Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

Royal Marine Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher, 24, from Solihull is to be awarded the George Cross, which ranks alongside the Victoria Cross as the highest decoration for bravery.

On patrol in Afghanistan to try and uncover a Taliban bomb making factory, Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher hit a trip wire, wired to a grenade. Fortunately grenades do not explode immediately the pin is pulled but there is a delay of several seconds. It was this delay that not only saved him from at best serious injury but gave him time to cover the grenade with his body to protect his patrol. As he hit the deck he was able to roll over on his back over the grenade and wait for it to explode. What saved his life and prevented a serious injury that was limited to a bloody nose and a severe ringing in the ears was his rucksack full of equipment. Question – no flack jacket?

According to the Guardian “the only difference between the VC and the GC is that the GC is awarded for acts not in the presence of the enemy, but the level of heroism required for the two honours is the same.” http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/23/military.afghanistan

As I understand it there is only one highest bravery award and that is the VC. The GC is the equivalent highest award to civilians as in the case of the peoples of the island of Malta. I discover today that the GC is also awarded to military personnel for actions not in the face of the enemy. So the booby trapped grenade was not in the face of the enemy? You can’t get much closer to the enemy than a grenade a couple of yards away.

Royal Marine Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher’s extremely brave action deserves the VC and nothing less.

I’ll bet that had the patrol been led by Lt. Snodgrass and it was he who dived on the grenade he would have been awarded the VC. But the MOD palms a squaddie off with an inferior bravery award.

But then what do we expect from this excuse for a government. It cannot even supply the troops with the tools to do the job and lives are being lost because of it.

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

Deserves the VC for this ... no question about it.

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Agree with every word you say there, Jambutty. A very brave lad who does indeed deserve the VC.

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Didn't the Captain of HMS Conqueror receive a medal for sinking the Belgrano? If that was classed as an act of bravery, then Lance-Corporal Croucher most certainly deserves the highest award your country has to offer.

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The MOD never cease to amaze me, how can they possibly say this was not in the face of the enemy??? He should get the highest award there is!!

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Yes, Jambutty, I agree. The lad was in a war situation, even if war hasn't officially been declared, and I always believed the GC was for civilians such as, as you say, the people of Malta. I don't really think it's an inferior award, in essence, but I do think it's inappropriate in this case. He's a soldier who saved the lives of his comrades and he should be honoured as a soldier.

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agree totally the guy should be awarded the V.C. also agree that if he carried a "Rank" he would have been, the ordinary squaddie counts fer nowt as the shortage of equipment has shown once again, despite all the promises.:(

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

Well said Jambutty.
He was in the face of the enemy and saved many lives with his brave actions and should be awarded appropiately with the highest honour there is.
This useless goverment can't even give honours out correctly!

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

Depends very much on how the citation reads.
I agree, this lad deserves the VC.
Citations are constructed by the man's Commanding Officer after taking witness statements.
These citations are presented to an awards commitee and it is they who decide on the award.

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

Probably but it wouldn’t have been the VC, GC or even MC. Just yet another campaign medal. I doubt if the crew got anything though.

If Royal Marine Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher had been a yank he would have been showered with “Purple Hearts”, got a substantial promotion and got a ticket tape reception in New York.

Slightly off topic but now can people see why we don’t want street corner yobs and petty criminals conscripted into the armed forces? They just ain’t good enough.

The VC also comes with a pension for life and the right to receive salutes from every single serving member of the armed forces and that would include Charles and co and the upper echelon of the armed forces.

Imagine General “Sit behind a desk sending men to their death” or Admiral Pugwash or Air Marshal Biggles having to salute a squaddie. There would be a major outbreak of apoplectic fits.

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I have always thought like that, why should the forces be stuck with morons who have no intention of obeying any orders?
Back on topic the lad deserves the highest award there is!!

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Bernie...........The army would not be stuck with morons who would not take orders......Don't obey..then Glasshouse....that is the worst experience anyone could encounter.....no lounging about in TV rooms.
Going to the toilet....double....Square bashing....two hours non stop.
I know of no one who would exchange a comfy prison for an army correction unit.

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I still don't see it as the answer but that is just my opinion. We need lads and lasses who join the forces by choice not because they have been told to.

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I have to agree to a certain extent but how the hell are we going to deal with the 'morons' who have no regard whatsoever for society.
A smack on the wrist does not work.
There are many menial tasks in the army which would give these morons the crediblity they deserve.
Give them a shovel and watch the segs grow and have that as a badge of rank.
Toilets in a field are priority and the hole that has to be dug will take the sails out of any butch moron who thinks he is better than his peers.

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OK! Maybe I’m being a bit dense here, but how direct can a grenade exploding underneath you be?

Do they expect the enemy to stick a Kalashnikov up his nose before calling it “coming under direct fire”?

This award is political. Can’t have a squaddie getting a VC.

Royal Marine Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher executed the ultimate act of selfless bravery by deliberately putting himself between his squad and an exploding grenade to shield his mates from injury or death.

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

I agree that this guy should have recieved the VC, but if you read the article it says why there is a diffeance, VC is awarded for gallantry up and above the call of duty, under enemy fire, the GC is awarded for he same reason, but not under enemy fire, but to me a hero is a hero, and this chaps act was very selfless and with no thought for his own safety

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

I am definitely being rather dense but how can the MOD claim that an exploding enemy grenade is not under fire?

What surprises me even more is that this incident happened way back on the 9th February 2008 and this is the first that we hear of it.

BBC NEWS | UK | Hero tells how he saved comrades

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

no ya aint being dense,its under fire- end of. shouldn't surprise ya though he was n oik not a Rank.:rolleyes:

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According to the news this morning the soldier triped a booby trap grenade, whilst on ordinary surveillance duties, not in any kind of fire fight

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

During the Jeremy Vine show today Royal Marine Lance Corporal Matthew Croucher was interviewed and he stated that he and his 3 buddies were on patrol, the objective of which was to check a compound that was suspected of being a bomb making ‘factory’ and to disable it.

So whatever you heard had got it wrong. The patrol was on a seek and destroy mission.

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

Well what I heard was suposed to be a quote fro the guy, he gave the reason for his actions was that he felt giulty for putting his mates at risk by stumbling on and arming the grenade

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

what he did was above and beound the call of duty an he should be awaded the VC, it shouldn't whether he set the trap off or not he put his team mates before himself that to me is pure bravery give the lad the respect he deserves.

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I'm not disagreeing with you JB I too think he should have got the VC, I'm merely saying what I heard and passed it on.

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

So the officer killed whilst trying to defuse an UXB during the last war shouldn’t have been awarded the VC? But then he was an officer.

Do some research on the VC (start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross) and you will find out that it is down to the award committee (the proper name of which escapes me for the moment) whether an act of bravery is worthy of an award and which.

I did and I was surprised to find out that VC did not command a salute from all ranks but it was only tradition, albeit a tradition that no one objected to and was in fact proud to salute a VC.

It does not mention that the VC can only be awarded to those who are in ‘direct’ action with the enemy.

In any case what is direct action? What do you mean by ‘there on hand’? How far away is ‘on hand’? The modern rifle can kill at over half a mile. That can hardly be called ‘on hand’. A special snipers rifle can double that range. The old Lee Enfield rifle could kill at one mile. Of course you had to be a darned good shot with it. I could hit a three feet square target at one thousand yards so imagine what a real marksman could do. For all the patrol knew the Taliban could have been a few hundred yards away just waiting for them to get closer if the booby traps didn’t work.

The patrol was in a war zone whether bullets were flying or not. Shrapnel from a grenade certainly was.

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

To be fair, I dont think the poor lad will be bothered which one he gets, thankfully he came away with his life.

The lads shouldnt be there, not our war. Or until top brass can work out what the hells is doing anyway. How many times do our lads have to fight to win a town against the taliban, give it back to the 'normal' people, only to have to do it all again

Ludicrous

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

I don't know about the first part. Altho' no doubt thankful that he came away with his life, the VC is the VC ... it doesn't matter that the George Cross is given for the same selfless acts of bravery as is the VC, whatever the authorities say it is still not the Victoria Cross. Ok, he survived; but he didn't think of his own skin when he risked his life for his comrades ... he didn't analyse the situation, he just did it ... in uniform, in a war zone, and it was an enemy device; I mean, how much clearer can it get!

And on the second part I fully agree ... 88 Canadians have lost their lives in Kandahar Province, and the Taliban are still there, just as strong, and just as determined.:mad:

Re: Beyond The Call Of Duty
 

This very brave lad could have died, and had no idea when he made the selfless choice to jump on the grenade that his bergan would absorb the blast.

VC at the least, Knight the lad as well, he is far more deserving than most of the fools we award kighthoods to, hell people wanted David 'bloody'Beckham to have one not that long ago, he's not a hero.

This lad shows the sort of commitment and honour our Boys and Girls have in our forces and what does our government do, s@@t on em', how dare they.
Remember it is this government who broke the conenvent with our soilders, we should treat them with the respect they so rightly deserve.
I would be proud and honoured to meet this brave man, who is far braver than me, he is a credit to our nation and one that the youth should be looking upto rather than the over paid yob's we have who call themselves footballers etc...

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I totally agree, Willow.

As some of you may have gathered I spend as much time as I can in Malta. The island (it's tiny, only 17 X 9 miles) was awarded the George Cross for the bravery of its people during WW2 when they were bombed, straffed and bombarded by first the Italians then the Germans for at least 4 years. They remained loyal to Britain, took everything that was thrown at them and did their damnedest to help the Royal Navy and the RAF to maintain a presence there and keep fighting. They succeeded.

The G C meant a great deal to the Maltese and it still does. It is an award on a par with the V C but it is, essentially, a civilian award. The V C should, in my opinion, be awarded to any military personnel acting in a "war zone". The awarding of the G C, to this particular person, bewilders me.