Bransons Pledge

AccyJay · 21-09-2006, 16:06

Sir Richard Branson has just pledged £3 Billion to fight global warming. This seems like a really grand gesture, however, isn't it the airline industry that is hugely to blame in the first place? Could this be that he's now on a guilt trip?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5368194.stm

bullseyebarb · 22-09-2006, 14:50

The earth has been warming and cooling since the beginning. Long before we mere mortals showed up. Does anyone with a grain of common sense out there really believe that the human race can control the climate? It's just more junk science from environmental activists in order to alarm the scientifically naive lay public. I admire Sir Richard greatly and he's certainly entitled to endow his money as he wishes - but I think it could be better utilized elsewhere.

Billcat · 22-09-2006, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AccyJay

Sir Richard Branson has just pledged £3 Billion to fight global warming. This seems like a really grand gesture, however, isn't it the airline industry that is hugely to blame in the first place? Could this be that he's now on a guilt trip?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5368194.stm

Hi Accyjay!

While the airline industry contributes considerably to global warming, I doubt that it's a guilt trip. There are many sources of greenhouse gases that contribute and Sir Richard certainly didn't originate the airline industry. I do admire Sir Richard's action. Even though the money is significant, his action probably has greater value in that is will help to focus attention on the issue. Frankly, curtailing greenhouse gases is going to take more than just government action. It's going to take new technology, as well as the actions of many individuals to curtail their own use of fossil feuls.

I've recently contracted to install a large solar photovoltaic array on the roof of my house which will generate the bulk of my electrical needs. Fortunately, I have a large, south-facing, unobstucted roof which makes the whole project work.

Is it a move by a left-leaning fugitive from the 1960s? Nope! While I will be generated many tons less of greenhouse gases, my actions could not be classified as altruistic. I did considerable evaluation and expect that the project will also be a very good investment - roughly a pre-tax equivalent return of 16% on my out-of-pocket outlay, but that outlay will be almost totally offset by increasing the value of my home. I'd like to find other investments with that type of return!

I've also been replacing incandescent lighting with more efficient options and walking to the supermarket on many occasions (about 2 miles each way - which I hope will also pay back in terms of fitness and good health).

I've looked at some of the scientific studies on global warming and talked with a number of scientists. The vast bulk of the evidence indicates that we must stop dragging our feet.

bullseyebarb · 22-09-2006, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Hi Accyjay!

I've recently contracted to install a large solar photovoltaic array on the roof of my house which will generate the bulk of my electrical needs. Fortunately, I have a large, south-facing, unobstucted roof which makes the whole project work.

Is it a move by a left-leaning fugitive from the 1960s? Nope! While I will be generated many tons less of greenhouse gases, my actions could not be classified as altruistic. I did considerable evaluation and expect that the project will also be a very good investment - roughly a pre-tax equivalent return of 16% on my out-of-pocket outlay, but that outlay will be almost totally offset by increasing the value of my home. I'd like to find other investments with that type of return!

I've also been replacing incandescent lighting with more efficient options and walking to the supermarket on many occasions (about 2 miles each way - which I hope will also pay back in terms of fitness and good health).

I've looked at some of the scientific studies on global warming and talked with a number of scientists. The vast bulk of the evidence indicates that we must stop dragging our feet.

Congratulations, Billcat. It's always a good thing to be independent, not to mention the long term cash savings. However, weren't these same scientists and environmentalists warning us 25 years ago that we were heading into a new ice age?!! They can't have it both ways. Guess these are some of the same people who helped to get DDT banned. Millions died as a result - mostly in the Third World. But who gives a damn about those people, right? I see the World Health Organization has recently reapproved DDT. It will be used in a more diluted form, which will kill off mosquitoes and other nasty bugs - but perfectly safe for birds and beasts.

Billcat · 22-09-2006, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

However, weren't these same scientists and environmentalists warning us 25 years ago that we were heading into a new ice age?!!

Which same scientists? The ones I know, which include a couple of fairly prominent PhDs, never expressed such a worry. There were indeed some scientists who expressed concerns back in the mid-1970s, but there was certainly not anything approaching a consensus. Today, there are still some folks who think that global warming may cause some localized cooling, but there aren't exactly a lot of scientists predicting a new ice age. There is, however, a pretty strong consensus today in the world scientific community, based upon available evidence, that global warming is real.

Frankly, the environmental movement has had some great successes. Many of our most-polluted rivers, which were once pretty much dead, now have a good variety of fish. And the reduction in auto emissions has reduced the smog levels considerably in many major urban areas. Far less lead in the environment, too, which is a very good thing for everyone (except, of course, those who were making money from producing tetraethyl lead and other lead-based products).

Of course, due to acid raid from coal-burning power plants, we still have a sizable problem with eutrophic lakes.

Regarding DDT, I'll provide a link to a pretty good article. The WHO has only recommended residual indoor spraying to help prevent malaria in epedemic areas, as well as for areas where there is a continuing high risk of malaria. It is quite clear that it is a limitred use, not a return to the old practices of large scale outdoor use of DDT. It should also be noted that, in some areas, DDT is pretty much useless as the mosquitos have become resistant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT

bullseyebarb · 24-09-2006, 17:10

Apples and oranges. Everyone wants clean water and air. Working towards those goals is laudable. However, the notion that we can actually control the climate is quite another matter. If the public knew the facts....even those facts tacitly acknowledged by the proponents of global warming, said public would not have such a facile view of this issue.

As for the DDT issue, I do not advocate it's wholesale use. But it is an excellent product for problem areas.

Ianto.W. · 24-09-2006, 23:57

How is the great man going to stop cows from farting?

steeljack · 25-09-2006, 01:16

my owd Grandad used to have a saying , "anybody who works for nowt is a thief" Branson offering to give this money away is just looking for a tax write-off .
not cynical , just honest

Ianto.W. · 25-09-2006, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

my owd Grandad used to have a saying , "anybody who works for nowt is a thief" Branson offering to give this money away is just looking for a tax write-off .
not cynical , just honest

Your grandad was a wise man, Branson is for Branson as Homer wrote "beware of Greeks bearing gifts".

Billcat · 26-09-2006, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

However, the notion that we can actually control the climate is quite another matter.

I don't think anyone was claiming that we can control the climate.

However, there is a lot of difference between controlling the climate and changing the climate by our behavior - or modifying that climate-affecting behavior.

bullseyebarb · 26-09-2006, 20:27

It is the height of arrogance to think that we can change the climate! Your whole argument is predicated on whether or not one thinks human behavior is the cause. Apparently, you do. I do not. I would love to have a dollar for every "expert" who has had to change his or her opinion over the years - (pick any subject). What do your scientists propose to do about sun flares and volcanic eruptions, etc?

Billcat · 27-09-2006, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

It is the height of arrogance to think that we can change the climate!

I would differ on that. If you have evidence that we cannot change the climate, you certainly are free to make your case. But, please, do it with facts, not insults. So far, all I see is your opinion.

The scientific consensus clearly does not support your position.

Even among the relatively small minority of scientists who are not part of the consensus regarding global warming, the prevailing opinion is that there is not yet sufficient evidence for anthropogenic attribution. In other words, most of the informed opposition to the consensus does not support your "arrogance" claim either.

SPUGGIE J · 27-09-2006, 20:16

If all go well and we can alter how we affect the climate then any little helps. Something must be working as the ozone layer hole over Antarctica is slowly healing.

bullseyebarb · 06-10-2006, 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

I would differ on that. If you have evidence that we cannot change the climate, you certainly are free to make your case. But, please, do it with facts, not insults. So far, all I see is your opinion.

The scientific consensus clearly does not support your position.

Even among the relatively small minority of scientists who are not part of the consensus regarding global warming, the prevailing opinion is that there is not yet sufficient evidence for anthropogenic attribution. In other words, most of the informed opposition to the consensus does not support your "arrogance" claim either.

Man has never been able to overcome nature. That is the arrogance of which I speak.......it is not a personal insult to you. I don't play that game. Would you prefer the term hubris? I simply do not place all of my faith in science or believe everything some PhD tells me. Visit a little site called www.climateaudit.org sometime. It's for professionals, so quite a lot of geekspeak goes on. But I find it very interesting. Especially when they shine the light on dishonest scholarship. Oh, but surely those global warming chaps wouldn't have an agenda, would they? Never let it be said that I hit and run. Here's a link to a Denver Post article which mentions William Gray, meterology professor emeritus at Colorado State U. and hurricane expert, along with others who consider the current hype to be a scam. http://www.denverpost.com/harsanyi/ci_3899807 There is also the matter of a subtropical Arctic 55 millions years ago. Where were the factories and combustion engines then? Plus,www.iceagenow.com/Growing_Glaciers.htm And I could go on and on.