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mothernature 06-10-2008 01:46

How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Whilst visiting with a neighbour today, several people came round to have a game of chess with her son (who's 40) and the conversation got around to how the Government is trying to stop the long term sick claiming certain benefits. As most of the visitors & her son are alchohol dependent I found it infuriating that they claim they can't be forced into any type of work. I asked them why this was so and how they could be so sure they wouldn't have their benefits stopped/reduced. Their response was unbelievable. All of them said when required to see the doctor at their 3 yearly check up to see if they are fit to return to work, they would claim they could do any job as long as they had a drink. According to them, Health & Safety regulations would be breached and that's how they get to stay on benefits. Apparently benefits cannot be reduced and if the Government does try to stop their benefits they have the right of appeal. Most of these people haven't worked since leaving school 25 + years ago, nor do they have any intention of doing so. I'm absolutely livid. How can these scroungers and shirkers get away with it?
:s_fmad:

Benipete 06-10-2008 02:19

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
The answer is quite simple,because they are on incapacity benefit they are not classed as unemployed or indeed as job seekers.
This gives the impression that the jobless is less than it is.In fact the total of people on incapacity more or less equals the drop in unemployment - But what the hell it looks good to the numptys that work and balances the books.Not a political party thing more the civil service who's job it is to make the powers that be look like the powers that be.
The bottom line is all the manufacturing base has now gone overseas to pay for pensions for private investors like me and sod the rest.

I do agree these people should be made to work but what can they do.


At least they are keeping the pubs going.:bleedht::signbeer::drink:

SPUGGIE J 06-10-2008 08:29

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
The problem is though that sometimes the govenment wants to take people of the list and usually end up targeting those least able to work. A friend of mine is in a wheel chair and they had him down as being able to do any kind of work despite his chair. When he asked how he was to get around at work or even get there they reckoned it was not there problem. Where they get these ideas from beats me because despite very good bus services he has to either get a taxi or if on a bus have a chaparone thus in his eyes taking away his independance.

As it stands there is a points system for these people and the interviews are done by an independently appointed "lacky" who has to get as many of the benifit as possible. Ok there is a right of appeal but once that dreaded letter arrives they stop all the incapacity payments and you have to apply for others ie job seekers income based or if over 60 and yes they do take people of the benefit at that age, pension credits. So some poor sod can be without any money for weeks.

There are those that play the system and always will and will sit back and enjoy the fruits of the working populations efforts. Now I know that there is a points system for the jobcentre staff witch low and behold targets for normal unemployed people. This system gives one point if someone is signs of and gets a job within 6 months but 10 points for over 6 months. The result being little or no help if unemployed less than 6 months but shed loads if out of work more than 6 months. Sadley though there will be some that after 6 months will find other ways to keep benifits coming in ie incapacity.

Right a guy has 3 kids and a wife who does not work and lives in a council house works as a labourer for a local building firm but looses his job. He signs on and gets cash for himself his wife and the kids and as rent and most of his council tax and water is paid he is close the same level of income as when working with the little benefits he claims. After 6 months of getting no were job wise he plays the system for incapacity and gets more money and is better of than being employed. The wife who was not working finds a nice cash in hand job for extra cash. The outcome is that some that are using/abusing the welfare system are better off than someone putting in an honest days graft.

To the point about alcoholism to me that is self inflicted so why the hell should I as a tax payer have to whatch them getting legless on cheap booze payed for by my taxes?

Neil 06-10-2008 09:01

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J (Post 638420)
To the point about alcoholism to me that is self inflicted so why the hell should I as a tax payer have to whatch them getting legless on cheap booze payed for by my taxes?

So what should we do with them?
Lock them up in institutions until they are cured?
They should not be given extra money for booze as people have stated happens before.

SPUGGIE J 06-10-2008 09:19

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 638428)
So what should we do with them?
Lock them up in institutions until they are cured?
They should not be given extra money for booze as people have stated happens before.

Yes if that is what is required though it would be a bigger burdon on the tax payer. Its an easy way to cash for some is drink along with the other scurge of drugs.

mothernature 06-10-2008 11:39

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 638428)
So what should we do with them?
Lock them up in institutions until they are cured?
They should not be given extra money for booze as people have stated happens before.


Maybe one idea would be to insist anyone claiming to be an Alchoholic/Drug User be sent to a prison type environment where they are supplied with 2 basic meals per day and a limited amount of their particular poison. In exchange for this they would have to do household chores in said environment. If they want to have money for their personal use, they would have to earn it by doing extra household chores. If they really want to kick the habit, help could be provided in-house.Also they shouldn't be given the freedom to come and go as they please. This would probably give the abusers' families a bit of breathing space as well.
Now how many of these shirkers do you think would actually use this type of facility?

lancscat 06-10-2008 13:11

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
infuriating isnt it,people who self inflict get help,people who are helping themselves and trying to get on in life through hard work get nothing GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

SPUGGIE J 06-10-2008 13:31

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
The problem will always be separating those that are in genuine need from those that dont. Never mind boozers n drug addled cruisers what about those who rely on depresion as a reason to claim benefits?

AccyLass 06-10-2008 13:32

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
It was on Jeremy Kyle one morning last week when I was at the gym

A young, perfectly able bloke sat there and said he gets paid to sit and drink!
He has no intention of getting a job while the tax payers are made to pay him money

He then went onto say... take my money away... and I will have no choice but to get a job!

To me, that said it all

Jeremy Kyle just sat looking at the camera pleading the government to stop this blokes benefit!


No digs about watching Jeremy Kyle thanks:p

mothernature 06-10-2008 13:48

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J (Post 638502)
The problem will always be separating those that are in genuine need from those that dont. Never mind boozers n drug addled cruisers what about those who rely on depresion as a reason to claim benefits?


And aren't there a lot of people using depression as an excuse. I know someone who gets DLA because of Anorexia, another gets it for mild Angina (although she hasn't had an attack in years). Her neighbour who was severely burnt in a house fire has no hand use (they are fixed into a permanent fist), is often deprived of his benefits because they say he can work. Why do the government never challenge what I would class as minor ailments?

SPUGGIE J 06-10-2008 13:57

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
How and what would you define as minor ailments and under what criteria would they be judged?

polly 06-10-2008 14:13

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mothernature (Post 638478)
Maybe one idea would be to insist anyone claiming to be an Alchoholic/Drug User be sent to a prison type environment where they are supplied with 2 basic meals per day and a limited amount of their particular poison. In exchange for this they would have to do household chores in said environment. If they want to have money for their personal use, they would have to earn it by doing extra household chores. If they really want to kick the habit, help could be provided in-house.Also they shouldn't be given the freedom to come and go as they please. This would probably give the abusers' families a bit of breathing space as well.
Now how many of these shirkers do you think would actually use this type of facility?

This is not a new idea, it was done years ago and was called The Workhouse.
It was of course abused and people including children were often treated no better than animals
Maybe the system could be reformed in amore humanitarian manner?

SPUGGIE J 06-10-2008 14:20

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by polly (Post 638530)
This is not a new idea, it was done years ago and was called The Workhouse.
It was of course abused and people including children were often treated no better than animals
Maybe the system could be reformed in amore humanitarian manner?

Oh goody a large wheel in a shed with reprobates ton provide cheap lecky now that will go down better than melting chocolate over.........

mothernature 06-10-2008 14:24

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J (Post 638520)
How and what would you define as minor ailments and under what criteria would they be judged?


I'm not a doctor but if anorexia or mild angina are not causing too many problems why get full benefits. Anorexia is life threatening only when the sufferer loses so much weight they have to be forced to eat. It generally doesn't stop them doing normal everday tasks. Angina can be a major health problem, so can measles, mumps or any other disease/illness. It's the person who it is affecting that suffers the various complications that could arise, so a qualified specialist is the one who should judge how good/bad things really are.

SPUGGIE J 06-10-2008 14:29

Re: How Will The Government Tackle This?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mothernature (Post 638536)
I'm not a doctor but if anorexia or mild angina are not causing too many problems why get full benefits. Anorexia is life threatening only when the sufferer loses so much weight they have to be forced to eat. It generally doesn't stop them doing normal everday tasks. Angina can be a major health problem, so can measles, mumps or any other disease/illness. It's the person who it is affecting that suffers the various complications that could arise, so a qualified specialist is the one who should judge how good/bad things really are.

The persons used for assesments are not specialists. even general practitioners but someone who likes to meet targets. Anorexia can lead to other medical problems that prevent that person being of any use that and the energy levels are less than that of a tesco value zinc carbon battery.


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