Bigoted or free speech
 

Although all over the media & press the last couple of days there's been no comment on here about Jeremy Clarksons latest & to date "most offensive" & heinous derogatory exploit.

The supposed use of the word "nigger" in an episode of Top Gear from 2013, but causing a furore only now after its being highlighted & brought into the spotlight as stated by the press (daily mirror I believe broke the story), mainstream television news & public forums etc.

The debate, as it is rages on from both sides. those in defence of free speech & right to use a language to its full potential & those that would castigate this as blatant bigotry & casual racism!.

I assume that the lack of comment is due to folks fearing to raise the issue because the finger would be pointed & they'd be tagged as being either a racist bigot or a lefty PC whiner, dependent on the stand point taken, who knows?

However controversial some subjects seem, I do believe that they need broaching, bringing out into the open & then being honestly discussed, all this without without recourse to infantile name calling & derogatory belittlement.

Now then, do I have any takers for open debate? Or will this thread, like so many of the injustices & unpleasantries that people face daily be quietly sidelined & hopefully forgotten in the hope that it may just go away by itself?

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Your a Brave man Dave....
Okay well having watched the offending episode when it was broadcast, having reviewed the Daily Mirrors footage and being a reasonable well adjusted adult (by my standards), I feel there was nothing for him to apologise for.
Its all the usual Bull.... by the gutter press. Sadly the anti racist brigade have grabbed it.

Interestingly, this week I received a BNP leaflet, in my name as I am sure others have, with much more inflammatory rubbish than anything Jeremy or anyone on TV have ever said, I wonder if that is why they never show The Dam Busters any more on TV because Guy Gibson's dog was called Nigger.


But of course if someone is wishing to be insulted there is nothing you can do.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

If he was being a bigot hasn't he got a right to be even if it doesn't make him popular?

I have been castigated on this very forum for using the 'N' word, I was using it as a reference to the colour brown, I explained that in electrical terms it was used as reference to brown coloured wires in the auto industry, it's many a year since I was involved in that side of electronics, I wonder what they are forced to say as an alternative these days?
:confused:

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

What he was reciting is an old nursery rhyme......so is someone going to go through all the nursery rhymes and censor them? It seems crazy to me(but then I am from a generation who didn't take offence at inconsequential things) that people can get so hung up on such things when there are other things going on in the world that we should be appalled at.
Unless this word is being used in the context of racial abuse.....like directing the term to a particular person.....(that is racial abuse) anything else isn't .

I am not a fan of Jeremy Clarkson, but I don't think he had anything to apologise for.

I will now wait for my castigations.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

it was also used to name a shade of boot polish

green i think it was :D

odd thing is i have black american buddies who i chat with on skype and play games online against and as long as i call them a lucky nigga and not a lucky nigger they are more than fine with the word

hell it was only a few weeks ago teh press were slating clarkson for saying the bridge had a slope on it (which it did) in reference to how badly they had built a bridge to cross a river but because one of teh people he had worked with side by side for days and into the night happened to be brown and on the bridge the press said he was using an old term for blacks slope to be racist.I think it fair to mention that neither clarkson,may or hammond beat or whipped these black people while building the bridge or at least not on camera

all i can say is if your the type of person who looks for things to complain about on other peoples behalf then you are guarenteed to be what i like to call a complete funt

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

It appears it's a generational/age issue (and isn't that also a bone of contention too?) from the comments I've seen. I admit I enjoy top gear so may be slightly biased in my views but I concur with the majority of folk, the word supposedly used can be seen as offensive when directed as a personal insult to an individual, but it's contextually offensive to my mind. So in generic usage as in a nursery rhyme which the Clarkson case claims to be or in colloquial usage such as books & culture it's just another aspect of our language, admittedly with some negative overtones but at the end of the day just another word.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

dont think ba ba green sheep is allowed either


damn it looks like the PC mongs have got at it as i typed ....

did you spot the word that is still used today yet frowned upon

i still call my brother one when he messes up although i usually go with spaz or spacker they roll off the tongue easier

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

My parents were disappointing bigots they got me a Gollywog for my birthday, Good grief mum said I, I'm seventeen I'd rather have an Asian blow up doll! yes it was a few years ago.
http://www.bearpile.com/user/493/1117161483b.jpghttp://kpbs.media.clients.ellingtonc...d38a6025dcea0e

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I think it's more context/intent, than the actual word.
The word “nigger” isn't racist. A word can't be racist can it?
(My opinion is that the only way a word is racist if it is used with racist intent)
What happened to words like "sambo"?
Jezza may of mumbled the word "nigger" 2yrs ago, is it "news"?, hmmm
It's worse that he was forced to give a apology imho :rolleyes:

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

One place I worked a young apprentice started he was a 6' buck Ni, erm really black lad, his parents had a sense of humour, they had called him Sam!
:hidewall:

He was a really grand lad as well.

We got a visit from Health and safety, she heard us call for him, after he left she said it hardly seemed appropriate because she thought we were being racist. How are we being racist the company owner asked? That is his name!

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

And have I read or heard it wrong? That it ended up on the cutting room floor...it was never aired?
Or that he stopped himself from actually using the word because of its implications, and the possibility that it may offend(although that has not stopped him before).
when something like this furore hits the headlines, it always makes me wonder what bit of news it is to distract us from? Something far more important, and worthy of getting our drawers in a twist about.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I miss my collection of Robertsons jam golliwogs. There was no talk of racism then.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I'd also like to point out that there's also a difference between the word "nigger" and "nigga"."Nigger" is offensive to black folk, for example:
Most youngsters today have at least one racist grandparent.
Except me, cause grandma says racism is a crime.....and crime is for erm (sorry couldn't think of a better context)...
..whereas "nigga" is used between black folk all the time as a non-derogatory term, I think they use it in place of words like "bro" or "man".
Attachment 40177

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Who says it is?

I bet it's not black folk, just white folk trying not to offend.

Strangely the more they try, the more they offend every race.
:golly:

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I think we both know, the 'problem' lies in folks personal morality, political correctness etc.
It's (generally) accepted in today's society (well at least amounts blacks), that "nigga" is used as non-derogatory.
It is, however, generally understood amongst the very same aspects of society that when non-blacks use the word it is meant in some sort of derogatory manner.
Not that I think your bothered but, my thoughts are that if folk are offended by a 'word' it's tough luck.
After all I'd like to look at every race as equal,as I'm sure you would?
But if black folk are allowed to use the 'N' word and other races aren't, then that divides us,are am I missing something?

:hidewall:

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I have been called, whitey, honky, Gringo and many, many other names while working with people of many different races, was I offended?

No, why? because I was working with people that use these terms as a matter of fact because to them that is who I am.
The same people weren't offended when I used their racial description back to them, why? Because to them that is exactly who they are.
If you are working surrounded by Muslims in a Muslim Country it doesn't pay to feel offended as those you are working with don't mean any offence.

Only here do we have problems because Nanny State knows best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8WPg9VA08U

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

All semantics, it doesn't matter about the spelling, it's not written down when spoken so a difference in letters or spelling is irrelevant! If the term is seen as offensive (irrespective of spelling) then it should be condoned by all regardless who's using it!

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I'm with George on this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUvdXxhLPa8

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Spoken like a true 51st state, puck chasing, hoser ;)

The Racial Slur Database

Then again...there's always an alternative viewpoint :p

Shakesville: "Canadian" as Racial Slur

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

sorta wrong nigga is what the black amercans formed from the word nigger as a slang word for nigger and originates from gang slang and was meant as an insult towards each other when addressing rival or disliked blacks and they have words they use when refering to whites such as honky and a few others i dont recall.Eventually nigga became varied in its use from derogatory to friendly addressing of each other just like when they call someone a punk ass little bitch to a friendly greeting such as " sup bitches"

or so my nigga online gangbanger pals tell me

mind you they call me nigga but i do tan easy so its an easy mistake i guess

its all in how its used not the word its self.Reginald D Hunter got into trouble for using the word nigger and he is one and is proud to be one and righly so. Using it at a kick racism out fo football event may not have been teh best idea as teh white folk got mighty upset about it lol

someone at the bbc saw an opportunity to earn some cash by selling the out takes to teh press i bet and knew because it was clarkson some up tehir arse idiot would jump on the bandwaggon and demand he be fired.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Yes they do. The Dam Busters is shown many times on TV. And last night, Escape From Alcatraz was shown on Channel 4, in which the phrase "I hate niggers" was used. And in one if the Die Hard films, which is regularly shown on TV, Bruce Willis wears a sandwich board, bearing the same phrase.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Take off, eh.;)

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I used to love the seventies comedy Love Thy Neighbour about bickering next door neighbours,one black, one white. I doubt it will ever be shown again as the banter would be seen as offensive these days. Thing is, from what I remember,the black guy always came out top making the white guy look stupid and bigoted. I don't think many people would be offended but, the PC police would never 'allow' us the choice to watch it again.

Bigoted or free speech
 

You can find it on utube

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Thanks Less, that's my bank holiday afternoon sorted.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

its very rare the person complaining is the person who would be effected by the term yet its rare it happens the other way around like when a black man hears a slang or bad word refering to whites been used.Its pretty much a white thing where someone gets up in arms on someone elses behalf.

many many blacks attended bernard mannings shows and they wernt going there to protest at his jokes they went knowing damn well if bernard saw them he would directly take them on one to one and take a pop at them using words .I dint say offensive words because the person who was directly the target of his words wasnt offended therefore they wernt offensive yet despite the black man going to the concert,not been offended and having a good time some moron the next day usually white would be demanding bernard be arrested for been racist.Occassionally you got the odd black person somehow linking bernard to slavary in the old days but no one really paid attention to them.

my conclusion is that black people are better at taking jokes,are more laid back and dont get a kick out of attracting attention to themselves butthat theory does exclude a simialr shade that will shoot a gun in the air and burn flags if somone so much as draws a specific cartoon image yet alone use a naughty word

as reginald d hunter said in his stand up , if i bump into a black man in teh dark and say sorry i didnt see you there am i been racist ?

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

No, it's only racist when you ask him to smile so it doesn't happen again :eek:

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Your right there. It's usually someone taking offence on someone else's behalf. How patronising is that? Condescending dogooders are more offensive than the so called racist remarks themselves. People need to sit back and chill out a bit and stop fanning the flames of hatred.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

michael jackson once sang it dosnt matter if your black or white

pitty there wasnt a line in there about been over 18 but he was half way there bless him

ps:

its ok to throw a jackson joke in as he has an album out or out soon so relevance is covered :-)

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

What's new? Jim Bowen was sacked or asked to resign by the BBC over ten years ago for calling someone a nig-nog on his radio show.
As Jim said:

He added: "Sadly, when a 65-year-old is employed he brings with him a certain amount of baggage from his era and sadly sometimes this doesn't sit well in 2002.
"The expression I used would identify with the youngsters who were last to be picked in a football team or perhaps weren't the sharpest knife in the box."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2307607.stm

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

jim davidsons career was demolished over night because he refused to bow down to the PC brigade

i forget what creed he poked fun at but he continues to do so very well infront of our troops abroad on teh camps in warzones

what a horrible man eh

well the people with guns like him so ill agree with the ones given the job of protecting our freedom of speech not some halfwit with a guilt complex

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

My primary school head teacher used to jokingly call us 'nig nogs' when we had done something daft. It was just a gentle rebuke and had nothing to do with race. Jim Bowen would be about the same age as him, it was taken out of context and, I think, different regions have different sayings that may sound a bit iffy to people from different areas.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Anyone care to go down to Notting Hill and ask a group of black men directions along the lines of "Hey, can any of you niggers show me the way to such and such a place?" I think you would soon find out whether or not it is an offensive term. Please let me know how you get on.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

It's certainly the context regarding the "N word", "nigga" or "nigger" is pretty common in music too (especially black music).
I don't think freedom of speech includes the freedom to cause someone of other skin pigment alarm,harassment or destress.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

you would get on the same way as if you ran down notting hill shouting hey all you pedophiles can you give me directions

most of the people reading this thread get it

you dont appear to be one of them

ps: to get back on to the issue clarkson didnt call anyone a nigger he merely used the word

although it was perfectly acceptable for a movie to do this and it was a box office hit

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...8084894717.jpg

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

There are so many words in the English language that it is not necessary to use offensive ones. I personally don’t think there is any need to call people by names that may offend, irrespective of the colour of their skin, where they come from, or their beliefs, but irrespective of this I agree that it does depend on the way something is said as to whether it can be classified as truly racist or not.

Like for instance being called a Pommy b****** can be very derogatory but can also be almost a term of endearment (honest!) – depending on how it’s said or in what context, or even who says it - and believe you me I have heard this expression many times while living out here. Funny though, somehow this expression never seems to be classified as racist (even when used in a bad way) – or is it just that us Poms are thicker skinned than most, or maybe can take it with a pinch of salt. Brought up tough (especially Lancastrians!!!).

However, I do dislike it when a person says ‘I’m not racist, but….….’ and then proceeds to be just that.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I think it is because we are a bit of all three Dotti. My hubby says they can say all they want about him as long as they don't go in his back pocket

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

But you just wouldn't do that because you would be directing that name at them in a personal context, and we have already established that in such a context, it is racial.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

There is just as much bigotry aimed at the indigent population of this country by incomers.
We just don't recognise it because we do not have a grasp on the ethnic languages.

I once worked with a midwifery sister on an ante natal ward(she was a devout woman and had worked as a missionary in Pakistan and Bangladesh), she also,looked like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

A Pakistani man was visiting his wife and calling all the staff some very derogatory things(though we didn't know it because we did not understand the language).....this midwifery sister went up to him very calmly and politely and started to talk to him in his own language. It was the first time I have seen a Pakistani blush.
Later on this sister explained some of the very derogatory words to us and told us that if we heard them spoken again we were to report it to her.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Nobody was insulted directly, nobody was killed or maimed, it falls into that category "Tut tut he should have known better" Clarkson has always sailed close to the wind and he will do it or similar again cushioned in the knowledge the revenues he earns the Beeb would make it damned hard to sack him.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Does/should free speech include the freedom to promote hatred or "hate speech" as it's commonly referred to ?
Take this, for example, I got it posted to me this morning:

Attachment 40203

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I don't know much about Mr Clarkson's TV programmes , other than that they are mainly about motoring which does not interest me in the least .

Mr Churchill was correct when he referred to the "infernal combustion engine" .

However I do know that Mr Clarkson has a history of taking pleasure in insulting people in an inappropriate way .

It bugs me that my money , in the form of the TV Licence I pay annually , goes into the pockets of such people as Mr Clarkson .

The BBC should sack him , in the same way that I would have been sacked if I had used my position to say such things as he has said .

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

While you are right.....the revenue that the BBC get from the programs that include this man, mean that he is unlikely to face that prospect. Mere mortals like us, live in a different economic climate. I sometimes think we live on a different planet to these so called 'celebs'.

Also, this furore which has been stirred up by the media, is publicity.....and didn't someone once say that there is 'no such thing as bad publicity'.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Regarding the licence fee, with recent revelations, it seems the licence fee pays for far more unsavoury characters than clarky (that really should "bug" you).
He shouldn't have to apologise because some weasel found a bit of 2 year old footage and used it to stab him in the back?
I'm unsure but, wasn't it Clarky himself who suggested that the footage in question be reshot?

The BBC won't sack him he makes them far too much money and even if they did, I reckon ITV would snap him up in a instant.

A pocket full of money may cause some discomfort, but only a fool would throw that money away.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I am hoping you will remember those black sticks that were melted to seal electrical insulation. I think the insulation was some sort of fabric tape, maybe glass. I can only remember the common name for it. Used it once as an apprentice but can't remember much about it. Tried google with no luck

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

This looks like free speech to me. It appears as if the third example is similar to those criticisms aimed by some at welfare recipients ... even those incarcerated in HM prisons. In order for something to be considered a "hate crime", certain specific, well-defined criteria have to be met. I have no doubt that in the UK there are sections of the criminal code which deal with it. This is certainly the case over here:


What is a hate crime? - Canada - CBC News

For example, it is quite legal to be a holocaust denier ... even write books and pamphlets on the subject. But painting swastikas on Synagogues and promoting violence against Jews are crimes. Free speech is important, but it often deals with controversial topics, and we should not be surprised if some of it offends us.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Yes, we (the uk) have a similar criteria that must be met when dealing with "hate speech".
"Expressions of hatred toward someone on account of that person's colour, race, nationality (including citizenship), ethnic or national origin, religion, or sexual orientation is forbidden.[1][2][3] Any communication which is threatening, abusive or insulting, and is intended to harass, alarm, or distress someone is forbidden.[4] The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both."

Hate speech laws in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are either of these "hate speech"?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=det7TUsLy8U

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F3TJXonAK90

"Hate speech" seems to be like the good old green medicine, it's illegal but....

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

To my mind, no matter how much we may deny it to ourselves or those around us, each & everyone of us does have the propensity to be racist to a greater or lesser degree under any given circumstances.

The level however I'd say is dependent on our personal ethics & attitudes, our life experiences, the people we've met & interacted with will also have a bearing on the intensity of that racism.

It's difficult to quantify, there is no black or white but a whole pallet of greys as far as I can see.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

any news on blackpool zoo's policey on lions ?

not only may they offend a christian but they may well eat one

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I'm no lawyer ... I leave that to my daughter ... but I believe that some sort of action has to be involved, or incitement to action. Words themselves are not enough. One can freely express a "Pro Life" belief, picket, carry placards, hand out "informative" literature ... all kinds of stuff like that. But to incite, conspire, or commit violent acts on abortion clinics and staff are crimes. So I do believe that inciting others to commit illegal acts against, say, visible minorities, is hate speech. Using derogatory terms to describe such minorities is no crime.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

A lot of the legislation for this rubbish came about under Labour's time in office, when political correctness blossomed and was celebrated.
Another good reason to never vote Labour.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

How true, but it doesn't exactly make the Tories, Liberals, BNP or many, many other breeds of pig fitter to rule the trough.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Whilst on holiday I've usually visited a local museum and that was the case back in the early 1970s when I took the youngsters to see the army museum in north Wales.

I've just surfed to see if the Welch Fusilliers museum at Carnarfon Castle is still quoting the ancient battles they had with one of their adversaries; the "Fuzzy Wuzzies"..... excepting for "Boxer War" the other campaigns only mention place names.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

i seriously cant remember but who was in charge when they decided to finish building that sweage pipe connecting us to europe..

some folk call it channel tunnel or somat i call it what it is

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Another one bites the dust. The BBC have sacked a DJ for playing a song originally penned in 1932.

BBC News - BBC Radio Devon DJ David Lowe loses job over racist word

A veteran BBC local radio DJ has lost his job after playing a song on his golden oldies show containing a racist word.

BBC Radio Devon DJ David Lowe, 68, said he was unaware that a 1932 version of The Sun Has Got His Hat On included the n-word.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

A little over the top if you ask me, I didn't even know that song had "the N word" in it.
I wonder how many DJ's have been sacked for playing 50cent or other rap songs that contain "the N word" :rolleyes:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDIpkz6DOi8

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

yet they never suspended or sacked their employees when accusations of kiddy feeling were going on until they absolutely had to because jimmy savilles death exposed a lot of people and coverups.

seems to me the BBC will go to any lenghths to cover up and allow child molestation to continue but over react to a word in a song that is on their own playlist.The BBC stored this song on their playlist it wouldnt have been there if the BBC didnt keep it in their playlist so the BBC are at fault for not checking through tehir play lists not the DJ

i hope he fights it..

they still play olivers army though and look....

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Read the BBC link in full and you will see the BBC accepted they didn't treat him right and offered him his job back.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

That isn't good enough though is it?
The man has had to go through a period of time when he was put through the mill by the BBC. I would be taking legal advice in respect of the dismissal.
This poor chap feels that he cannot return to his job because this incident has aggravated a pre existing condition.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

it shoudlnt have been an issue period the BBC have merely carried out damage control

the person who sacked him should face disciplinary action for causing unfair distress to an employee and be forced to take a common sense course

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Saw it on the news Mike, but it doesn't alter the fact that although the guy himself didn't use the word, it was part of a recording from the 30's? But because it's the word nigger irrespective of the context, the howling & baying for someone, anyone, to be punished for it is out of all proportion to the presumed offence!

Knee jerk over common sense, sadly the standard reaction to far to many cases nowadays due to over-sensitivity about perceived offence given & militant liberalist whiners whose overbearing preciousness must over ride anyone elses opinions & rights it seems!

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Either the BBC accept that this word was a part of the language of a bygone era.....and accept that it may cause offence to some of the population.....or they go through their back catalogue and remove all content with the word in it.
It is perfectly fine to have programs littered with blasphemy and foul language(which is offensive to probably just as many people), but anything that is not politically correct is not acceptable.
Talk about double standards and skewed values.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I agree, Dave, Margaret and Accyman. Just pointing out that the BBC acknowledged that they were wrong. The reference to Elvis Costello's Oliver's Army is pertinent too. Another song I can think of is John Lennon's Woman Is The Nigger Of The World. I have heard that played a few times by the BBC.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

There are lots of examples that could be cited in respect of this word.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Which just goes to show the hypocrisy within various establishments that are supposed to represent balanced, unbiased & impartial reporting & neutrality across all aspects but fail continually depending on whose on the receiving end.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

What pees me off is that the PCs are so concerned about words that they don't put enough effort into dealing with the sticks and stones. Sweep all the dirt under a carpet of neutral, ineffective discourse. Racism, sexism, homophobia, and a host of other nasties are about what people do, not about their vocabulary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzFTLKWvfE0

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

iv seen the full concert that clip is taken from and boy does he rip into the white folk in the audience yet no one screamed about his abuse of the white people...

this is mainly due to black people leaving the white people to decide for themselves what to be offended by

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Regarding the DJ, Is the BBC saying their DJ's should know every word on every track they play? hmmm
I don't remember them doing 'radio edits' in 1932, but if they did, would "the N word" of been removed? I doubt it :rolleyes:

No chance of this getting played by a BBC DJ then:
10 - Nigger - YouTube

And here is a brown skinned lady's thoughts on the song:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_yehlnc5AE4

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

It seems that it is alright for the BBC to play Jay-Z and Kanye Wests music which uses this frowned upon word...Why? Because it is spelled with an 'a'(as opposed to 'er'.....except that when it is sung how can you tell.
Maybe men of colour can call other men of colour what they like and it is OK.
Isn't that some kind of racism too?

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

i watched a movie last night called ride along.Its a pretty new movie and is showing in cinemas with a 12A rating which means kids can watch it

can you guess what word comes up on multiple ocassions ?

it sounds like snigger with a silent S

so while the BBC are handing out appologies i think they shoudl give clarkson an appology to and a payrise to help with his divorce settlement

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

"The N word" also featured in rush hour, using the phrase "What's up my Nigga"
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uoL3QJ5M528

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

What that clip doesn`t show is chris tuckers character (Carter) saying the exact same thing a couple of minutes earlier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVxJbpbD0zU

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

[QUOTE=gpick24;1105991]What that clip doesn`t show is chris tuckers character (Carter) saying the exact same thing a couple of minutes earlier

Thats true g, fact is 'racism' has and always will be everywhere where there are "races", if you ask me, the sooner folk see there is only one race (human) the better.

One race,one love :Peace:

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

too many words today are deemed to offend others, 50 years ago when I was a teenager life was so uncomplicated, we were always taught stick & stones, I do not condone attacking any other person with words that offend them but I do feel that it is no longer possible to just speak freely, one first has to analyse if any words may offend someone

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I get very weary about this kind of thing o.O What is central to the whole debate for me is the hatred which people develop for one reason or another towards others, that is the essence of racism or any kind of "other-ism" which is used to divide and categorise us all into some kind of group of belonging.
The words are not to blame, they have their own history which is often lost over time. They usually start out as being non-offensive then gain a new connotation when used and infused with hate. They become considered collectively to be "bad words", however they are used, and that is NOT correct.
I don't think Mr. Clarkson was expressing hatred when he started to pronounce the "offending" word, he realised that what he was saying might be taken badly as the word has been so demonised and tried to mumble his way out of a "Faux Pas" thus making things look far worse than they actually were!

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

As a post-script - should we castigate teachers who still use Rudyard Kipling's version of "Eeny, meany, miny, mo..." featuring the same (now) offensive word? Or should we perhaps teach it to children and explain it in it's historical context so they might learn something from it...

The alternative might be burning all copies of his books...

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

when reginald D Hunter was talking about racism and when he was asked if something was racist he replied he didnt know and enquired if there was hatred in the persons heart when they said it..

i could call you a teabag and it wouldnt be deemed an offencive word even if i was screming the word teabag at you while smashing your face in with a claw hammer



ps:

somoene mentioned teh obvious that we are all teh same race so those who scream racism on behlaf of others are declaring that they think the person to be offended is not human and therefore beneath humanity as humans are top of teh food chain

what a set of bastards how dare they see someone as sub human just because of their skin colour

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I think education is the way to go.
We have to accept that language is fluid and moves in waves...that some words will be fashionable and that some words will lose the original essence of their meaning over time...this is usually through misuse in the first place......ANY word can be said in a derogatory fashion....ANY word can cause offence....not by its meaning, but by the way the user bequeaths it with a bad meaning.

I'm not sure I am explaining myself very clearly here. Many years ago I was once having a very heated (teenage) altercation with my father and I called him a 'basket'(basket is not an offensive word is it?) He thought I was going to say another word which starts bas.....but ends differently......I got a whack for it.
Why ? Well because my father concluded that I had substituted an innocuous word for one which meant he had no father.

So if a word is used with bad intent, then it corrupts the innocent word.

They say that words cannot harm us, but in my opinion words can hurt you more than any sword......they leave invisible scars which do not heal.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Great Britain used to be known as the backbone of europe which is suprising considering how spineless and gutless our leaders have been over the last 30 years when it comes to standing up to cry babies..

another comedian that made a point about racism is rick jervaise who mentioned how the sun or mirror news paper had a front page story one day branding jade goodie a racist yet on the back they called a chineese snooker player POT NOODLE in big black print

news papers love to jump on a good racism story yet they are hardly ones to take a moral high ground

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Are the words Mick, Paddy, Taffy and Jock racist?

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Just heard a rumor that a CBeebies TV presenter has been reprimanded after complaints regarding another childrens nursery rhyme.
Former weather woman and complete arachnophobe Winsey Willis has been left completely traumatised after hearing the presenter reciting Insey Winsey Spider.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Winsey Willis is her stage name I believe she is actually a Muffet... ;)

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I thought that was her maiden name.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

theres only one country that you cant shorten when refering to its people or people of origin and it aint china the chinks dont care what you call them as long as you buy their egg flied lice :D

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

33% or one third of "Britons" admit being racist
BBC News - One third of Britons 'admit being racially prejudiced'

I'd say it's probably more like 50%+ but they haven't the balls to admit it.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I wonder if that includes the ethnic people who come into this country but do not integrate.
I wonder if those who cry 'racist' at every opportunity have not created some of this.
No, of course it won't..... only white britons can be termed racist.
Calling people names is a way to stifle any healthy debate about issues that worry people...and we all know bout the BBC and left wing bias.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

I mentioned this way back at post #49, I certainly don't need the BBC to point the moral compass especially with their attitudes & mentality.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

no because they havnt cried about it yet

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Also they got a sense of humour.;)

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Racism is a very interesting phenomenon. Labelling any social group with a derogatory catch-all term is probably a by product of a mixture of intolerance, ignorance and laziness I feel. I think it is also more likely to manifest itself in a society which culturally isolates itself.
Xenophobia to a greater or lesser degree manifests itself in most of us at some point (mea culpa) but hopefully we are in control of our speech to a degree where we can avoid dropping the N. bomb if we are trying really hard.
When younger I was taught to sing "catch a BABY by the toe" perhaps Clarkson did not benefit from a good enough education.

Bigoted or free speech
 

Maybe his teachers insisted on accuracy when teaching rhymes? If so surely that would be a better education than teaching children that they must try not to upset minority groups with words those groups probably aren't offended by when used in a nursery rhyme.

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Well if that's the case he's certainly doing quite well on it, so what does that say about the education others receive?

Yet going back to the free speech issue "Question time" yesterday evening & a certain Mr.Joey Barton made an analogy between political parties & ugly women, an analogy mind, not directed at anyone in particular (I admit to grinning at his comment, along with quite a few members of the studio audience from what I could see), but needless to say the PC attack hounds were straight in & baying about the offensiveness of his comment, only then to go & end her parole by saying that it was to be expected by one such as him as "Footballers have their brains in their feet!"

That being a comment directed at him & footballers in general, so by far more personal & meant to be offensive, not a batted eyelid! He was also later harangued for his comment by a female questioner from the audience at which point the Lad apologised. So who here is victim & who the perpetrator ?

Bigoted or free speech
 

I would imagine the victim is the one that has no way of defending themselves from the comments of those with no sense of humour that take on the role of being offended on behalf of all the other ugly people, ugliness can be a state of mind, always being ready to attack even the most innocent of things such as an old nursery rhyme just because times have changed.

I imagine if folk wanted to they could attack Shakespeare's works as none P.C. Insist a variety of words or phrases be changed, but if that happens will it still be as it was meant to be understood at the time of writing?

Perhaps if I was to write a nursery rhyme now that used the nikker word then by modern standards it may be called offensive, however it wasn't meant to be offensive when first penned so only a narrow mind would find it offensive now.
Note to self, stand at the BLACKBOARD and write 100 times, 'I must not be offensive to anyone that uses an imaginary slight against any minority be it colour, sex or indeed opening an egg from the wide rather than the narrow end, because 50 years from now things will have changed and I won't be here to do anything about it'.
:)

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Happen we aint all as cultured as you.:rolleyes:

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Already happening around the world, not necessarily Shakespeare although he does have his detractors, but various other authors have come under the spotlight for changes to their text or the castigation of the "rent an offendee crowd", Helen Bannerman, Enid Blyton, Mark twain, Roald Dahl to name but a few.

As you can see, things ain't so black & white (Ooops, maybe not such a smart metaphor considering the subject matter! Ah what the hell! Learn to live with it!)

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Thats the trouble Dave, The knobs can't live wi it.:rolleyes:

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yeah sod em

knobs out i say.........

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

As a lifetime knob, may I just say that I find the above two posts both hurtful & prejudicial! Perhaps you could use a more acceptable name such a Dick Head or Toss-pot?

:(

Re: Bigoted or free speech
 

Strange, that last quote was from the UKIP MEP for the North West. Aren't UKIP supposed to be against Political Correctness? Or does that only work as long as the political incorrectness isn't directed towards them? Can dish it out, but they can't take it. ;)