Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Have just seen on Sky News,that Cameron has told his euro skeptic ministers they will be forced to resign, if they are saying they are for coming out of the E.U., anyone thinking that folk are going to get a free choice is seriously deluded, i may have it, but any Tory Minister who feels we should be out of Europe certainly dont.:mad: Seems hes hoping to brainwash the public, anyone who believes out he says is nuts imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Same as always, read what you can and make your own mind up which way to vote

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Always have Neil, just think its disgusting that MPs cant have a free vote.:mad:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Not only will MP's not have a free vote, the money for the yes campaign will be unlimited, whereas the campaign fund for the NO vote will be limited.
So you can see where this is going.
If The PM gets radical changes to the way the EU functions then he will feel that the voters will want to remain in the EU....But I have my reservations about a renegotiated position.
I feel sure that we would not get what the electorate want.

We are still going to be paying ludicrous amounts of money into this corrupt club, for very little benefit.
We are still going to be having rules imposed on us by unelected mandarins in Brussels.....and yes, I DO know we have MEP's, but their influence is that of a gnat bite on an elephants behind.....so small as to be insignificant.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Seems like Cameron has withdrawn the threat ... it's in your papers if you want to check it out.

I think the important thing for you guys, as it was in the Quebec referrenda, is the question. It can't be so confusing that the average idiot voter will give up on trying to understand it ... especially in a country where the main drug problem is the over-consumption of booze.;)

But there is one thing that you should take into account Margaret ... and it's something you don't like, and maybe don't want to think about: social media ... Twitter and Facebook. Big bankrolled ad campaigns are becoming a thing of the past. There's lots of stuff being written about this shiite, particularly in business publications. One reason that Rotten Ronnie's sales are falling ... apart from their "food" being crap ... is that smaller chains, who, in the past, could not afford big advertising campaigns are now taking to social media to push their product. Go on Facebook ... check out Martin's Bakery Oswaldtwistle.:alright: Whatever ... much of the campaign will likely be fought in the trenches of Twitter and Facebook.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Yes apparently the PM says his comments were misinterpreted(though I am not sure how what he is supposed to have said could be misinterpreted.....vote with party lines or be sacked.....nothing too ambiguous there).
As for Twitter, Facebook et al.....no chance I will be visiting those sites.... Come what may.I am not interested in advertising campaigns.....and if it can only be found on the social media sites then there are going to be a large proportion of people.....especially in the 'ancient ' age groups who will not be reached.
I have already made my mind up........unless the EU is prepared to let us be just trading partners.....no political strings.....then I will be with the NO campaign.
We signed up to a trading alliance, not to be part of the United States of Europe......and they can call me a 'little Englander'.....I do not consider myself to be European.....I am BRITISH!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The ordinary MPs will have a free vote( although vote No and it won't do their careers any good).
It's only Government Ministers who have to commit and vote Yes if they want to remain Ministers- Collective Responsibility, a rule of all Governments.

In my heart I would love to leave the EU and go it alone but lets face reality-

We're a little nation in a world of big ones.
We haven't got a viable Army any more. We've hardly any Navy left- we've even had to borrow France's aircraft carrier. If we ever get our own carriers we've no planes for them. The RAF is just a shadow, we even struggle to keep 4 old Tornadoes flying in Iraq. We couldn't do the Falklands again,we couldn't do Iraq again(the Yanks had to help us out even then), we couldn't do Afghanistan again(the Yanks had to help us out even then). Without the Yanks we'd have been speaking German( or Russian ) for many years now. The Russians are flying round our coasts just for a laugh, checking if we still have any planes flying.
Foreigners own our water, electricity, ports, car plants, etc.

On our own the EU would soon freeze our banking system out and wreck it(wouldn't you, they already want to take the business to Germany).
We're in it too deep already, get out and the EU will screw us every which way, to teach us a lesson and to warn any of the other 27 not to get ideas of grandeur. The Yanks have already said if we're out they'll drop us and pal up more with Germany( they know who runs the EU).
Some of the big foreign companies will pull out, it's cheaper to trade within a 27 country block with one set of rules(however complicated)than to trade with them from a single country with a different set of rules.

'Trade with the Commonwealth'? They still see us as Imperialists and can buy anything they need from China and Asia, just as we do so we couldn't sell them stuff we don't make any more. They don't want Broad Oak cotton or steam locomotives. We couldn't supply them anyway.

Cameron may well get some of the concessions he wants, if only because Merkel wants some of the same things and will be able to blame us for it.
I hope he does, if he does and we vote to stay in we'll have a chance of progress.
If he doesn't and we stay in we'll be a spent force.
If we vote out and get out( I'm still not sure if Cameron will find a way round that) we'll be a little squeak in a world of shouters.

I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. I'll probably vote to stay in and weep as I do it.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have always regarded meself as a realist Gordon, n theres no way on this earth,i will vote to remain in something that resembles sod all like what we joined.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

There are other small nations which seem to do very well outside the EU.....Switzerland is one of these nations......Swiss and Banks seem to belong in the same sentence.
We traded with the world before the EU Gordon and you are(like me) old enough to remember those days...and yes...I know trade has changed a lot since then but that doesn't mean that we won't be trading again.......and if EU nations are petty enough to stop trading with us, then we find markets elsewhere...the EU, as a market, is shrinking.
Some of the stuff that is being put about is just scaremongering.
Our economy is doing better than any other in he EU, this despite the forecast from Christine Lagarde(head of the IMF) that we were going to struggle.
The greatest thing that Gordon Brown did for us was to keep us out of the Euro.

The EU is a corrupt money hungry organisation with no real respect for national sovereignty....for ANY nation, not just Britain.

We are more valuable to the EU than they are to us......and despite them considering us to be a pain in the butt, they want us to stay in because the Brits play by the rules.....they observe the rules just like they queue.....in an orderly fashion and without question. And we contribute too. Just think of the money that could be saved if we were not in this club.
The French cherry pick which rules they will follow and which they won't...nothing happens to them......do you think the French will accept Muslim women wearing the full face veil...No they do not...does this get them in trouble with ECHR...well, it seems not to.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I agree with you totally cashman- this is not what we voted for and were promised.
I believe our leaders(all parties) knew how it would develop and even wanted it that way. The fear of a European wide or World wide war happening again drove them, maybe the Germans were canny enough to see a better way of conquering Europe.
But it's like the point of no return for an aircraft, you wish you hadn't taken off, you'd like to turn back but you've gone too far, you have to carry on. That's where we are now.
It won't make any difference to me, I'm too old , perhaps not to you although you're only a lad.
However we vote it's for our children's' future and their children's future. We shouldn't vote in anger at our betrayal, we should think what may be best for them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think its best for them outa the damn thing.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Me too.
My vote won't be in anger....it will be carefully thought out and considered.
The Common Market was what we were sold...not a a United states of Europe.
It was a dubious concept from the start.
This organisation has not had a budget passed in 19 years......but yet it continues to limp along.....and there are countries in the organisation that are limping along.....Greece is about as close to bankruptcy as it can be(and may be forced to leave by the end of this month as they cannot meet the 300million Euro payment that is necessary to service the loan from the ECB). Spain and Portugal are also in dire straits with France not so far behind.
The conductor of the EU orchestra(Angela Merkel) is having a hard time holding it together.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

IM PREDICTING A %95 VICTORY TO STAY IN

regardless of how the votes go thats the result we will get ..

oh hang on thats labour statistics we have a Tory government now..

recalculating

comes out the same they also have rich pals who benefit from been in the EU and they also want euro mp jobs later on in life

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thats it in a nutshell to me, even though Cameron has now done a U-Turn on the personal voting, its utter bull, all it means is vote against n yeh will get no further in my government, plus many will vote to stay in, cos of natural greed, thats one hell of a gravy train they dont wanna miss.:rolleyes:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I just love this one-

Belgium defies France with euro coin marking Napoleon defeat - Telegraph

Good on the Belgians!
The EU- don't they all just love each other?

Couldn't we have a 50pence coin with Wellington or St Helena on it?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

the threat is out there and his position is very clear and no amount of U-Turns will alter what was first said

if the OUT vote looses the stench of a corrupt referendum will hang over it and people will be back to square one demanding another referendum that is seen to be fair

this wont stop cameron standing up in 5 years saying he delivered what he promised

MPs are very cocky that way

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

They are easily capable of electoral fraud when it suits.
There are rumours that some went on in Scotland.
Scottish referendum vote-rigging claims spark calls for recount | Politics | The Guardian

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

don't be mental as them they are a cult with no policies. 2 lottery winners financed the snp by the tune of 4 million 2 lottery winners who were taking british tax payers money in benefits .these photos have been proved to have been taken before they were even counted cctv proved this . they are sore losers.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

All this referendum is bull,we cannot get out,look at Ireland they kept voting till it suited the e.u.What is really needed to stop all the migration is an e.u. minimum wage payable in all member states and the scrapping of tax credits.Camoron is a numpty.Look at Greece,does anyone think they will be allowed to defect.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

what people forget is that MPs are elected to represent the people

problem is the people doing the forgetting are the Mps

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Sorry, but despite the cuts (which I don't agree with) we still retain the means to be a force in these modern times.

Our carriers are on order and in build and the J.S.F. (Joint Strike Fighter) will be ready to sit on them when completed. In the meantime we have made arrangements with allies to plug the temporary gap. We have Tornadoes based in the Falklands along with other hardware to act as a deterrent to the Argentines, not to mention countless troops based in or around the area..........all of which are deterring Argentina from going any further than foolhardy "rhetoric"

Your post is worded extremely badly and implies that we fought in Iraq & Afghanistan and relied on the U.S.A. to back us up....Quite incorrect.....we only committed a limited amount of resources and troops to support causes/ campaigns that where in essence American led. Albeit at a significant cost......and no-one should ever forget that.....

The comment about speaking German or Russian "for years now" is laughable....Unless you've forgotten history, it was a combined effort of British, American and Russian troops and hardware that stopped Hitler in his tracks.

As for the last sentence, We regularly scramble a token gesture (i.e a limited and appropriate response) of our air defences to intercept these probes.....Eurofighter Typhoons..... a very sophisticated and high tech fighter aircraft that I've had the privelage of working on ( along with the Tornado & other aircraft)...

What goes reported is how often the Russians send these probes to play the cat and mouse games that were commonplace during the "cold war"....have you ever stopped to think that we might be doing the same to probe Putin & the Russian defences ????

In summary, I feel your ill advised "comments" are an insult to our armed forces and the next time you take to the keyboard, I'd suggest you do some research before you spout your "opinion".

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We couldn't even cope properly with the Blitz. Just imagine a full scale invasion.

At the end of the war Russia was at a military production stage where it could have steamed rolled across ALL of Europe. The only thing stopping it was America and its bomb.

Hate to say it but without America he is right, we would be speaking either German or Russian.


probably true.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Couldn't cope properly with the Blitz? What history books do you read?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

And your evidence for this statement???
Can we take it that you were there in person? Or is this just an assumption you have made based on no evidence at all.

Your comment will be seen as offensive by those who did survive the blitz.
I don't happen to be one of those, but my mother is....she survived the blitz in Sheffield......her mother was a fire warden and her father was an ARP warden.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think mattys comment is very offensive to the people and relatives who survived the Blitz, Seems to be the norm wi some these days.:rolleyes::(

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

His comments add weight to my concerns that Darwin got it wrong with his theory of evolution.
Obviously this chap cannot read or even understand that had we (the British), not survived the blitz we could not have gone on to win WWII. In fact all the allied countries that opposed Hitler and his allies were at some time subjected to a blitz of one type or another and all survived in some form or other.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I often wonder whether some folk stop and think before engaging the" brain" and asking the digits to tap away at the keyboard.......

That comment is conclusive proof that it's a definatate no-no......:o

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Having just spent near on the last 2 hours watching a live stream of the launch of "GO - Grassroots out" a cross party campaign for the UK to get out of the EU. I must admit a certain quiet pride that there are folk still prepared to stand up for & who believe in UK as capable enough to go it alone.

As usual, the "Farage" showed his savvy showmanship & Liam Fox put across a well reasoned argument, even Kate Hoey showed that the Labour doggerel should be kicked into touch.

Now, if only enough of the neutered, liberalist, self loathing, whinging leftists, can take on board the plainly stated facts without resorting to their typical yowls condemning rational thinkers as Nazis & Racists ....... the UK could well be back on the road back to self governance & sensibility, one can only hope.


Just a little aside, I don't see that any of the MSM were running with this story, especially the Brussels Bullshting Co-operative!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

i wonder if the British are going to be conned and hoodwinked by cameron like the Scottish were with their referendum

he stayed quiet right up to the last point then dropped a load of scary tales of doom and gloom if they left on them and they folded like deckchairs

at least we will get a referendum even if the deck will be stacked in favour of staying in by their greedy few that benefit from been in it..Especially euro mps who have everything to loose and them that want to be future euro mp's

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He's already trying it on, but as has been proven time & time again he's just a self serving traitorous wretch. Hopefully the bulk of Joe & Josephina Public will come to their senses & give him & the other EU leaning, British hating muppets a proper kicking at the polls!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think the current state of Europe is a great worry....And now Jeremy Corbyn is telling us that we are not doing enough for the poor refugees in the camps in France.
He is going to try and persuade the British public that we should open our hearts, our towns and our homes to these.
Has he learned nothing from the antics of the refugee men in the cities of Europe at New year.

These are illegal immigrants, they have no papers....We do not know their origins. Whether they are sponsored to cause harm by ISIS.....whether they are criminals.
If these were true refugees they would settle in the nearest safe haven, rather than trying to get to Britain.
It is alright for the likes of Jeremy Corbyn.....he will not be inconvenienced by refugees that are allowed into the UK.
There is only one answer to the mass migration.....stop them on their own shores....Turn them back.
Bring back proper border controls.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You wouldn't chuckle, living here in Germany & talking to folk, the general consensus is that enough is enough. Merkel isn't exactly the flavour of the month despite what the MSM would have you believe, "Mutti" has definitely overstepped the mark & Adolf & Eva aren't overly happy bunnies, there's a quiet swell & a leaning towards the right (although most folk won't speak openly about it) due to Germanys recent past, too much "VolksSchuld".

That said though, the dilution of the "Aryan" race through marriage to other nationals, the pure German is slowly being replaced with a European hominid, that & the attitude of the younger Germans is focusing the opinion that the "sins of our fathers" are not our concern. All well & good, but the new liberalism is just as damning.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The latest piece of pro EU propaganda to hit my white sack (I mean the one that recycles paper NOT a racial reference to my crown jewels), is four pages of short comments the equal of which must be getting a D in secondary school political debate.

I've tried to find it online so you can see it for yourselves but there doesn't seem to be a page for it & wiki isn't very informative about the people in charge of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britai...nger_in_Europe

It seems that Will Straw (is he Jacks lad?) is the promoter of this item a quick search has him as the Executive Director of Britain Stronger in Europe yet he isn't mentioned in wiki as part of the board.

Anyone however can sign up online to the parent site of this info pack by going to Britain Stronger In Europe

The site gives an idea of the contents of the free paper.

They will have to work much harder to convince me of their version of the truth.

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As previously mentioned, the lunacy of the left will destroy us all! (this just in in the "Daily Fail")

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413566/Port-Calais-closed-migrants-storm-harbour-make-Spirit-Britain-ferry-desperate-bid-reach-UK.html

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Ma received a piece of Pro EU propaganda last week with her mail.....it was wrapped in a flyer for the co-op.
She gave it to me to ask me what I thought of it.......I told her it wasn't even fit to wipe your BTM on.
We got a similar publication this week in our mail......it went into the paper box for fire lighting.

There is nothing that will convince me that we are better off in the EU. We are not part of this club......we are unwelcome because we want to stand up for our own sovereignty,our own traditions.....we do not want to be told what we can do by Brussels - especially when we can see other nations picking and choosing which EU rules they will follow and which they won't.... we do not want to be added to the European mix(well, I certainly don't)

However I feel that we may get bamboozled in some way(I not sure right now just how).......and that Brexit is unlikely(we may be sent back again to vote until we come up with the right answer).

I do not see David Cameron negotiating anything like a better deal for the UK...and feel that we could be hoodwinked in this way.....into believing that he has done a good deal.
Maybe the EU will break up in the not too distant future.(the migrant crisis might just hasten this)
You cannot yoke a donkey to a race horse and expect a good outcome...and this, in effect, is what has happened.
The poorer nations in the EU show this to be true.
It has been a social experiment in politics and it has failed.
It isn't even any good as a trading alliance anymore.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Will Straw is the son of Jack Straw Less

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Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Don't be shy mate, open up & say what you feel! ;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Never were truer words spoken....The French and the Belgians do not like us and I feel that many things are done in the EU which are aimed at undermining us as a nation.....showing us, making fools of us.....and I hate them for it.

I do not want to be part of an organisation which spits in the face of democracy, that allows unelected bureaucrats to try to humble us.
If we are such an asset then why do they do this?
The real answer is that they need us far more than we need them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I should have made myself clearer, it was the French and Belgian bureaucrats that I was referring to Retlaw, not the man in the street.
I guess the public over in those countries are much the same as here.....treated with contempt by those who purport to have our interests at heart......as long as our interests keep them on the gravy train and comfortably supported with cash and cushioned from reality that is.

I must get some better anti cynicism pills....these seem to be wearing off.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

the latest scare tactic is what will the tories do to the poor and working class if there isnt the EU to answer to

My guess is they will get voted out

kinda how democracy worked before we joined the EU

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

For those of you that it might interest "GO" grassroots out are streaming a live rally now, it can be seen on Breitbart London website.

just saying mind. ;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

So the boy blunder "Call me Dave" has done a deal for the UK, apparently (according to him) it's the right deal for Europe & UK ...... really? The clown should be concentrating on what's in the best interests of UK & not Europe, let them sort out their own shyte!

From what I can see there's no sign of repatriating power to our courts, we'll still have to give precedence to European courts. No control over borders if it gainsays EU tenets & as to clamping down on benefits to foreigners who've never put anything into the system but are queuing up with open hands for whatever they can get!

Absolute garbage! And to top it all, when all the other 27 leaders go back home & present it to their own people there's going to be a right carry on. No, this isn't over, not by a long shot! My personal view is that cutting all ties with Europe & the UK's complete withdrawal from the EU is the only way to achieve our sovereignty. (And I've been living in the middle of Europe for the last 32 years)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

"I have negotiated a deal to give the UK special status in the EU." Seems to me that I've heard something like that before ... mmm, it'll come to me:confused:

Just when Britain needs a Churchill to stand up for her, the people get a Chamberlain ... ah, now I remember.:D

Not my problem tho', eh. I'm more interested in what's happening with the TPP.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Everyone knows that when you are negotiating a deal on anything......you ask for far more than you would expect to get.
This is because, in the interests of bargaining you know very well you are going to have to give a little, to compromise(or at least to be seen to be making a compromise)....be accommodating to the other parties ideas.
David Cameron asked for very little, got even less......and with no guarantees that any of what has been agreed would be legally binding AFTER the results of the referendum.
What this means is, if the British public are stupid enough to see this as the real deal and opt to stay in the EU.....every single thing that has been agreed on yesterday can be thrown out.
Now I don't call that a deal. I call that a STITCH UP.
We do NOT need the EU......but they do need us to be in, there is a huge danger that if the UK were to leave the whole of the EU would crumble......and they know that.

I have no doubt at all about how my vote will be. There is nothing on Gods green earth that would persuade me to vote to stay in the EU.
This will be the second time I will have voted on this issue and in all of those years I have not seen anything about the EU that has changed my opinion one iota.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I agree wi MargaretP, they can shove it were the sun dont shine, Benefits will still be paid to people abroad, but pro-rata to meet their cost of living, thats taking the pish.:rolleyes:

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The big problem was that we sent a boy (in terms of politics)to do the job of a man.
We actually do not have a statesman that is up to the job of getting fairness from the EU.

The EU do not like us(not that that gives me one second of a worry...because I do not like them...we are not of Europe at all)and want to see us grovel.....they want our money, but our voice is never heard.....we are NEVER considered.
For goodness sake get us out of there.
I am saying this, but I believe that we will be like the Chinese prisoner in a cell with two doors.....one door leads to certain gory death, the other to freedom.....and we choose to stay imprisoned for fear of making a bold choice.
I think we are ensnared in an organisation which has none of our aims or values in its thoughts.

And for anyone who thinks I am being a 'Little Englander' I would say I am being true to my patriotic self.
If that is a sin, then I am guilty as charged.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Made the UK the "once" powerful nation it was, dominating the majority of the known world from our little group of islands just off the coast of Europe in the cold grey Atlantic.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In 1975 I voted to come out of the EEC .

I am not happy with referendums . We are a Parliamentary democracy and elect MPs to represent us .

Be that as it may , since we have referendums I will use my right to vote in them .

I have not been at ease with the notion of coming out of the EU . Those who want the UK to come out of the EU have not really presented a viable alternative , and I am concerned about the effects of leaving on our economy , especially on jobs . As Neil Kinnock said in his famous anti-Militant Tendency speech in 1985 , " You don't play politics with people's jobs . " If leaving the EU results in one person losing his/her job , it will be one lost job too many .

Ideally I would love to see us become a self-sufficient Socialist democracy , untethered from globalised Capitalism......but I suppose I will have to simply keep on dreaming on .

However , over recent months , and watching the shenanigans of our politicians whom I believe have just been playing party political games in the so-called "renegotiaions" , I am drawing close to a position where I sense that I may be voting NO as I did in 1975 .

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

JCB....it isn't even smoke and mirrors to bamboozle us.
It is clear to me that the EU has no intention of honouring any of these deals if the electorate vote to stay in the EU.....it has stated as much, so the 'deal' means absolutely nothing.
The proposal of sending home the EU migrants who fail to find a job within six months.....how risible is that when we have such porous borders that we haven't a clue who is here and who actually should be here.
Money that we contribute in taxes is still going to leach out of the country ( to enhance the economies of those countries)in child benefit(ok, so it will be at the rate paid in those countries - big deal).
As for trade, Jeremy Corbyn has just stated that the 'majority' of our trade is with the EU....this is not substantiated with facts....we only do 44% of trade with the EU.
Now I know I was pretty rubbish at maths in school, but I know that 44% is not a majority.
If our goods and services are competitive then trade will still continue with the EU.....ok so tariffs might be imposed....should that stop us?
I don't think it should. There is a big world out there.....we can trade in it.

The Emergency Brake is another failure as it will be left to EU members as to whether it should be applied.

The EU is anti democracy, it has shown that many times.
I do not want unelected representatives to be deciding laws that apply to me.
I do not want bureaucrats who cannot be held responsible, or to be ditched by democratic means to be deciding things that affect my life.

I would only be persuaded to stay in if our position in the EU was only for trade purposes......on second thoughts, not even that would persuade me because I know that their trading rules favour them, not us!
I will definitely be voting NO.
Not that I think it will make a jot of difference. I cannot see us getting out of it at all.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In theory yes, but in the reality those days are long gone. When was the last time a "British" governments were free to make decisions for the British people without having to ensure they weren't infringing some directive/ruling/diktat that came out of Brussels?

I find it hard to believe that there are some folk who still can't see that the more enmeshed we become with Europe, the less our individual sovereign rights as "British nationals" & nation state can be maintained. The continual whittling away of our choices continues every day through all levels of our daily existence micro managed by faceless functionaries within the corridors of power in Brussels.

Our own weak willed, submissive, political classes are meekly, taking it for team GB, then heaping it out on Joe & Josephina public to suck it all up! No mate, those who still believe our democracy is run for "us" by our chosen representatives have well & truly been shafted over & quieted by the continuous stream of cultural marxist effluent pumped out of the sewers of Brussels!

Get the biggest spoon you can find & keep gagging it down! As that's the way it'll be (but without the light sprinkling of sugar on top) if the UK votes to stay in the EU.

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I could not have put it better myself Son.
Every word is true.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Your own views & pretty damn spot on too Ma! :)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Are mp's votes not confidential, as in an election?

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

i have no doubt in my mind that any agreement either wont be as we are led it to be or completely overturned by the EU within weeks of the referendum ending

all benefits to kids outside of the country should end with immediate effect not in 3 or 4 years time mainly because most of these kids dont even exist there has been no check that they exists and parents wernt even asked for so much as a birth certificate to prove they existed

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

If things carry on in the same vein then we could do away with MP 's and turn the
Palace of Westminster into dorms for asylum seekers and refugees.

The time spent in hammering out the minutiae of these so called deals took our attention away from the growing problems created by migrants in the EU.
(Also from the dire economic situations in the Eurozone....was this planned as a diversional ploy or is it just a coincidental thing).
A crisis which was worsened by badly thought out idealistic 'solutions' which far from solving the problem made it infinitely worse.
The EU is a donkey running in a race for thoroughbreds. It is too big, too ungainly with far too many members who cannot agree that there is daylight outside.
This corrupt institution has, for the 21st year, failed to balance its books. It fails to rein in its spending, it does not ditch the projects which have proved to be worthless(like the single currency) but pours more and more money (our money)into them to try and make them work.

The EU is intent on keeping the status quo.....this is despite the fact that some of the members recognise that it cannot exist without some sweeping reforms.....and this is borne out by reports from the OECD(Organisation for Economic Co operation and Development).

I am going to have to seriously curtail my viewing of TV over the weekend.....all this guff on the EU is seriously damaging my health. I can feel my BP touching the ceiling right now.
I have attached a duster to it so that it can knock the dust off the light fitting.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I don't think they can be confidential. If you are campaigning to stay in the EU is is clear where your x is going to be placed....similarly if you campaign for the opposite.
Anyone(and ther are a few MP's) who looks at this deal and thinks we have gained anything, is wrong in the head.
After all the MEP 's can rip up all of these 'deals' if the UK votes to stay in.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they will do that.
So all that to-ing and fro-ing to Brussels that David Cameron has done is for nothing....we have actually got nowt...not only that we have irritated and put the hackles up of other members.
We'll be paying for that for a long time, believe me.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I go along with that . I am just listening to Any Questions on Radio 4 .

One pro EU politician has said that our streets will be safer by staying in the EU .

One anti EU politician has said that if we leave the EU our taxes , prices and something else will all go down .

One pro EU politician has said that staying in the EU is better for our environment .

A millionaire donor to the Labour Party who is anti EU has said that the Labour Party is at fault in not specifying which issues are in need of renegotiation . But he is silent about which issues need renegotiating .

Is this the waffle we are going to have endure up to the referendum on June 23rd ?

I'm open to persuasion , but I would like some informative debate instead of what we are getting now .

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

How anyone can think this is a deal worth supporting,is totally beyond me.:confused:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

David Cameron has just said that he believes that Britain will be better off in a'reformed' EU, but everything that has come to pass so far shows that the EU is not only reluctant to any kind of reform, it is resistant to reforming.now the difference in the words reluctant and resistant might be a bit subtle, but they are the nub of the issue.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I have just seen the minister for transport telling us that he thinks the PM got a great deal in negotiations.
I am glad he doesn 't do my shopping as I fear he would not know a great deal from a hole in the road.
And yes, JCB....We are going to be fed this pap from now until the 23rd of June. It is going to seem like a long long time......and I can see me having to remove all heavy items from the vicinity of the TV screen...either that or find a dry cave somewhere.
We are going to be told all kind of fairy stories about what will befall us if we put our x in the NO box.....Because it is far easier for the politicians if we can be convinced to this view. Coming out of the EU will take some brainwork...for which some MP's seem to lack the appropriate tools.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Its much about looking after yerself if yer n MP. seems to me they lose and then become upon an E.U. position, this has occured wi many, can people not see this?:confused: the general public do not matter one jot to these people,

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Whilst he may have an agreement of sorts it could all be rejected by any of the individual countries parliaments - after our referendum. Each country has, I believe, the power of veto.
In other words what he thinks he has gained could be rejected in it's entirety by any one of the other members of the EU so we would be in exactly the same position, if not a weakened one, that we have now.
I already know which way I shall be voting.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I was annoyed last night watching the BBC news where they cut from David Cameron's speech in Brussels, to a bimbo reporter, in Downing Street who hadn't a clue about any of the details but waffled for a good few minutes anyway. If it was the final of Strictly or a mind numbing awards ceremony, the program would have been extended and later programs would have been delayed.
We are told DC has made a deal but the devil is in the detail and merely saying that in-work benefits are to be phased in is nowhere near enough information for me.
I wrote to our MP (CON) asking if the same level of benefits would be paid to me if I was a migrant in any of the other member states. His response was to quote some bull**** EU directive about it being illegal to discriminate against a citizen of another member state.
A migrant worker being able to claim child benefit for children who do not even live in this country absolutely beggars belief and the fact that we have to renegotiate such matters with a bunch of greedy bureaucrats proves just how much of our sovereignty we have given away to the faceless wonders of Europe.

For a union of any sort to work it has to be a level playing field for all. The vastly different levels of taxation, subsidies and benefits proves that we are very much at a disadvantage.

As for negotiating a better deal, they can't even negotiate a deal with Wales and Scotland where we are all on a level playing field.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Barrie, you are right and I have pointed this out in a number of posts.
In essence he went out and came back with nothing but horse feathers.

If the British public swallow this as a deal, then they are far dafter than I took them for.
We have gained nothing and in the process, I believe we have alienated other members.....and this veto would be their idea of 'socking it to us'
No....let's get the hell out of there.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Exactly! And that is why an exit from the EU is the only feasible way the UK & her populace can be self defining & regain self governance.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I lost count of the number of times he used the words "Reformed Europe" .

That's going to be the mantra for the next 4 months .

We aren't part of Europe anymore ......we are now in Reformed Europe .

That's going to be the level of debate ......soundbites......no substance .

I just want to know where I can get some information so that I can make an informed decision .

The radio and TV just present the politicians , and I learn nothing from them .

The newspapers just tell me how I should vote , so that's no help .

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Just use common sense mate, many differing views why even bother? they will just tell yeh what yeh want to hear depending on their viewpoint, anyone can see hes come back wi sod all.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I think you have to take information from a variety of sources and accept that ALL of it will be biased towards one side or the other.....then you have to try and see through the myths(like the one used by Jeremy Corbyn about most of our trade coming from the EU)....you have to try and research facts from organisations that are(or puport to be)independent.
This is a lot to ask of the general public, and very very many of them will find it difficult to plough through the bumf and cut to digestible facts.....but that is what is needed.
You cannot depend on politicians or media sources to do this job without bias....it is not possible for them to be unbiased.
Most people will go with their gut feelings.....and I think that many people will distrust what the politicians tell them.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Brings to mind something that a Tory MP said ... forget who it was and not energetic enough to find out ... about Cameron's "polishing the poo". I assume that's the stuff you are talking about.;) The deal is getting some coverage over here; but not as much as the S. Carolina Primary ... for obvious reasons. But one Canadian reporter based in London, Nahla Ayed, came up with this: "In the certain absence of [fundamental change in the EU] members of the Britain Stronger In campaign are likely going to have to put Cameron's feeble deal aside and focus on why things are better under the status quo." Italics are mine. If that's the case, I don't see much point in a four-month campaign.:confused:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It doesn't matter how many rose petals you put on a pile of manure...It is still manure, it still stinks and you don't want it shoved under your nose.
That is what this deal(if you can call it that without being done under the trade description act) is.....manure!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The EU referendum reminds me very much of the last verse of The Eagles song....
Hotel California.
It goes something like this....
The last thing I remember was running for the door.
I had to find the way back to the place I was before
'Relax' said the night man
'We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like,
But you can never leave'.

That, in truth, is what the members of the EU are saying to us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Kinda like Weapons of Mass Destruction, eh ... :rolleyes: As far as I can see, or read, (and I do like to keep myself informed about what's going on in the world) there is no deal that will fundamentally alter the status quo. The "Deal" is necessary. Cameron knows he can't sell the status quo, just as Blair couldn't sell the Iraq War as something Bush wanted to do just for the hell of it. What was needed by those who want to stay in was a smoke screen ... burning shiite; the mind boggles and the tummy churns. As far as I can see, that's what this deal is. Added bonus for Cameron is that folks will debate the deal as if it were real. This will deflect attention from the fundamental issue, Britain's survival as a sovereign state.

Cameron truly deserves The Dorwin Award.

Watchman's Words: The Dorwin Award

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Eric, I had not heard of these awards.
I reckon that David Cameron is a candidate.
Yes, people will debate the deal as if it were something real rather than the steam from the pile of manure that it is.
Thank you Eric, for again, furthering my education.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Will Cameron last long enough to pick up the award?


Misquotation: ?A week is a long time in...

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Undoubtedly, the lips are moving but all I'm getting is blahdeblahdeblah!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Like listening to the old lady, eh.;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Goo, guff and dribble.
Not what you are saying Son....But the stuff coming out of Cameron.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Not really, she will be doing it innocently out of habit, he does it deliberately with the intent to fool.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Nah mate, I go into MMAL (Married mans auto listening) when she's off on one, picking out the relevant points so I can give a good impression that I've been listening when the inquisition starts. :D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I used to do that beautifully with mine, until one time she decided to test me by asking what she'd been talking about.

I almost got away with it by explaining that what she had been saying had been a little too deep for me to understand but I didn't wish to keep asking her to repeat herself just so I could understand.

All went quiet for about 5 minutes, then when she'd finished her version of thinking she gave me a real roasting for trying to baffle her with bullshine again!

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

The intent to fool is too benevolent Less.
What he is really doing is lying......misleading us into thinking he is working for the betterment of the British public, when what he is actually doing is the work of those in Brussels....with the view to tying us into an organisation which is detrimental to British sovereignty.
It is a malign intention.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Just been listening to the Labour luvvie shadow minister for Europe on Radio 5....

apparently if we vote out, we will cause all those pensioners currently living in Spain to return to England and become a drain on our services (gotta love the modern socialist values :rolleyes:)....

...and according to her we are safer in Europe because every 30 years up to 1945 all of Europe committed genocide on each other (guessing she got that particular gem from Mao's little red book)

She also said that her constituency in the north east was earning billions a year for this country from Europe because of the production output of this particular area

It's becoming increasingly obvious that the labour party has stopped vetting it's mp's, councillors and county councillors on intelligence levels, apparently they will take any halfwit nowadays

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You have to laugh at the timing...

no sooner is cameron on TV shoving his worthless platitudes germany kick off lol



staying in means more asylum seekers and migrants and Germany will push like hell to get their way regardless of what cameron says he has agreed.Despite what cameron says he has got the referendum hasnt even happened yet and germany are already at it lol

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

i disagree

after years in the sun one harsh UK winter should finish em off

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

and some of them are being taken on despite failing the rigorous 'halfwit' test.

Maybe it has everything to do with the fact that some people will swallow anything that is given to them as a fact. They haven't got either the intellect,or the curiosity to check out what they are told.Or to even question the agenda for being given this myth as a fact.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It is no surprise to anyone that Germany has a vengeful approach to issues.
Last week the German trade minister Herr Krichbaum gloatingly stated that if the UK left the EU then the EU might be forced to apply trading tariffs.
This was an attempt at scaremongering, at making us think that this is a valid reason to stay.
We could do the same.....because we actually buy more from Germany than we sell to them. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, Aldi, Lidl.
The truth is that next to Germany we are the biggest nett contributor(but seem to have the least influence).
If we left,then it would be Germany left to sort out the dire mess that is Europe.(and left to shoulder the financial burden of that mess)
So they actually need us far more than we need them.
You only have to look at the way Germany bullied Greece in the financial crisis.
Yes, OK, the Greeks did not live within their means, but come on....the EU has not had a budget ratified for 21 years. That is a bit of 'pot and kettle'.
The better outcome would have been for Greece to be removed from the single currency.
For them to go back to the Drachma, devalue and at least they would then have been able to become competitive in tourism again.....to be masters of their own financial fate.

There is much about the EU that is bad.....and the bullying vengefulness of the way it treats members is something that needs to be considered when you are putting your x in the box.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

It has been going on for a while actually AM. Merkel is getting it from all sides, some of her own party members are grumbling about the situation & the CSU they're the Bayerische sister party of Merkels CDU are making noises about her being placed before a German superior court for contravening the German constitution.

De Maiziere, is bumping his gums because other EU countries aren't prepared to take their quota (decided in the main by Germany) of "assigned gimmegrants", especially the Visegrad 4, who are rightly telling her to "Poke it where the sun don't shine!" As far as they're concerned it's a German matter as "You invited them, so you see how you get on with it, none of our concern Guv!"

To quote old Cpl Jonsey about the Germans "They don't like it up 'em!" And that's exactly what's happening more often, turning Merkel & her fawning sycophants in to proper miserable "SauerKrauts"

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Latest on the list of defections to the out/no campaign appears to be the court jester BoJo! Yep, the mayor of London is to throw his weight behind the leave campaign ...... now, whether or not that's a good thing or not I guess only time will tell.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I don't think it can be a bad thing.
He is high profile and lots of people take notice of what he says.
As long as he doesn't do a last minute defection.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

That's just it though, he tends to be flighty & flippant, added to that he tends to change direction with the wind.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

He's not daft, he's on a 'win/win'.
If we vote out he'll be the wise one who got it right, Cameron will resign and Boris will be favourite for new leader.
If we vote stay in Cameron finishes at the end of this Parliament anyway and when the EU Parliament screws us Boris can say' I told you so' and again he'll be favourite for new leader.
He's a politician, looking for what's best for him, not us.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

We have been at war with France,Germany, Portugal, Holland, Spain and probably many other now so called E. U. countries that I cannot bring to mind at the moment.

Now here is an idea to muse over; How about we apply to be the 51st state of the good old U.S.A. instead of trying to be the 1st state of the E.U.

Just another thought to ponder over, Donald Duck, (sorry Trump), as our next leader ? yea, i'm up for that, (well we can't really get much worse than what we already have), (can we ?)

Stay happy as always, Your's, Taddy.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You've obviously not had many dealings with our colonial cousins have you Tads? We need closer ties with the Spams like we do the rest of Europe, not the best of ideas mate. ;)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

At least thay speak our language, (well almost); by the way,where does the name "Spams", come from ? :confused::confused:

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

I am well for leaving the E.U. Taddy, but would prefer to stop in, rather than become the 51st state. I love the yanks, but their government is completely useless imho.

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

You are right, my comment was just (tongue in cheek),;);)

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

Thank the lord fer that, thought yeh had lost it mate.:D

Re: Referendum is a load of crap.!!
 

In the vernacular of your (1980's-1990's) Squaddie those of us that had dealings with them referred to them as "Spams". (self propelled American morons)

I know, hardly pc & all that guff, but that was the way of it & I'm pretty damn sure they had reciprocal epithets for us too. :)