Why we give?

Guinness · 06-03-2014, 22:44

Graham Jones MP: 49 per cent of people think that society is too cynical about those who give says ?Why We Give? report

Why we give... quite a few quid has gone into this research..could have saved them the money..

It's because someone is rattling their tin in the foyer of the supermarket and you chuck your loose change in...did it myself at Tesco this morning...have absolutely no idea what the charity was.

But thinking about it, just where does a charity stop being a charity and become a business with relaxed governance?

Case in point..many years ago as a 14yr old I had a job doing the cancer and polio round. Subscribers had a card with 4 numbers relating to football teams, if the number of goals scored by these teams was the highest, they got a share of the payout, the lowest got a booby prize too. It was 1s 6d per week to play..of this I got 3d, there was a bloke that collected off me, and a bloke that collected off him to pay too...if you subtract the prize money there was probably 6d going to the charity..thats the equivalent of 2 or 3p actually going to the charity.

Move on to today, we have charities setting up shop on our high streets, staffed by volunteers and a paid manager. Volunteers are, in general, blue stocking middle class women with time on their hands, unemployed strivers looking to add to their cv or people with learning disabilities/mental health issues given menial 'jobs' to massage the county council figures so they can say 'look how good we are at re-enabling'

We have charities that can 'undercut' bids from the private sector, that can pay better wages, offer more training, can attend more useless meetings and tick the appropriate boxes....simply because idiots like me chuck a few quid into a bucket after I've bought my weeks supply of liffey water. Thing is, charities cant make profit, so friend of mine who works (paid) for a charity, got a bonus at Xmas that the bankers would be proud of..just to balance the books!

Meanwhile, the taxes I pay that are supposed to better society are spent on MP's expenses, bankers bonuses, twitter Google Page Ranking, facebook Google Page Ranking and bloody stupid research like this one???

All the time there are cuts to those in real need..just proves to me that Tory idealogy and the thoughts of chairman Graham are entwined and would make lttle difference at the polling booth!

dotti34 · 07-03-2014, 00:22

I agree with you, Guinness, that it is a travesty only a very small amount of money actually makes its way to the charity it was originally destined for after all the expenses (of which there should be very little or none!) are taken out. I do not give to such organisations. However, I do take umbrage at your somewhat derogatory description of volunteers.

I personally do not fit into any of the categories you mention – and nor do any of my friends and acquaintances, however we have all spent many hours volunteering in various capacities. I normally would not mention this, I am not looking for a pat on the back for doing something that gives me great enjoyment, but I felt I had to respond to your posting.

Why do we volunteer? Maybe (and without meaning to offend you, perhaps this is something you won’t understand) we enjoy giving and though we can’t give much in the monetary sense we can give some of our time to help others.

Volunteers are the life-blood of many organisations. No person needs to be bored as there is always some place that needs you, someone who will benefit from your help. Perhaps some volunteers do fit into your description but the ones I know get enjoyment out of helping others, and knowing you are appreciated and that your input is important is reward enough.

Maybe you should try it one day.

Accyexplorer · 07-03-2014, 06:32

I agree with dotti,your description of volunteers is somewhat derogatory.
Their are 1000's of volunteers all over the world (that don't fall into your categorisation) so your experiences with them are statistically irrelevant

Margaret Pilkington · 07-03-2014, 07:23

We all have our own motives for giving.
Mine is having poverty in my past. I am not talking about the poverty of today.
I am talking about having nothing in the house to eat......being cold, because we had no coal.
I remember it. It is ingrained in my being.

Charity should be like prayer - private and meaningful. Charity is personal.

The large charities have become big business. How much would one of those TV ads cost. You know the ones I mean...those that ask us for £2 a month. How much of this goes to the needy and how much to pay for the CEO's lavish salary of 340K per year.

Charity shops perform a social function - they recycle stuff, they mean that people who have limited funds can buy something which is 'new' to them.
As for the volunteers - in my experience they are not just the blue stocking, middle class women with time on their hands. I have been served by young people, older people, people of ethnic origin....all of whom are getting something out of giving their time....whether it be something to include on their CV or just the joy of knowing that your time is making a difference. Some will volunteer because they feel a need to give something back(maybe they have been helped in the past and feel it is their duty).

To some people knowing that they made a difference is reward in itself.

cashman · 07-03-2014, 07:27

Volunteers the world oer, in the main are great selfless people, as i have witnessed.Don't matter a stuff what strata of society they come from.

Accyexplorer · 07-03-2014, 07:45

The big ones have become big businesses.If you donate to the big ones you have to accept they will use some of your money to keep their profiles up as they are national charities.i do hold some respect for RNLI though.
But I'd say pick a more localised charity, food bank or donate to a local church that provides assistance in the community.I'll never give to Oxfam etc because of their overheads, their large office block, Directors/Managers salaries (and their motors).
Any charity that uses any of following are guaranteed not to get one round coin off me.These include (but are not limited too) guilt trip TV adverts, mass mail-outs, unsolicited phonecalls,cold calling.
I use to volunteer for a small dog rescue they relied mostly on funding raised in the summer at car boots and fairs etc,they also/rarely had a couple of people leave money in their wills too, but they can't afford to advertise for donations like these big charities do. All the workers were volunteers and any money went straight towards vet fees and (very) occasionally the animals food, although most us feed our foster dogs out of our own wallets.

Ps If any of you philanthropists are feeling generous I'm excepting payments

Guinness · 07-03-2014, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dotti34

I do take umbrage at your somewhat derogatory description of volunteers.

I personally do not fit into any of the categories you mention – and nor do any of my friends and acquaintances, however we have all spent many hours volunteering in various capacities. I normally would not mention this, I am not looking for a pat on the back for doing something that gives me great enjoyment, but I felt I had to respond to your posting.

Maybe you should try it one day.

Sharp rap on the knuckles accepted. It was a sweeping generalisation of volunteers, I know there are those that 'want to give something back'. I apologise.

However, this still doesn't take away from my argument that in a modern civilised society there should be no need for charities and that the charities of today are little more than businesses with tax breaks taking advantage of the volunteer ethos.

Margaret Pilkington · 07-03-2014, 09:34

In a perfect world, there would be no need of charity...but the world is not perfect and there are people who are greedy, there are people who are lazy....but I think that those who do stuff for charity are to be applauded for recognising that they can help - and do so by putting their back into it.

dotti34 · 07-03-2014, 10:18

Guinness, it takes a big man to apologise - so, speaking on behalf of volunteers world-wide, your apology is accepted. Sorry if I came on a bit strong - hope the rap wasn't too hard on your knuckles. Have put the cane away again now.

However, I do agree with you on the other points you make. I also agree with all of Margaret's comments.

Less · 07-03-2014, 10:28

Well, I wonder where he got the 49% from?
Meanwhile I think I'm one of the cynical ones, a quick copy and paste to prove it:-
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/1...-post3665.html

I'm not sure if I've got my slogan right!

Accyexplorer · 07-03-2014, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

Well, I wonder where he got the 49% from?
Meanwhile I think I'm one of the cynical ones, a quick copy and paste to prove it:-
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/1...-post3665.html

I'm not sure if I've got my slogan right!

Have a clique point like

Less · 07-03-2014, 12:04

I found the site in the link most interesting, well put together and full of interesting information.
So much so, I have added it to my favourites and will be looking in regularly.

When I went to the home page I found a large number of links to other sites, however even though he has been a member of a certain site for many years and does post often, a link to it seems to have been omitted.

1/ Can you guess which site?
2/ Can you suggest a reason why the omission?
3/ Can you see him correcting this omission in the near future?

Severe Karma points and likeys from me for the best answers.

Sunflower49 · 11-03-2014, 18:57

It's the things you mention that prevent me from giving. I'm just not happy in paying for something if I'm not fully aware of what it is.

I volunteer my time instead, but in the past I have done both.

I have been a charity shop worker in the past, and I still shop at them now-so in a sense I am giving my money in that way.

Guinness · 12-03-2014, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunflower49

It's the things you mention that prevent me from giving. I'm just not happy in paying for something if I'm not fully aware of what it is.

I volunteer my time instead, but in the past I have done both.

I have been a charity shop worker in the past, and I still shop at them now-so in a sense I am giving my money in that way.

But isn't that the whole problem with 'modern charity'.

Cameron has always banged on about the 'big society' where people help each other. (I got news for him, people have ALWAYS helped each other, long before his catchphrase vote grabber, people have always been 'Big' on helping others, especially amongst us working class). We've all cut our elderly neighbours lawn, picked something up from the shops for them, checked on them from time to time etc..etc..

Some charities are worthwhile, problem is too many others are aided and abetted to the extent of job destruction. Some of them, like the RSPCA, have become political (anyone tried taking a stray to them recently?), others use your money for crazy research or to undercut private sector job creation, many of these charities are creating so much money that they are paying bonuses to their paid staff just to balance the books.

Camerons argument is that there is no need for society to pick up the bill to ensure that people are cared for, that we should all take responsibility, he's not going to lower your taxes for the money he saves if we do, because thats reserved for his bankers, backers and other associated leeches to society. He's never going to cut his neighbours lawn because his nearest neighbour lives a couple of miles away and has a gardener. He's ok with the rise of charities, because he doesn't have to pay for it from the money you give him in taxes, you do..you pay your taxes and then you pay again for a charity to do something that your taxes were meant to pay for.

You are being altruistic, and fair play to you, BUT, although you are giving your time and spending your hard earned money to support the charity by buying from their shops, you are still complicit in this governments attempt to turn many paying jobs into volunteer positions, you are complicit in helping Cameron make cut after cut after cut to the detriment of many of the people these so called charities portend to support.

Charities spring up daily, it's not really that hard to become a charity, it's a tad harder to become a registered charity, but big business with an array of lawyers can easily overcome the restrictions placed by the charity commission.

Just a thought if a business indirectly runs a charity and then donates to that charity what kind of tax breaks that business gets on that donation?

One thing I've gained from the Graham Jones blog that I originally posted is that I will be extremely careful which charities I donate to in future, I will not just chuck my loose change into any old bucket in Tesco, and I will stay the heck away from any charity than can afford mainstream advertising or high street shops!

Sunflower49 · 12-03-2014, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinness

But isn't that the whole problem with 'modern charity'.

Cameron has always banged on about the 'big society' where people help each other. (I got news for him, people have ALWAYS helped each other, long before his catchphrase vote grabber, people have always been 'Big' on helping others, especially amongst us working class). We've all cut our elderly neighbours lawn, picked something up from the shops for them, checked on them from time to time etc..etc..

Some charities are worthwhile, problem is too many others are aided and abetted to the extent of job destruction. Some of them, like the RSPCA, have become political (anyone tried taking a stray to them recently?), others use your money for crazy research or to undercut private sector job creation, many of these charities are creating so much money that they are paying bonuses to their paid staff just to balance the books.

Camerons argument is that there is no need for society to pick up the bill to ensure that people are cared for, that we should all take responsibility, he's not going to lower your taxes for the money he saves if we do, because thats reserved for his bankers, backers and other associated leeches to society. He's never going to cut his neighbours lawn because his nearest neighbour lives a couple of miles away and has a gardener. He's ok with the rise of charities, because he doesn't have to pay for it from the money you give him in taxes, you do..you pay your taxes and then you pay again for a charity to do something that your taxes were meant to pay for.

You are being altruistic, and fair play to you, BUT, although you are giving your time and spending your hard earned money to support the charity by buying from their shops, you are still complicit in this governments attempt to turn many paying jobs into volunteer positions, you are complicit in helping Cameron make cut after cut after cut to the detriment of many of the people these so called charities portend to support.

Charities spring up daily, it's not really that hard to become a charity, it's a tad harder to become a registered charity, but big business with an

array of lawyers can easily overcome the restrictions placed by the charity commission.

Just a thought if a business indirectly runs a charity and then donates to that charity what kind of tax breaks that business gets on that donation?

One thing I've gained from the Graham Jones blog that I originally posted is that I will be extremely careful which charities I donate to in future, I will not just chuck my loose change into any old bucket in Tesco, and I will stay the heck away from any charity than can afford mainstream advertising or high street shops!

All good points Mr Guinness. I am a charitable person as I am sure many people on this forum are... I'll help people if I can, and you're right-I'm not unique. People, generally are quite willing to assist others if they can.

The RSPCA have their place, I know of people and animals they're assisted..-But...not sure if you're aware but I ran an animal rescue centre for some time, a couple of years ago. I was there when the local RSPCA facilities were full..They usually are, it seems. Their rules on rehoming are a little too strict, in my opinion-coming from an animal lover to the extreme that's saying something.

EG to get a dog, you have to have an enclosed garden. Why?If you're available to walk a dog twice daily and have a large house to keep him/her in,why need a garden?Dogs are stolen from gardens. Just an example.

Cameron does have skewed views-not even outdated ones, just a biased view.
I'll never say I'm altruistic, though-I don't really believe in altruism. People are usually out for themselves in some way or other. If you help someone, it makes you feel good, or viable-or that you're DOING some good. It's part of human nature for many.

I shop in charity shops because I feel It's better than buying new, I'm not a fan of consumerism or waste....And I'm from Yorkshire

If I do a little bit of good in the process, or at least do not contribute to the 'bad' , then I feel better (again , not altruistic).

I agree about the chucking of loose change. I have never done that.

And also, I do not like how begging on the street is frowned upon for the homeless-yet many so called 'charities' seem to find it totally acceptable, even though in neither case do we really know where our money is going. As charities are not 'allowed' to make a profit, what if they do?

Large bonus, anyone...

Also RSPCA 'big wigs' are known to be on quite a large wage so I've read.

And with 50% of the animals in their care being put to sleep...
(My case is having a rest, now)....