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Old 18-04-2009, 20:14   #1
Caz
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Your thoughts on this please.

I'm doing a course on Equality and Diversity, and I have just come accross this during the process.


"Many of the ways that people are not treated equally in everyday life are due to power structures, stereotypes and prejudices that existed when the UK was a very unequal society. These are changing so the way people treat each other also needs to change.

In the past there were many jobs that women were not allowed to do and men and women were treated differently, for example a female teacher was not allowed to get married and keep her job, but a male teacher was. Female teachers therefore had to choose between being married and teaching and were stereotyped as unfeminine because they weren't married and didn't have children.

The unequal treatment of female teachers (not allowed to get married) affected their behaviour (did not get married) which reinforced the stereotype of them (unfeminine, not suitable for marriage). As teaching at one time was one of the few jobs that females could do, people associated educated/working women with being less feminine. This stereotype lasted for a long time."

The bit I have highlighted is the one that puzzles me. One wonders how far back in time they are going, because I can remember in the fifties a teacher at my infant school marrying and keeping her job. (Hannah St Infants...Miss Anson became Mrs Miller)

Would be interested in hearing from people older than myself (55) if they have any knowledge of this being the case.
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Last edited by Caz; 18-04-2009 at 20:18. Reason: Added something
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Old 18-04-2009, 20:26   #2
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

The Civil Service used to have a policy whereby a woman had to cease work on marriage.
I don't know when this practice ended, but when I started work in 1959, there was an option still availabe to women - ie the option to take a Marriage Gratuity and resign, or stay at work as a married woman.
This option was eventually withdrawn in 1977
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Old 18-04-2009, 20:44   #3
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

this senario has no bearing whatsoever on todays thinking.
Times have changed and many women are in positions that they would not have been in years ago.
I am still of the opinion that women should marry men, that is what nature created us for.
Teachers in my opinion should be married and gain experience of family life.

In my early days I had experience of Nun's and the doctrine they preached hurt me very badly, so much so that 60 years on, I would not give them the time of day.
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Old 18-04-2009, 20:45   #4
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR View Post
The Civil Service used to have a policy whereby a woman had to cease work on marriage.
I don't know when this practice ended, but when I started work in 1959, there was an option still availabe to women - ie the option to take a Marriage Gratuity and resign, or stay at work as a married woman.
This option was eventually withdrawn in 1977
So how would this "marriage gratuity" affect women in the long term? EG pensions.

If they chose to work after marriage, were there any downsides?
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Old 18-04-2009, 20:47   #5
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
this senario has no bearing whatsoever on todays thinking.
Yes we know that.

Just going back in time to what people thought then.

Seems ridiculous now.
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Old 18-04-2009, 20:56   #6
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz View Post
So how would this "marriage gratuity" affect women in the long term? EG pensions.

If they chose to work after marriage, were there any downsides?
I don't know what year the practice of having to finish work ended.
The gratuity was a 'left over' remnant of that.
Until 1977 any woman whose chose to take the gratuity on marriage lost her pension earned to that date, but could carry on working.
There were no other 'downsides' to it - you could start earning pension rights again after marriage, but you probably wouldn't be able to fit in a full 40 years worth to get the maximum.
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Old 18-04-2009, 20:59   #7
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

So basically what you are saying Margaret, is that any pension rights earned before marriage were disregarded?. They had to start again?
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:06   #8
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz View Post
So basically what you are saying Margaret, is that any pension rights earned before marriage were disregarded?. They had to start again?
Yes - it was like being able to cash in any pension earned to the date of marriage and it was calculated on the length of time worked before marriage
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:06   #9
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Only three years older than you, Caz, but Mrs Brown, my first ever teacher at St Peters in 1956 was, as her title implies, married. As for the civil service, my mum worked in the tax office (in what is now Platts Club), from the late 50's/early 60's, so the policy must have ended earlier.

As you say, seems stone age now.
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:06   #10
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz View Post
I'm doing a course on Equality and Diversity, and I have just come accross this during the process.


"Many of the ways that people are not treated equally in everyday life are due to power structures, stereotypes and prejudices that existed when the UK was a very unequal society. These are changing so the way people treat each other also needs to change.

In the past there were many jobs that women were not allowed to do and men and women were treated differently, for example a female teacher was not allowed to get married and keep her job, but a male teacher was. Female teachers therefore had to choose between being married and teaching and were stereotyped as unfeminine because they weren't married and didn't have children.

The unequal treatment of female teachers (not allowed to get married) affected their behaviour (did not get married) which reinforced the stereotype of them (unfeminine, not suitable for marriage). As teaching at one time was one of the few jobs that females could do, people associated educated/working women with being less feminine. This stereotype lasted for a long time."

The bit I have highlighted is the one that puzzles me. One wonders how far back in time they are going, because I can remember in the fifties a teacher at my infant school marrying and keeping her job. (Hannah St Infants...Miss Anson became Mrs Miller)

Would be interested in hearing from people older than myself (55) if they have any knowledge of this being the case.
I'm not older than you, I'm 31 so it's not something I personally remember but I do know that female teachers did have to stop teaching when they got married.

It was before your time, Caz, in the 1800s and early 1900s

I don't know when it ceased to be the case though.
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:08   #11
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris View Post
Only three years older than you, Caz, but Mrs Brown, my first ever teacher at St Peters in 1956 was, as her title implies, married. As for the civil service, my mum worked in the tax office (in what is now Platts Club), from the late 50's/early 60's, so the policy must have ended earlier.

As you say, seems stone age now.
On the contrary - I took a marriage gratuity when I married my 2nd.
I cashed in my pension rights in 1978 - (so I was wrong about 1977) - I did it just before it was abolished.
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Last edited by MargaretR; 18-04-2009 at 21:11.
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:13   #12
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR View Post
Yes - it was like being able to cash in any pension earned to the date of marriage and it was calculated on the length of time worked before marriage

So if you carried on working, pension continued as normal?
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:14   #13
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

I took the CS Marriage Gratuity when I married in 1962. I worked for a further 2 years until I resigned when I had my first child. Resignation was not obligatory but the Maternity Leave was only 6 weeks and there was no part time working so, combined with a dearth of child-care, it was very difficult to be a working mother. Most mothers didn't work until their children were in school, usually secondary school.

My mother was also a civil servant but she had to resign when she married my dad in 1932. I have a feeling married women were not allowed in the CS until WW2 when they were indispensible.

I went to West End School when I was 3, 1946, and my teacher, Miss Greenwood, married and became Mrs Green while I was in her class. Perhaps the requirements of wartime had changed the rules for teachers as well as civil servants.
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:23   #14
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caz View Post
So if you carried on working, pension continued as normal?
You had to start a pension again from scratch
Pensions are calculated on the number of years worked
To get the maximum amount possible, you had to have 40yrs that counted.
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Old 18-04-2009, 21:27   #15
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Re: Your thoughts on this please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MargaretR View Post
You had to start a pension again from scratch
Pensions are calculated on the number of years worked
To get the maximum amount possible, you had to have 40yrs that counted.
Unbelievable, now.

Just shows how someones knowledge of certain things can have shortcomings, just by a few years age difference!

Cheers Margaret
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