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View Poll Results: Are you sick to the European Union?
Yes. 18 94.74%
No. 1 5.26%
I don't know. 0 0%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28-10-2012, 10:59   #1
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Question Are you sick of the E.U.?

It just came across this article about Surgeons leaving work at 48 hours, per week, even if half way through an operation. They do this because of the European Union...European Working Time Directive.

How European working rules have created a generation of "clocking off" doctors - Telegraph

Article written by a surgeon...quote;

I was performing surgery last week while teaching a newly qualified doctor at the same time – nothing unusual about that. Then, it got to 6pm and the trainee said she had to down tools. Sadly, there's nothing unusual about that, either.

I asked her what was so important that she have to leave mid-operation. She simply said she had to get home to baby sit because it was her "husband's night out with the boys". She was not apologetic about it and didn't really see it as a problem.

So, despite the operation being an interesting one, which would provide her with plenty of learning opportunities, she left promptly at 6pm, leaving me to finish the case.

It would have been great to leave early that day too. I had an important weekend – I had a reunion with all my friends from university and I was really looking forward to it. But it wouldn't have mattered if it were my parents' golden wedding anniversary, if I have a patient on the table, I just couldn't walk out.

It wasn't the first time I've seen a doctor walk out on a patient. I remember operating on a patient's abdomen when a trainee surgeon suddenly said he had to go home, because his shift was over. I had to struggle to finish the operation on my own.

Last edited by kestrelx; 28-10-2012 at 11:08.
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:22   #2
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Disgraceful, dedication to the job long gone out the window.
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:29   #3
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

There's no answer to that.
After all the threads and posts condemning the practices of this undemocratic money pit....you ask that question.
Surely the answer is self evident.
(I'm really not having a go at you Kestrelx - it is just that anything...absolutely anything to do with the EU puts my hackles up)
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:38   #4
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Seems to me this is nothing to do with EU directives and a lot to do with being in the wrong job. The stories I have been told about how patients are being treated within our hospitals are really very scary and as far as I'm concerned it has been due to proffessionals who just don't care.
And before anyone has a go I am not saying all health care staff are like this but unfortunately some are and it is the patients who suffer because of this.
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:43   #5
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cashman View Post
Disgraceful, dedication to the job long gone out the window.
I know there have been programs talking about people in hospitals being treat badly by the nursing staff. Which many are foreigners and they are trained to have least "human" contact with the patient - my information is coming from some radio program about this about 1 year ago. People phoned in and related how their relatives were often ignored by the nursese attending them.

Experience I've had with dentists down here, is that many of them come over here to make a killing out of NHS service. Many of them only like doing any work if it means they are going to get paid significantly and they prefer people who are paying for their treatment, not NHS!

Last edited by kestrelx; 28-10-2012 at 11:50.
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:46   #6
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Bernie, it all started with the EU working time directive.....in 1998.
Prior to that Doctors worked very long hours...but the working time directive has led some doctors to think that they can just clock off....what this young woman (in the bit posted by Kestrelx) didn't realise, was that she was missing a vital part of her education by not staying....and yes, it does have a lot to say about the quality of the candidates accepted for training as doctors...it says they really are only in it for the money.......not to help people, or to benefit mankind, but to further the financial fortunes of number one.
Very sad....but it started with the EU.
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:49   #7
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

there are good nurses and there are bad nurses........my daughter has recently had the misfortune of being in RBH......she was treated best by a foreign nurse......who worked her socks off to help the patients in her care....some of the other staff left a lot to be desired.......and the registrar who discharged her was downright rude and abrupt.
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:52   #8
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Re: Are you sick of the E.U.?

Taken from the Telegraph:
Quote:
In at least 21 cases where casualty or maternity units have closed or closures been planned since 2009, NHS officials have cited the European Working Time Directive (EWTD) as a factor in the decision.

Managers say that the directive, which sets a maximum 48-hour-week for doctors, has left hospitals with too few staff to keep the departments open.

Critics say the findings show how the Strasbourg diktat is jeopardising patient safety and needs to be reformed.
Read more at this link...

EU rules are driving maternity and casualty closures - Telegraph
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Old 28-10-2012, 11:56   #9
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

The admin is diabolical, fer the N.H.S. i have been to see a specialist at Royal Blackburn recently n had certain tests, I was told after i would have results n return in 4 weeks, They then made the appointment n told me sorry it will be 5 weeks cos of holidays, I thought great am suffering fer n extra week. early last week i got a letter from em stating i am going in Nov 5th n will have a local aesthetic, so i think hell i'm having n operation, so i ring em to ask n they say no yer having a biopsy but yeh need a local fer it, i ask why does letter not say that instead of the way its worded? oh its a standard letter was reply,anyway 2 days later i get a phone call from em, saying were very sorry but theres been a mistake, yeh aint coming fer a biopsy after all.I say what about my original instructions from em about me results? i am told oh its ok,if theres owt wrong someone will send fer yeh. 2 days after that i get a letter wi n appointment to see the specialist on Nov 16th No-one seems to have a sodding clue who is doing what you, its pathetic in my view.
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Old 28-10-2012, 13:43   #10
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Shouldn't that be "Are you sick of the EU?" No matter. Yes, of course, I am, just like the majority of people in this country. But our fine, upstanding democratic politicians won't give us a vote on the subject, because they're terrified of what the answer will be!
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Old 28-10-2012, 13:56   #11
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

I think on the whole, I'd rather have the European Time Directive than a surgeon with a scalpel working his 80th hour that week...
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Old 28-10-2012, 14:09   #12
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenWaling View Post
I think on the whole, I'd rather have the European Time Directive than a surgeon with a scalpel working his 80th hour that week...
Why should that be the choice or are yeh just n E.U. freak in the minority?
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Old 28-10-2012, 14:13   #13
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Well having worked for almost 30 years in the NHS......I think most surgeons knew their limitations and kept well within them......they did not, however, clockwatch.
We really didn't need the EU to meddle in our employment laws.

Many consultants that I worked with would come in, on their days off to see patients that they were concerned about...and that was because they were interested in the well being of that patient.
That is the kind of surgeon that I would want...not one that looked at the clock and handed over his scalpel to someone else halfway through an operation.
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Old 28-10-2012, 15:22   #14
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris View Post
Shouldn't that be "Are you sick of the EU?" No matter. Yes, of course, I am, just like the majority of people in this country. But our fine, upstanding democratic politicians won't give us a vote on the subject, because they're terrified of what the answer will be!
They are even more terrified of missing out on the gravy train, when they leave British Politics, and join the pigs at the trough in Belgium.
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Old 28-10-2012, 16:07   #15
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Re: Are you sick to the E.U.?

This one hasn't really got much to do with the actual directive. This is about people who don't want to work longer than they have to.

The directive states that no-one can force you to work more then 48hr a week, it's meant to prevent sweat shops...not to let doctors skive off in the middle of an operation.

P.S. I still voted yes
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