picure of the cannon in Corporation Park, you will see a lkeness to your carriage bits on the Coppice.
The one advertised as a French cannon, has a different recoil eye, and the carriage is nowt like your bits, or the one in the park.
Retlaw.

[SoulManic]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

If you take another look at the picure of the cannon in Corporation Park, you will see a lkeness to your carriage bits on the Coppice.
The one advertised as a French cannon, has a different recoil eye, and the carriage is nowt like your bits, or the one in the park.
Retlaw.

I did say that the French cannon picture was to get a better idea of what it looked like, not that it was exactly the same. The French one has square axle blocks and scallop cut-outs on the underside between the axles similar to the Coppice remnant. It also has stepped tops to the sides which can be clearly seen on the postcard of the Coppice cannon though this feature is no longer visible on the remnant.

[SoulManic]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Now that you have advertised that some scrap iron is lying in a publicly accessible place, it won't be there much longer.

Well, apart from the fact that there is very little metal on the carriage, since they have only managed to drag this thing about 100 yards in 70 years I can't say that I'm overly concerned.