Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

OH, come on Rena....don't tell me that this is a surprise to you?
You really expected much and got very little(a bit like the done deal that David Cameron THINKS he's achieved).
Yes, and the 9million pounds it has cost is being paid for by you and me.(how much good could this have done if the money had been used for something worthwhile?)
There has been a petition online complaining about this. Our esteemed PM does not wish to debate the issue as he reckons a precedent exists......in that the last referendum was paid out of tax payers money. I don't know what the relative cost was back then, but you can bet your neck it was not in the region of 9million)
If we are going to have some kind of information, then at least it should be balanced out with equal space being given to the reasons why we should leave.

Being in the EU is like being in an abusive relationship...it saps your courage, saps your energy,saps your confidence saps your money. You think the partnership will change....and it will, but not in your favour.
WE really need to be OUT.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I suggest you send it back with some comment or other, so the tax payer doesn't get stung again use this address

Freepost RSBB-XRZT-XTXE
The Conservative Party Foundation
30 Millbank
LONDON
SW1P 4DP

here's what others are doing:-

The 11 Best Ways Britons Are Dumping David Cameron's £9M Pro-EU Propaganda Leaflet

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh, they will certainly be getting my copy back.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And mine,cheers dave.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes it did surprise me - when the butcher gives me a parcel and says it contains beef steak I don't expect to find a pork sausage inside!

I listened to part of the Commons Debate this afternoon and wondered what the Minister thought he'd sent out when he described the effort as "a sixteen page explanatory booklet". He's been hoodwinked - half of those sixteen pages had morphed into photos by the time it reached me. He did make it clear when he spoke that anyone who wants more details concerning the content of the booklet should go online. My current thoughts are that I don't know whether I can be bothered.

Excepting for the cost and the layout, it doesn't bother me that the government produced the policy booklet as I receive, or did receive, other government policy booklets viz Annual Inland Revenue bumph, also various annual notifications on various legal requirements for Employment Regs, etc.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

There is something of a difference when you receive other government literature....because it is relating to legal requirements, regulations and as such, is explanatory and informative....whereas in contrast this is propaganda.
Nothing informative, or explanatory....just the biased viewpoint of one side with no attempt do anything which shows the other side of the picture.
It is not balanced, it is not principled and it is doubtful how much truth there is in it....but then what should we expect from politicians who believe we all have the brain power of a retarded gnat?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

dont forget to give it a few circuits of the toilet seat before you put it in an envelope

preferably the underneath of one

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It's a bit of a conundrum. A case of damned if you do or damned if you don't. It comes down to, at the end of the day, do you want to be ruled by the sleazy casual criminals that infest Westminster. Or do you prefer the prospect of being part of what will become the fourth Reich in all but name!

Laa

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There is no conundrum in it for me.
Those sleazy criminals in Westminster are subject to being voted for.
The mandarins in Brussels(I am not talking about the MEP's......they have less influence on policy than a mosquito on a rhino's bum) are just as sleazy, just as corrupt and we have no power to kick them out.

Our only way is to get out.....right out.

The so called deal that David Cameron has elicited has been denounced as a bit of 'bazaar haggling' by Count Lambsdorf(who is something of a bigwig in the EU).

Now if someone like this is telling you that the deal is not going to be honoured and you STILL vote to stay in, then you are quite clearly certifiable and should not be allowed out on your own.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I don't usually sign petitions but I made an exception in this case. I think the case is simple, if they put all the EU facts in a leaflet, by default, they would produce a propaganda document in favour of leaving.
All this scaremongering, that nobody will deal with our little tiny nation is just a tactic to frighten us into voting to stay in. Outside the EU, we would be masters of our own destiny although our leaders would be required to grow some, if we are to be a super power once more.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The only possible conundrum i can see is are we stupid or not.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You are of course correct it is scaremongering and yet the same Government is running this advert:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbqja-aBEIs and most of the folk they claim we could deal with aren't in the EU.

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That is one of the problems. The politicians now have less work to do, seeing as many of the rules and regulations we live by are generated by the EU.
Leaving the EU would mean that they would have to pull their socks up and get down to unravelling the legislation that we have sleep walked into.

We do not have a natural leader in ANY of the political parties.
The other aspect to be considered is, those feeding us this bull shine are in the pay of the EU in one way or another, so they have a vested interest in us remaining.....They can never be relied on to give an unbiased view.

The government can spend 9 million on a leaflet, but the OUT campaign have their TOTAL budget capped at 7 million.
But the government see that as fair??
OUT,OUT,OUT!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Perhaps another reason for our M.P.'s to prefer us to stay in is, THEIR future relies on the EU?
Once they have been proven unfit for purpose as an M.P. and voted out by their constituents quite a lot of them then try to get voted in as M.E.P.'s thus extending their careers and the length of time they can keep their snouts in the trough by years.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The EU obviously think we are.
If they did not think we were stupid, they would be hiding the fact that all the great reforms that our PM has got out of them,are not worth a sheet of Bronco.

They are relying on us being too dumb or too cowardly to stand up for ourselves.

Pretty soon they are going to be calling us 'The No Balls Brits'

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I'm tempted, but the privatised post office will be chortling all the way to the bank for services rendered by returning the "freepost". I don't fancy stumping up a second time.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

But think of the irritation that will be caused by so many returned leaflets.........and it is giving some work to the Postal workers.
It will irritate me to get it...so I don't see why I should not pass on this irritation...and also let them recycle this bumf

I will certainly be sending mine back....I might even put a stamp on mine and send it back to Downing St.

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Sorry but that to me is simply making an excuse for this scum that govern us.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

i think one of those pigs is been sick....

must have had a MP sausage that wasnt to his liking

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I just got an email saying that Parliament will debate the petition some of us signed .

It won't make much difference , but it's better than sitting on your hands and doing nothing .

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/116762

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes, I have had that e-mail too and like you my thoughts were that it will just be something that makes little difference to the outcome....but maybe it might just make the politicians realise that we do care what they do with our taxes.
That money should not be wasted on such pointless leaflets(I have got mine today and it gives no real worthwhile information, so serves no purpose).
I would rather this money be spent on ensuring the sick and the disabled were cared for in a better manner.

I have just put mine in an envelope and it is going to be posted back to the PM today......not the freepost address, but 10 Downing Street.
I am happy to pay the cost of a stamp for it to cause the PM's Office some irritation.(I am sure they will not bother to read my comments on it...all clean, but pithy)

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Aye, me too! 9th May is the set date according to the drivel, neither use nor ornament to man or beast! Between now & then how much more shi-ite are they going to manage to shovel out onto the long suffering public?

Absolutely pathetic & underhanded. :mad:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

cameron should be made to refund the cost of the literature out of one of his off shore accounts

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Got the same mail. The 9th is a perfect date, for him, he gets the elections on the 5th of May over with before he has to face any music.

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Plus if his party actually do well in those elections he'll claim that he obviously has the nation's backing for all that he is doing.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I'd like to debate the future prospects for our innovative and skilful workforce concerning our aircraft industry if we were no longer part of the EU.

We already have a market outside of the EU for the precision parts that we manufacture and supply for Drones (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles = UAVs).

My concern is for the workers at nearby Broughton and Wales who manufacture the wings for the Airbus where about 40,000 jobs are reliant on the few thousand skilled people who actualy design/manufacture the wings.

We used to design and manufacture aircraft ourselves until money became scarce in early/mid 1960s. Aircraft designers and allied tradesmen lost their jobs and many went abroad in the resulting brain drain. It was about that time that one company had designed Concord but couldn't find the money to produce it in the UK. However, we belonged to the European Coal and Steel Community that had been set up after WWII and it was via this connection that the government turned to France to join us in manufacturing what eventually became Concorde with an E. After we joined what was the Common Market we continued partnering other European Countries in designing and manufacturing various high cost aircraft. In fact my son in law was posted from England to the continent in the 1980s to work on a then current aircraft computer system. Since that time the European Coal and Steel Community has been incorporated into the EU.

Europe doesn't farm out any work, it looks inward. Therefore, my concern is that if we left the EU only the member nations would be invited to take part in the design/manufacture of aircraft. This doesn't hold a very rosy future for 40,000 jobs.

I'd like to hear the latest buzz on the Broughton/Wharton grapevine

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Rena, I cannot answer this question that you pose, but what i can tell you is that when tenders were being sought for rolling stock for the railways Siemens(Germany) and Bombardier(Derby UK)both submitted their tenders.......who do you think was awarded the contract?
It wasn't the Derby firm.....this was because Siemens got some form of sunsidies from their government to make their tender more attractive(the playing field was tilted to make the ball roll their way)........so being in the EU did not help us there.

I do believe that if our products are good enough then there will be markets outside of the EU for them....and as it stands we currently buy far more from the EU than they buy from us.
The current deal for the wings of the Airbus only gives these plants about 2 years of guaranteed work...so after that they would be looking for something else anyway.

If the government can squander 9 million on a propaganda leaflet that isn't worth a light then maybe they should be looking at backing some of the industries in this country...but that would take some working at....some proactive thinking..... and I can't really see many thinkers in the current set up.....they all seem to want to take the line of least resistance.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The manufacture of the wings/tailplane etc requires very large, very complicated and therefore very expensive machinery. To set up another plant with the same, or similar equipment would be totally prohibitive with regard to cost and the expertise to operate such equipment. Airbus could not afford any increase in the cost of the Airbus series which is in a very competitive market and the same applies to the engines - you cannot just change the engines from one manufacturer to another without serious design changes and current orders will, for the large part, specify Rolls Royce engines.
Another example of the Remain Fear Factor - guesswork and lies.
I don't suppose many people know that the EU gave China a loan of over Eu800M some years ago - specifically for the development of iron and steel production - no surprise that the Remain have kept quiet about that.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I remember the railway fiasco, brought about because Gordon Brown stood up in Parliament and announced the new policy that all government contracts would be awarded to companies that submitted the lowest tender. Thank goodness this policy changed when the Coalition came into power.

I'm pretty sure that one of Germany's steel companies was/is part owned by the German government despite the EU regulations about nationalisation. I don't know if it was Siemens though. I'll bet my bottom dollar that if one of their large companies had a downturn, the German Government would organise some sort of handout. As for the foreign owned Bombadier company. Earlier this year it announced it's having to downsize due to the vagaries of the stockmarket.

Turning to the point you raised about the aircraft industry. Coincidentally a new statue of Margaret Thatcher has been made but there's one important element missing - her handbag. During strife of the Callaghan & Foot governments the value of the £Pound had dropped which meant high inflation. When Thatcher came into government 1979 she had to bring in some money. She successfully handbagged the ministers at a Common Market meeting then stood up and told us that she'd given our revolutionary newly designed jump jet to America because we couldn't afford to manufacture it - but they had agreed for the UK to manufacture and provide aircraft parts. In the event the only orders that the Yanks sent us was to Guest, Keen & Nettlefold. When I worked for a heavy engineering company in the 1950s-60s that company only provided us with nuts and bolts :-(
I'm surprised we still have an aircraft industry after it was decimated in the 1960s after a couple of knockbacks that were publicised My late cousin worked on the TSR-2 bomber, which would have been the first supersonic aeroplane - it cost the taxpayer £Billions and was plagued with problems - the blueprints were eventually destroyed. I'm wandering off the point now but I used to get really fired up at the thought of us -v- the USA ( = "the big boys"). Late 60s- early 70s we'd (as in GB) had got an order from Australia for several aircraft - which was cancelled when the yanks went back to them & offered to sell them the same number of similar aircraft plus several others thrown in FOC. Again, when they discovered we were looking for buyers for the first supersonic passenger plane the Concord, they (and the Russians with an imaginery Concordski) went around the world trying to get orders for a plane they said they had already designed - actually they eventually had to admit they couldn't get it off the drawing board.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thanks for the comprehensive answer Barrie. Much appreciated.

Although, as I thought up the question of the aeroplane wings myself, I didn't have to rely on anyone's "Fear Factor".

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Don't reckon that many listen to the Fear Factor? though quite a few follow the Balloon Factor.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Is that where someone gives their over inflated opinions in one post and all it takes is one little prick that knows what they are talking about to burst that bubble?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

One point that no-one yet seems to have mentioned in the media is the attitude of Nicola Sturgeon and her best friend AS.
NS has publicly stated that she and the SNP will support Remain, in addition she is on public record as saying that if the UK votes to leave she & the SNP will hold another referendum to split from the UK (which is one of the main policies of the SNP), and remain as a member of the EU.
Fairly obvious then that NS & the SNP should vote to leave the EU, strengthening the Brexit vote, thereby triggering a referendum to split Scotland away from the UK, or does she actually realise that the majority of Scots would not support her aims of an independent Scotland?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Probably no-one mentioned cos she aint worth listening too?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That was always the wee ginger toms ambition & the threat of Brexit is an ideal excuse for the ginger binter to have another dig at "They English Bar'sterts!"

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

What?
Vote Leave and get out of the EU and get rid of Scotland?
BOGOF!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It gets even better!
According to this weekend's FT, we could also get rid of Cameroon with a vote LEAVE.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I know it sounds terrible but i would prefer him to be run oer.would make a good news bulletin

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Now some goon politician in France says we will be like Guernsey or Jersey if we leave Europe....we are bigger and better in the EU than out of it.
Better for whom? Not us that is for sure.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well i quite like those 2 places, i'll settle fer that.:)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well, I haven't been to either of them......but I think I would too.
It was the French finance minister who called us little.
I would rather be little and self governing than be a satellite state of Federal Europe where we have to do as we are told and cannot democratically remove those who do not understand or care about our wishes.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

From what I understand both make a profit without being part of the EU, so I think we should follow their examples.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thats what i understood to be the case, the idiot "Frog" may have helped brexit. pmsl

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Now George Osborne has stepped into the fray with scare tactics that tell us how we will all be worse off and that the basic rate of tax could rise by 8%.......this is based on some sort of finacial 'model' but in truth this is just speculation.

Maybe we would save by not having to school EU migrant children. Look after the health of EU health tourists, not send tax credits out of the country.

Maybe we could actually choose who we let into this country.
Maybe we could make our own rules....give our MPs a job to do instead of letting them think it is all going to be done by the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

So far I have neither seen nor read anything which makes me consider my current position.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

To be perfectly honest from what i have read and took on board, its made me harden my position, the sooner OUT the better.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have come to the conclusion that the reason our politicos from all parties want us to stay in is because, at the moment if something needs doing they can say, 'terribly sorry, we would do something about it but it's the EU, they are stopping us doing anything'.
Get rid of the EU and they will have to actually do something instead of passing the buck.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Done a bit more thinking (twice in one day) they've got us coming and going.

Vote to stay and the excuse is 'It's the EU's Fault'.

Vote to leave and it's 'Well had we remained in the EU perhaps something could have been done'.

:(

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Yes Less, it will never be their fault.
It will be our fault for not understanding the so called information they have deigned to dole out....Whatever the ills of the country, they have a readymade excuse...what is worse is that the British public seem to swallow it.
Have we really all lost the power of reasoning and critical analysis?

These politicians in power right now(and those in opposition) can only presume how life would be if we left the EU...None of them are old enough to know what it was like before the EU.

And worse there are three types of exit.
One where we are neither in or out.....we follow their rules but have no say in how they are made......one where we have a relationship like the one Canada has( don't ask me....I haven't a clue what this really means. I will have to go away and do some reading up)
Then there is the totally out version.
According to the George Osborne......all of these are going to cost us more than the subs to stay in.
I STILL want to be OUT!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Have just been watching the news on Sky, a recent "Poll" in France has said 53% of frogs also want a E.U. referendum, that comes a surprise to me, but just goes to show, the rubbish we are being told by those who want to remain.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Would that be a referendum to leave the EU Cashy?
I must've missed seeing that.
The French only follow the EU rules that they like anyway. They don't seem to be slavish in following the edicts from Brussels.....not like us.
It is time the whole organisation was broken up.....and the individual nations were allowed to govern themselves democratically and in the way that suits them.
Then if Greece(or anyone else for that matter) gets into financial difficulties, it is up to them to sort it out.

This has been a social and political experiment that has failed.
Why do we keep trying to make something which has failed to work, more workable?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes it was, so despite whats said, one of the "Founder Members" many like oer here are far from happy with the E.U. By the way Spain were exactly the same when i lived yon, only followed when it suited em.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Did you notice the ominous silence about the Dutch having their own referendum and something like 65% wanting to leave the EU.
I did not see or hear one mention of this in any of the TV broadcasts, or in any of the papers I read.
Shouldn't we be told that there are other member states who are equally dissatisfied with how the EU runs the show.
We are being told that everything in the EU garden is lovely.....this stinks.
In the paper today Junker has said that the EU has meddled too much in what should be sovereign affairs. He didn't say that there were ant real plans to change this though.

I am like Cashy, the more I see, hear, read....and the harder my resolve is to vote OUT!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Look through recent History, if they don't want us to know they won't tell us.

A prime example was the Falklands war, all the T.V. news was closed down, we were only fed news from an embarrassed and embarrassing, junior civil servant
and then it was only news that couldn't compromise the situation by telling us anything that could help the Argentinians (I'd have had a job travelling the 7,378 miles to Argie to inform them, all the bus services to there had been suspended for the duration!).

The rest of the world knew exactly what was going on, we knew nothing (or at least the 95% of us that couldn't be trusted or couldn't understand what was going on knew nothing).

If they could block news from the T.V. and the internet to keep us ignorant about other EU Countries, they would.

We have finally got a referendum lets not allow their tactics to stop us from doing what we know to be correct.
:thankya:

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Yes Less, that is why I trust very little of what those with a vested interest want to tell us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

yeh Margaret, but still plenty of mugs that do.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Daily express & Breitbart London, usually give more information than the usual tabloids.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I only knew of it because you supplied a link to Breitbart.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I don't know about the holiday island of Guernsey but Jersey brings in extra money by specialising in providing off-shore banking services. John Nettles, who plays Bergerac, the TV series that takes place on Jersey, was interviewed a year or so ago and said he'd applied to live there. He was turned down, apparently because foreigners aren't allowed to own property and neither can they reside there without permission, which is only allowed in exceptional circumstances. As he and the TV company had spent years spending money on the island and bringing in more visitors he thought he'd be given permission.

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I didn't see that but I do know that Germans haven't been too pleased with the way their country has changed this last decade or so with the influx of foreigners and I imagine France and other countries are agitated by the mass movement of people from the African continent. This was massive before Putin decided to take a hand September 2015 which encouraged even more people to move northward to safety. Putin is definitely wanting to discourage Eastern European countries from belonging to the EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And Obama says, "with the candour of a friend", if you vote to leave you are on America's shiite list.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh no! Not another one? :D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Typical, Obama wants us to stay in cos its best for AMERICA not us.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy, you took the words right out of my mouth!
I will add to this .....what is best for America, is not best for us.
The only thing we should be considering is what is best for us.
This makes a mockery of what Tony Blair and Geoge Bush called 'a special relationship'.
Obama needs to keep his trap shut. I certainly won't be following his direction.
They would get over it if we left.

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The thing is though Margaret Cameron, @ the Labour Party seem to me, too thick to see that implication.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy, I don't think they are thick at all. It is not in their interests to acknowledge the implications. they have vested interests in the Uk being in the Eu...all of which I have mentioned in previous posts to this thread.

I will be reall really surprised.....nay, shocked if the electorate vote to leave.
I cannot see us getting out at all.
I thnk that there is much skulduggery to come.
We will wait and see.
For us old burgers it has little consequence....but it for our children and grandchildren it will be terrible. It makes you ask if those who died fighting in the two wars for our freedom died in vain.

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Yer probably correct Margaret, i just prefer to think thick oer dishonest.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Actions of any country in the world could affect us in the UK so I don't mind if a foreigner gives their point of view of how our actions could affect them. It wasn't just Obama who gave his opinion yesterday, there was a TV programme on last night where opinions were asked of scholars in some Scandinavian countries who have no say/vote in the EU
I was listening to TV this morning and a chap from Holland ''phoned in to give his views on the EU. He was disgruntled that he couldn't vote because, although he still holds a British passport, he's not lived here within the last 15 years. He would have voted to leave the EU because of the meddling of the Commission in other countries internal affairs. Apparently his Dutch circle of pals feel the same way.
The only thing I take umbrage at in this debate is the parrotted lie that the 'NO' camp promotes - this being how much we pay per month or per year. to the EU - they conveniently forget to deduct our discount. With discount we pay between £8 and £9 Billion Pounds then we gt back some millions for research, farmers, etc. As I'm from the era of a Farthing being able to buy something to put on the table even a Million or a Billion pouns is a lot of money - but when you hear that the Personal Borrowings of ordinary Brits is nearly One and a half TRILLION Pounds - then "millions" and "billions" fades into insignificance

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And does our Head of State or even the PM advise the Americans or the Canadians on how they should vote in any election? It is very easy to skew public opinion quotes on the media - they only report the views of interviewees that suit the purpose of that particular media outlet.
Your post is so like the Remain camp publicity - random figures but no indication of the source. If you wish to publicise financial reasons as to why we should remain then please cover all financial areas and provide source information.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

This 1 and a half trillion pounds?
Was it borrowed before or after we joined the EU?
Does it make it more or less important to leave the EU?
Does it have any relevance at all to do with the in or out debate?
Are you just padding out your posts to make them seem knowledgeable?
Could you be amongst those that think 95% of us shouldn't be allowed to vote in the referendum because we are too thick to comprehend?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Looking forward to Obama enacting free movement of travel into the USA for all citizens of Mexico, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Honduras, Belize, Panama, El Salvador before he leaves office.

Also think it would be a brilliant idea if US joined with all North and South American when making new laws and gave Venezuela and Ecuador a vote.

Funny, I always thought all those tens of thousands of American military men and women who lie in European soil gave their lives to put an end to a European Dictatorship.

But what do we know?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The eight or nine millions could be used to benefit people in this country.
You might tell me that it already does, but it also ties us into lots of regulations which are not followed by other counries, but which we slavishly adhere to.

Also there is a lot of(financial) waste in the EU. In this day and age of technology, video conferencing, electronic communications can you tell me why Brussels charters a special train, spends and inordinate amount of money transporting people and filing cabinets to Strasbourg for four days EVERY MONTH. I did see the eye watering cost of this exercise, but it escapes me right now.

There is far too much meddling in the affairs of each member state...and Claude Junker has admitted this.

The only way is OUT.......RIGHT OUT.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I imagine, why shouldn't I imagine? Not having been given actual facts about this 1.5 trillion is owed by people struggling to purchase their own home not to be considered a frivolous or unnecessary amount of borrowing but to be admired because in or out house purchase will always be the largest need for any of us to borrow and without these praiseworthy folk going into debt mortgage companies, estate agents, builders, solicitors, surveyors and many, many more would find themselves unemployed whether we are in or out of the EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Maybe you haven't been listening to UK media discussions about how awful it would be if Donald Trump got into power. Some Americans might think we were poking our noses into their business.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I was just chatting.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Well chat with facts THIS subject is important for our children's future.

It doesn't need obfuscation of any kind, if you are for staying in make sure you put forward worthwhile points toward staying in.

Don't try to muddy the pool with something irrelevant.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

My offspring are all saying the same thing and now that I've heard the latest news this afternoon about the June meeting of Five EU Presidents, I'm not surprised the Dutch want out. As we use £Sterling we're not affected but it will affect the countries that use the Euro currency, because the meeting is about closer political, fiscal union. I'm finding it hard to believe that they would be daft enough to include the "poor cousin" countries such as Spain, Portugal, Greece and the others....

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes, we are poking our nose into American business.....Very smelly it is too.

I think it is fine for Obama to express an opinion, as long as it is recognised that we are able to have our own opinion.....and that it is just as valid as that the he holds(if not more so).
For him to direct us in how we should act is a totally different matter.

As an aside, it is going to be very socially/politically difficult if Donald Trump is elected.....David Cameron has said some pretty damaging things about him in the past, yet he may have to deal with him on the political stage if the electorate give him the governing mandate.
I don't quite know how that will work.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I do not take kindly to veiled threats from a yankee president, nor do i like Cameron saying my friend Barak, when it should be Mr Obama or Mr President, he was only calling him not long ago, but then only the memory lapsers will not recall that.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Poor Cousins? I thought we were all equal under the EU?
How can such a successful venture have poor cousins?
Do me a favour don't answer, my underwear is already saturated from laughing at your roll back comments.
At least if the vote is stay, I know whatever comes next is because of your kind of intelligence.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It seems to me that your offspring have some sense.

As Less says...there should be no poor cousins in the EU...and the fact that there IS such inequality after such a long time is worrying.
None of the member nations wants to give any leeway to other member states...they all want to have the best deal(no shame in that at all).......but there has never been a level playing field whether it be in reference to trade, or finances or politics....so the whole concept does not work for any but the industrialised nations........anyone else stands not a snowflakes chance.

We need to be OUT! Completely OUT.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Cashy worry thee not, Cameron claiming Barack as a friend?
Barack doesn't like us, he has mentioned this in the past.
That doesn't mean the leader of the coalition can't lick ass.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I want to weigh up all the pros and cons = what's good -v- what's bad. Where are your facts? All I've heard from you is a lot of sneering.
I know the trade unions mostly want to stay in because they confer with the other European unions which gives them a lot of clout. Hence we have maternity leave, the two year rule on contracts/sackings, shorter hours, etc.
On the other hand Scottish fishermen want out so that we can have our seas back again.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I bet you're a bunch of laughs at the bar

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Getting personal now are we? Could it be you lack imagination to do anything worthwhile for your cause?

I never stand at the bar, those that seek wisdom know where I am at...



...innit!

:alright:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

But the politicians in Scotland want us to remain...and they have hinted( I don't know if they have come right out and said it) that they will have another referendum to split from England and apply to join the EU, because if we leave(unlikely) then they will be taken out of the EU with us...and they want to stay.

I trawl through lots of information from many different sources to make sense of things...but I can't honestly say i have found anything that makes me consider voting to remain in the EU.
A lot of the information is pure conjecture on what MIGHT happen if we leave....because no-one really knows for sure.
The fact that people from other member states want(although the politicians will not tell you this...they have a vested interest in states staying in) to leave suggests that the lifespan of this experiment is coming to a conclusion.

It is an an undemocratic organisation.
We promote democracy in countries where there has been none, yet we accept the undemocratic rule of this organisation...how hypocritical is that.

It is known that democratic nations rarely fight wars...they choose to buy goods or products rather than take them by force...and yet we want to remain in an undemocratic organisation....an organisation that is looking for ever closer political union( because without political union, there can be no real or lasting fiscal union )....yet we have no say on those who make the rules.

I know I am repeating myself, but we need to be OUT and making our own way in the world.
The EU is like an abusive relationship......it takes your self esteem, it takes your money, it takes your confidence to act on your own behalf...it controls you and gives you nothing of value in return.
Here ends the political Broadcast on Behalf of the LEAVE party.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

What facts do you require?
I have a whole interweb of facts, some pro, some saying no, IF I put a fact forward, (which isn't often) it's because I've made sure it's a fact, You put forward wandering prose with a hint of knowing where you are coming from, (usually we are all tired by the time we get through it).

Now you have been shown as what you are, so you attack, hoping that brains will be baffled.

I have no objection to you wanting to stay in, I do however find your wishing to divert us from real facts, tedious.

I want a good life for us all, unlike you, I can't see how it can be within the EU.

However I wouldn't stoop to this level.
:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You're doing your usual "put down". I wasn't the first to throw a barb - you're the one who made the jibe about intelligence.

I asked for a debate about the points Cameron made which I copied and pasted. I don't have to look hard to find all the things I don't like about the EU but I'm NOT the type who wants to cut off my nose to spite my face. That's why I'm trying to consider ALL angles and not just the ones I know about such as free movement which was one of the points in the copy & paste list.

BTW wandering off the EU - does anyone know if the 1947 Act that Atlee's Labour government introduced in 1947 has been annulled? It's the one that states all Commonwealth citizens are now considered UK citizens and have a right to come and live and work in the UK.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If you believe some of the stuff that is postulated that MIGHT happen if we leave.....the you might feel like you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. I don't feel like that. I feel like we are taking back the steering wheel from a drunken driver who is taking us where we don't want to be.
I don't think I am alone in this.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I can't answer whether the law passed in 1947 has ever been rescinded, but I am sure that there might be someone who does. However, even if it hasn't. It did not have the same effect that the free movement of people from the ever growing EU has(and will continue to have).
Tell me, how long will it be before China is encouraged to join the EU?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Oh no please, this is NOT the usual put down, this is you trying your best to keep your argument going.

Look through your posts you haven't asked for anything, you just put forward your idea of a view again and again and again, then when that doesn't work you introduce 1.5 Billion or some other obscure none relevant fact.

Any-time you wish for a proper argument put forward something worthwhile, there are on site far more people and most of them can run rings around you with facts.

Myself? I'm tired and fed up with you, only because, you tried to get personal, a sure sign you know nowt'.

Oh and try to keep it short and to the point.

Yep you did it again.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

To use your thing, BTW, no actually I have a keyboard no need for txt messages,


By the way,

What has that got to do with the price of EU fish?

Just another of your random, useless, diversionary, bits of what?
:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

1) I came across a graph last week which compared the two groups of immigrants - made for depressing reading.

2) As long as it took Israel and Australia to take part in the Eurovision contest? lol

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I cannot see how Turkey can be considered to be European.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Aye, but I have an excuse for meandering about with my thoughts - I'm a woman. Men are supposed to be the ones with simple minds. :alright:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It's what's known as a "long stretch of imagination".

I think we have cause for concern especially since the new President took power.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Don't think it was ever repealed, just chopped, changed & modernised to suit under various guises by consecutive governments.

As to the unions, not all of them advise staying in:-


Militant Trade Union Breaks With TUC Leadership, Urging Members To Back Brexit

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Which two groups of immigrants? Where's the graph? What has this got to do with the EU?

Are you still trying to change the subject?, just to put a point across, the 1947 agreement was us upholding our end in an agreement that folk fighting and many dying, plus families in the second world war would be granted a British passport. Or am I wrong?

I don't mind being wrong, still want to know what this has to do with the yes/no vote?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Question: If we leave the EU how much extra documentation will exporters/importers incur and what would be the extra costs?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

No one really knows the answer to your question.....they can only guesstimate.....and that is part of the difficulty. Those who want to remain will magnify every possible difficulty to enhance their viewpoint.....they will not tell you that they don't honestly know.

Leaving will create a lot of work for the politicians......work that they would be much happier not to have to be involved with. They want to take the line of least resistance.
Whatever happened to the 'can do' attitude?
I will tell you, it was removed by the EU.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Pathetic. utterly Pathetic.

Sex war? What has that got to do with the EU unless...

...You have run out of truth.

So far,

You tried to insult me.

Didn't work.

Now in desperation you try to insult my sex, why? I'm only one member of that gender and didn't call your gender, a sign of personal weakness on your behalf?

I think perhaps you should come back tomorrow when you can sort through the 'I should have said this', instead of digging a deeper hole.

please come back tomos just say something worthwhile.
:p