Harper and Sames foundry 1868?

sibi · 18-12-2012, 17:50

hello to you all,
While doing the old family tree bit, it turns out my great great great grandfather (William Thomas Sames) was part owner in an iron foundry in Accrington which went bust in 1868. It was called HARPER & SAMES Oswaldtwistle Accrington.
I dont know anymore than this really but would be interested in ANY more info. the address, who was Harper, why it went bust, was 1868 a bad year for foundries, what did it make, etc etc.
I realise that there will probably be a tesco express or McDonalds on the site now but just maybe someone has a picture.
happy christmas. simon

Bob Dobson · 18-12-2012, 19:25

Best place to look is in the books by Mike Rothwell. With that name, I suspect that the factory was in Ossie, so look in 'Industrial heritage: a guide to the industrial archaeology of Church & Oswaldtwistle' The book is not indexed. Well worth reading - one of a series covering local towns.
If in Accrington Library, seek the surnames index in the wqooden filing cabinets, though 1868 is a bit early

If a Lancashire library member, your card allows you access to the Blackburn Standard on-line. Search 1850-1900 using either name as a keyword. Also search the London Gazette where you will find details of the bankruptcy.

1860s was the time of 'the cotton famine' - no work for mills or foundries because of it. PM me with your email address if you need further help after tyrying the above.

Retlaw · 18-12-2012, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibi

hello to you all,
While doing the old family tree bit, it turns out my great great great grandfather (William Thomas Sames) was part owner in an iron foundry in Accrington which went bust in 1868. It was called HARPER & SAMES Oswaldtwistle Accrington.
I dont know anymore than this really but would be interested in ANY more info. the address, who was Harper, why it went bust, was 1868 a bad year for foundries, what did it make, etc etc.
I realise that there will probably be a tesco express or McDonalds on the site now but just maybe someone has a picture.
happy christmas. simon

Possibly a bit too early for any photographs, photography was in its infancy as regards street scenes back then.
Some one may have done a pen and ink sketch, as Dobbo suggests your best bet is Mike Rothwells books.

Tealeaf · 18-12-2012, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibi

hello to you all,
While doing the old family tree bit, it turns out my great great great grandfather (William Thomas Sames) was part owner in an iron foundry in Accrington which went bust in 1868. It was called HARPER & SAMES Oswaldtwistle Accrington.
I

I don't know if this may anything to do with the noble quest in search of your ancestry, but Sames is a relatively rare name. However, many years ago - I believe the building may still be there - there was a public house on the edge of a notorious part of Blackburn called the Barbary Coast. It's name was Sames's Vaults and I can assure you it was a dark and forbidding place, the clientele being the last dregs of Blackburn (and Ossy's finest few). Some of us did venture in there and lived to tell the story. It is possible that Mr Cashman may have more to say. Anyway, there may be a connection between the ale house and the foundry.

Atarah · 19-12-2012, 00:12

Not an awful lot in Mike Rothwells book unfortunately.
EAGLE WORKS SD734 271
A minor foundry, established in 1862 by Haworth & Harper. In 1868, following the bankruptcy of W. T. Sames & James Harper, the works was converted to chemical manufacture by W. E. Bickersike & A. C. Bowdler.

Atarah · 19-12-2012, 00:24

There is also this information available

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../3419/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../1932/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu...s/669/page.pdf (this one mentions he is a Wine and Spirit Merchant)

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu...s/477/page.pdf

sibi · 19-12-2012, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

I don't know if this may anything to do with the noble quest in search of your ancestry, but Sames is a relatively rare name. However, many years ago - I believe the building may still be there - there was a public house on the edge of a notorious part of Blackburn called the Barbary Coast. It's name was Sames's Vaults and I can assure you it was a dark and forbidding place, the clientele being the last dregs of Blackburn (and Ossy's finest few). Some of us did venture in there and lived to tell the story. It is possible that Mr Cashman may have more to say. Anyway, there may be a connection between the ale house and the foundry.

Many thanks for this. A great response. I think the pub youre talking about was at 4 church street, Blackburn and is now a sports bar called arena? If so then yes there is a connection. William Thomas Sames (he of the foundry) is the son of William Sames b1803 d1865 who lived at and ran the pub. I think WTSames inherited the money in 1865, bought the foundry 1867, went bust in 1868 and was dead in 1869 a few months after his wife died. I dont know why it was called Sames Vault though even into the 1970s? why was the pub so bad and why the barbary coast? cheers and always grateful for any snippet whisper or gem.

sibi · 19-12-2012, 08:13

hi thanks for this, sounds like just the right time to buy into a foundry when there isnt any work about.....explains why he went bust then. Thanks also for the tips on the books and where to look. cheers.

sibi · 19-12-2012, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

Best place to look is in the books by Mike Rothwell. With that name, I suspect that the factory was in Ossie, so look in 'Industrial heritage: a guide to the industrial archaeology of Church & Oswaldtwistle' The book is not indexed. Well worth reading - one of a series covering local towns.
If in Accrington Library, seek the surnames index in the wqooden filing cabinets, though 1868 is a bit early

If a Lancashire library member, your card allows you access to the Blackburn Standard on-line. Search 1850-1900 using either name as a keyword. Also search the London Gazette where you will find details of the bankruptcy.

1860s was the time of 'the cotton famine' - no work for mills or foundries because of it. PM me with your email address if you need further help after tyrying the above.

hi thanks for this, sounds like just the right time to buy into a foundry when there isnt any work about.....explains why he went bust then. Thanks also for the tips on the books and where to look. cheers

sibi · 19-12-2012, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Possibly a bit too early for any photographs, photography was in its infancy as regards street scenes back then.
Some one may have done a pen and ink sketch, as Dobbo suggests your best bet is Mike Rothwells books.

hi yes of course youre right about the age of photography and i agree that there wouldnt likely be a contempory photo but there might be pictures of the foundry from the late 1800s or even 1900s. perhaps someone had the foresight to take a picture before it got bulldozed which undoubtedly would have sadly happened. cheers again.

cashman · 19-12-2012, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibi

Many thanks for this. A great response. I think the pub youre talking about was at 4 church street, Blackburn and is now a sports bar called arena? If so then yes there is a connection. William Thomas Sames (he of the foundry) is the son of William Sames b1803 d1865 who lived at and ran the pub. I think WTSames inherited the money in 1865, bought the foundry 1867, went bust in 1868 and was dead in 1869 a few months after his wife died. I dont know why it was called Sames Vault though even into the 1970s? why was the pub so bad and why the barbary coast? cheers and always grateful for any snippet whisper or gem.

The Sames Vault was as Tealeaf says on the Barbary Coast, The general area was rough and ready, frequented by rogues and prostitutes and the like, Thing is though i always found em friendly enough, went down yon regular and never had no trouble, Whilst yeh probably wouldn't take yer mum or yer wife, it was always a damn good night.

good luck with yer search sibi.

sibi · 19-12-2012, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarah

Not an awful lot in Mike Rothwells book unfortunately.
EAGLE WORKS SD734 271
A minor foundry, established in 1862 by Haworth & Harper. In 1868, following the bankruptcy of W. T. Sames & James Harper, the works was converted to chemical manufacture by W. E. Bickersike & A. C. Bowdler.

Many thanks indeed for this. I really do appreciate it. I can only guess at what happened. Do you have an address at all please. cheers again. si

Bob Dobson · 19-12-2012, 08:44

In recent times, Ray Smith of ther Blackburtn Local History Society has compiled a CD, published by the Lancasghsire family History Societyy, about hundreds of people whose namnes have entered into the pages of Blackburn's histypory. Drop a line to Bb library, or see the LFHHS website to order. Blackburn library may have a photo of the man and the pub

sibi · 19-12-2012, 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarah

There is also this information available

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../3419/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu.../1932/page.pdf

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu...s/669/page.pdf (this one mentions he is a Wine and Spirit Merchant)

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issu...s/477/page.pdf

these are all fantastic, thanks so much. I knew he went bust in 1868 but didnt know he had done it before in 1865. consistent if nothing else!!!

Barrie Yates · 22-12-2012, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

frequented by rogues and prostitutes and the like, Thing is though i always found em friendly enough, went down yon regular and never had no trouble, Whilst yeh probably wouldn't take yer mum or yer wife, it was always a damn good night.

good luck with yer search sibi.

Hey Cashy, a few of us used to go in there after Tech College - admit that I may have been a bit of a rogue (in the nicest possible way), but never experienced any problems in there.
As we are talking of the late '50s memories are faint - whichpub/bar had the piano on the wall?