Accrington Web
   

Home Gallery Arcade Blogs Members List Today's Posts
Go Back   Accrington Web > AccyWeb > General Chat
Donate! Join Today

General Chat General chat - common sense in here please. Decent serious discussions to be enjoyed by everyone!


Welcome to Accrington Web!

We are a discussion forum dedicated to the towns of Accrington, Oswaldtwistle and the surrounding areas, sometimes referred to as Hyndburn! We are a friendly bunch please feel free to browse or read on for more info.
You are currently viewing our site as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, photos, play in the community arcade and use our blog section. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!



Like Tree37Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 13-11-2012, 19:18   #61
God Member
 
Eric's Avatar
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

All is not lost, good people. Just read in the news that your PM is "fed up" with the whole issue ... now things will start moving
Eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Accrington Web
Old 13-11-2012, 19:30   #62
Senior Member+
 
churchfcrules's Avatar
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

just hang the F3cker!, apologise afterwards, could live with that!

oh and any "fine" we may receive would probably be cheaper than combined benefits, prosecution costs, defence costs, and presumably the cost of the armed guard that no doubt this creature will have posted to protect him from us nasty British people
__________________
Hey fiddle-dee-dee, its the green dotted line for me!

join me on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/61983378@N07/
churchfcrules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 19:33   #63
God Member
 
Eric's Avatar
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Hey ... just noticed that this guy is not a British citizen ... so, apart from the EU and other bs human rights group, there would be no problem with giving him the bum's rush. I did a little checking, and it seems the only quarantee that one cannot be deported from Canada is Canadian citizenship.
Eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 20:38   #64
Rest in Peace
 
claytonx's Avatar
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric View Post
All is not lost, good people. Just read in the news that your PM is "fed up" with the whole issue ... now things will start moving
Just words Eric, I think we have heard them before.
claytonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 21:03   #65
Coffin Dodger.

 
cashman's Avatar
 
Jewel Quest Champion!
Cribbage Master Champion!
Addiction Solitaire Champion!

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric View Post
Hey ... just noticed that this guy is not a British citizen ... so, apart from the EU and other bs human rights group, there would be no problem with giving him the bum's rush. I did a little checking, and it seems the only quarantee that one cannot be deported from Canada is Canadian citizenship.
Utter crap mate, Yeh can't even deport "Illegals" here if it infringes on their Human Rights.
__________________
N.L.T.B.G.Y.D. Do not argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
cashman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 21:06   #66
Beacon of light

 
Margaret Pilkington's Avatar
Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

They don't even know who the illegals are - so pretty slim chance of deporting them
__________________
Stop wearing a wishbone where your backbone should be.
Margaret Pilkington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 21:09   #67
Coffin Dodger.

 
cashman's Avatar
 
Jewel Quest Champion!
Cribbage Master Champion!
Addiction Solitaire Champion!

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington View Post
They don't even know who the illegals are - so pretty slim chance of deporting them
Oh they know who some of em are. Like the guy that knocked down n killed that poor sod down Blackburn, Still here i believe.
__________________
N.L.T.B.G.Y.D. Do not argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
cashman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 21:15   #68
God Member
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington View Post
Sky news reports that Theresa May thinks that Justice Mitting(who was in charge of the proceedings) applied the 'wrong legal test' to this judgement....and stated that the government will continue to press for this mans removal.
Yes the government will make an appeal in a UK court, because, as I said this latest ruling was not made in Strasbourg..it was made in a UK court by UK judges.
Mancie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 21:17   #69
Beacon of light

 
Margaret Pilkington's Avatar
Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

He is only one of many.
Due to our ineffective border controls, there are hundreds of thousands in this country who should not be here...and worse still, they may be offered an amnesty, basically because it seems like too much hard work to trace and deport them.
__________________
Stop wearing a wishbone where your backbone should be.
Margaret Pilkington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 21:26   #70
God Member
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

I seem to recall an amnesty for all illegals was in the Lib-Dem manifesto at the last election..now who could have such a stupid idea..hang on Mr Clegg is now the deputy Prime Minister
Mancie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 21:49   #71
Super Moderator


 
Wynonie Harris's Avatar
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris View Post
Now, now, Mancie, you're only telling half a story there, aren't you? The FULL story from the BBC is this

Judges at the European Court in Strasbourg ruled early in 2012 that the cleric would not face ill-treatment if returned to Jordan. They said a special UK-Jordan agreement over Mr Qatada's treatment, called a Memorandum of Understanding, was sound and met European standards of humane treatment.

Critically however, the judge did not believe he would get a fair trial because a Jordanian court could use evidence against Abu Qatada that had been obtained from the torture of others.
...and yet again, Mancie, you're only telling us half the story. Yes, the ECHR think he will get fair treatment if he's sent to Jordan but THEY DO NOT BELIEVE HE WILL GET A FAIR TRIAL because they think they'll use evidence against him that's been obtained by torture.

Now, like the majority of the British public, I couldn't care less what happens to the scum once he's in Jordan; they can boil him in oil for all I care. He's an asylum seeker who's consistently abused our hospitality and he's deemed to be a serious security threat to this country. Why are you ducking and diving on this? Is it because you don't want to admit that your mates in the Labour party are just as gutless as the Tories and LibDems on this issue, as evidenced by their total silence on this thread?
__________________

Last edited by Wynonie Harris; 13-11-2012 at 21:55.
Wynonie Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 22:02   #72
God Member
 

Smile Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris View Post
...and yet again, Mancie, you're only telling us half the story. Yes, the ECHR think he will get fair treatment if he's sent to Jordan but THEY DO NOT BELIEVE HE WILL GET A FAIR TRIAL because they think they'll use evidence against that's been obtained by torture.
No mate.. it is the UK judge who did not believe he would get a fair trial..this latest ruling was made in an UK court under complete UK control.
I think the first BBC report was misleading by not stating that the judgement was made by an UK judge..and today there has been no mention of the ECHR by the government



Earlier this year, judges at the European Court in Strasbourg ruled the cleric would not face ill-treatment if returned to Jordan, citing assurances outlined in a UK-Jordan agreement.

But the judge ( should say the UK judge ..not the ECHR judge) did not believe he would get a fair trial because a Jordanian court could use evidence against Abu Qatada that had been obtained from the torture of others.

See what i'm saying ?

Last edited by Mancie; 13-11-2012 at 22:04.
Mancie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 22:06   #73
Coffin Dodger.

 
cashman's Avatar
 
Jewel Quest Champion!
Cribbage Master Champion!
Addiction Solitaire Champion!

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

As far as i'm aware Mancie is correct wi this.
__________________
N.L.T.B.G.Y.D. Do not argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
cashman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 22:42   #74
Super Moderator


 
Wynonie Harris's Avatar
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris View Post
The European Court of Human Rights, echoing the concerns of the UK's own Court of Appeal, said the preacher would be treated well if returned - but there was one big problem.

In their judgement they said that it doesn't matter what someone has done, modern nations that believe in the rule of law cannot send people back to regimes that torture - and then use that evidence against other suspects.
Well, that's not the way I read it. Yes, a UK judge did say yesterday he couldn't be deported because torture-based evidence would be used against him, but the ECHR have already said the same thing. Listen, mate, I'm taking this info from the BBC and they don't get things wrong. It's more than the Director General's jobs worth!

Anyway, m'lud, I refer to my original point that in 2009 the Law Lords ruled that upholding the principle of a fair trial in another jurisdiction “does not require the UK to retain, to the detriment of national security, a terrorist suspect”. If we were not beholden to the ECHR we could have deported him there and then. Furthermore, if the government does manage to get SIAC to change their mind, we'll still have to go back to the ECHR before we can deport him. If Blair hadn't enshrined their rulings in British law we wouldn't have all this hassle!
__________________
Wynonie Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-11-2012, 22:46   #75
God Member
 
Eric's Avatar
 

Re: Abu Qatada to be deported

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris View Post
In 2009 the Law Lords ruled that upholding the principle of a fair trial in another jurisdiction “does not require the UK to retain, to the detriment of national security, a terrorist suspect”. If we were not beholden to the ECHR we could have deported him there and then.

However, the ECHR ruled in January this year that he should not be deported because he risks standing trial on evidence that was obtained by torture. To meet the concerns of the ECHR, Theresa May, obtained assurances from Jordan that he would not face an unfair trial. Qatada was allowed to challenge those new assurances at the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (Siac), which has now ruled it is unsafe for him to return.

So as I say, Mancie, if we had nothing to do with the ECHR we could've deported him three years ago!
These "Law Lords" ... do they act as a supreme court? And what use are they if their rulings can be overruled or ignored, especially by an extra-territorial body? And why should Abu Qatada's case be of any concern to the ECHR? As far as I am aware, Jordan is not a memeber of the EU.

As a sort of related aside: I was watching the CBC news the other nite and they were covering a story detailing the growth of Golden Dawn support groups in the Canadian Greek community. So I checked out the Golden Dawn. A bunch of Greek nazis, right. I'm anti-fascist ... don't remember the war, but I was conceived while it was still going on. One would think a global dust up like that would have seen the end of jackboots, neat uniforms, and the bad stuff that went along with all that. But the Greeks, however nazi they become, are no threat to the rest of the world ... they're a joke really ... picturesque and all that (well, if you forget about the hairy women), but they don't start alarm bells ringing in the Pentagon. Anyhow, it seems to me (and remember, I'm looking in from the outside) that the greatest friend to the growth of Nationalism and right-wing extremist groups is the EU. And, of course, the democracies who seem bent on sacrificing their national identity as they rush headlong to show how liberal and all-embracing they are towards immgrants. Europe is a continent of nations ... and they don't really need immigrants like we do this side of the pond. We need immigrants over here. Over there, the immigrants need you. But I'm wandering ....
Eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



Other sites of interest.. More town sites..




All times are GMT. The time now is 12:52.


© 2003-2013 AccringtonWeb.com


Page generated in 0.43578 seconds with 11 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1