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Old 26-03-2014, 10:11   #46
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Re: Burn baby

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Originally Posted by Accyexplorer View Post
...in your experiences do/have hospitals put parents/partners of miscarriage's in same (waiting etc) area's as parents/partners having abortions?
If so what's your views on this?
One hospital has done worse than that. A woman who was recovering from an elective termination (85% chance baby would have been born with a degenerative, terminal condition) was sent for recovery in a ward bay containing three late-term pregnant women and two new mothers.

A letter to the hospital resulted in a promise they would review their procedures.

In that particular case, they could have done more to help someone genuinely distraught at the awful decision they had to make. Maybe the ward staff saw "elective" and assumed it was someone who couldn't keep their knees together, or someone whose career was a priority at that time. I can empathise to a degree with their less than perfect treatment of that patient when their job is to help bring new life into the world, but I've no idea if they could make their value judgements based on the notes because I don't know if the reason for termination ever gets that far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Less View Post
...Now that is not to be compared to your many unthinking posts or threads that you have apologised for such as the classic name of this very post Burn baby.
It was worse than that. Originally he used the refrain from Disco Inferno by the Tramps- with the extra "burn" on the end. Don't know if it was him that changed it, but it's no better now (in my opinion).

I'd call the thread "Morality when disposing of human remains." but then that would spark the debate about when a fœtus becomes a human.

I just think this is all just sensationalism on the part of the journalist. Terminations can be for a variety of reasons, and for some couples it will be a deeply distressing and possibly life-changing trauma. For others it won't bother them too much. The hospital needs to be able to deal with each appropriately and as long as they've got the assessment of the parent(s) right, I don't have a problem with them using existing facilities to cleanly dispose of human body parts or terminations.

Just wait for the next one - "Amputee war heroes' limbs used to heat Camp Bastion"
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Old 26-03-2014, 10:13   #47
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Re: Burn baby

What a heavy thread this is. I think the title could've been thought out better. I need to think about this more rather than stumble a response
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Old 26-03-2014, 10:22   #48
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Re: Burn baby

As I've already said:-
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So don't attempt to take the heat off yourself by putting it onto someone else, but do practice with your humour.
But look around the site, you've made a friend but don't cheer just yet, he is notorious for his disloyalty to others.

Now I think I'll just press the report button...
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Old 26-03-2014, 10:24   #49
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Re: Burn baby

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Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington View Post
Please do not get me started on this one.

This is another attempt at provoking not just discussion, but serious argument by using what you consider to be an emotive/contentious subject.

I get it. You do not agree with termination of pregnancy - but hey that is fine because you are never going to need one...or want one....but at some point in the future one of your female relatives may (for any number of reasons).

If you want to know the truth about this then I am available to give it to you. But not in this format, on open forum.
My guess is that you really don't want to know, but you are just stirring the pot!
Well said Margaret, I was impressed yesterday when whoever Accy Explorer is apologised for their insensitivity for the original post - I thought maybe some on here had been misjudging him/her but after reading their next 'question' posted earler today, it seems I was wrong - they obviously just love the attention that their comments attract even though most of it is negative - as they say 'there's nowt as queer as folk'
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Old 26-03-2014, 12:24   #50
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Re: Burn baby

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Originally Posted by DtheP47 View Post
NHS gets it wrong.
But that would not be right either since there are areas within the NHs which have sensitive arrangements in place.
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Old 26-03-2014, 12:38   #51
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Re: Burn baby

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You know nothing about this site do you?

Mick and I have been drinking buddies for many a year and hopefully will continue to raise glasses for years to come.

Got to admit I'm suffering just a little '****edoffitus', so here's a bit of site history for you, dthep and anyone else that thinks they are hard done by.

5 or 6 years ago, the site was troubled by people like you, the owner told us he was planning to shut the site down because he didn't think it worth keeping open for the ungrateful returns from putting his own money into the site.

Mick and I worked hard to talk him out of it, he thought about it then decided with a couple of conditions:-

1/ Administrative control would be passed on to Mick.
2/ I was to use what ever talents I had to quash anyone considered a threat to the site.
3/ If either of us left he would close the site down.
4/ If either of us mentioned this on site, he would close the site down.

This isn't because I or Mick are part of a clique, it is because of Mick's proven loyalty to the site and I am his relative and he wants to keep an eye on the site by the family.

Well, now the secret is out, I hope what Roy said all those years ago, was an idle threat, if it isn't well tough on all of you rotten apples, I know there have been many times both I and Mick wanted to throw in the towel but carried on for the sake of the many friends we've made on here, not for the sake of idiots like you two.

We will just have to wait and see what Roy's reaction will be, personally,

to paraphrase Rhett Butler, Frankly my dears I no longer give a damn.'

Are you two and the many others that we have weedled off the site proud of yourselves?
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Old 26-03-2014, 12:39   #52
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Re: Burn baby

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You guess wrong Margaret, I was talking to a (very) close friend about this subject, She had a miscarriage and her partner, as he put it "was put in the same area as those who just couldn't be bothered to use contraception".

I just thought it was a little insensitive on the hospitals behalf and wanted to know if you (especially) but others too have had any similar experiences and yours/their thoughts....forget it though

Why do you assume that someone who was having a termination of pregnancy'could not be bothered to use contraception'? Do you know this to be the case?
Have you never heard of contraceptive failure...that is not failing to use it, but using it and for some reason, it fails?
A termination of pregnancy has to be sanctioned by two doctors who have to sign that the woman in questions fulfils the criteria of the 1967 Abortion Act. So it isn't just by request.

How did your close friends partner know what any other patient was having done...since the treatment of patients is confidential?

It is not the fault of the NHS if patients wish to talk about what they are having done. Can you imagine if all patients who were having a pregnancy terminated(for whatever reason) went to one designated ward....a ward where no other treatment was performed.

Very soon the community at large would dub this place 'the abortion ward'....so NO woman would be able to keep her treatment confidential.....because if she was going to this ward she could only be having one thing.

When patients go into a gynaecology ward they could be next to someone who is having investigations for infertility, investigations into unexplained bleeding - in fact any number of 'women's' complaints. Only they(and of course the medical team) know what they are having done...unless they choose to discuss it, it is no-one else's business.
Each patient is getting the treatment they need.......and this is being done in an appropriately sensitive manner.
Now that early termination of pregnancy is done by medical means(i.e. tablets) Women who opt for this, only stay in the hosptial for a couple of hours. Many of them will abort at home....and like as not flush the products of conception down the toilet...and give this no thought at all.
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Last edited by Margaret Pilkington; 26-03-2014 at 12:44.
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Old 26-03-2014, 12:42   #53
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Re: Burn baby

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You know nothing about this site do you?

Mick and I have been drinking buddies for many a year and hopefully will continue to raise glasses for years to come.
And one of these days, you might even buy a round
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Old 26-03-2014, 13:51   #54
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Re: Burn baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington View Post
[B]
Please do not get me started on this one.[/B
I get it. You do not agree with termination of pregnancy
I thought folks would have picked up on this as far back as post #10 ... the sentence begins, "I hope everyone can agree ... " Well, he can keep hoping. Over on this side of the pond, it has been decided for years that the rights of women to a safe medical procedure are paramount. In Canada, as I have mentioned, the final word came from our Supreme Court (Regina vs. Morgentaler) ... and even in the God infested U. S. of Eh ... Roe vs Wade ... where the U.S. Supreme Court stated that a woman's right to an abortion was guaranteed under the Ninth and Fourteenth amendments (I'm using memory for this; screw google) to the U.S. constitution.

Seems like on this issue, the the Kingdom of Uk is lagging behind the colonies. It appears that we do some things better over here ... playing hockey and shovelling snow come to mind Here in Kingston, all a woman has to do is show up at the Women's Clinic (open to all women; no age of consent) where she will receive all the help she needs: medical, psychological, and, if she wishes, spiritual. And then, it's up to her. That's the way it should be.
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:02   #55
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Re: Burn baby

Eric the road to abortion was hard fought over here.
I started on the Gynae ward in October 1977...as a very new staff nurse.
One of the very first ladies I saw almost die, had had a botched abortion.
This despite the fact that abortion had been legal(but still not easy to obtain) for 10 years. Her religion and her shame meant that she couldn't go to her practice (a staunchly catholic doctor) and the receptionist who was known to her family. She felt that the only way out was to get someone (who thought they knew what to do) to do it for her.
She almost paid with her life.......and the surgery she needed, meant that she would never ever have a child of her own.

Terminating a pregnancy is never easy......and it is so easy to be judgemental, when in fact we should be saying 'there but for the grace of.....'
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Old 26-03-2014, 14:36   #56
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Re: Burn baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington View Post
Eric the road to abortion was hard fought over here.
I started on the Gynae ward in October 1977...as a very new staff nurse.
One of the very first ladies I saw almost die, had had a botched abortion.
This despite the fact that abortion had been legal(but still not easy to obtain) for 10 years. Her religion and her shame meant that she couldn't go to her practice (a staunchly catholic doctor) and the receptionist who was known to her family. She felt that the only way out was to get someone (who thought they knew what to do) to do it for her.
She almost paid with her life.......and the surgery she needed, meant that she would never ever have a child of her own.

Terminating a pregnancy is never easy......and it is so easy to be judgemental, when in fact we should be saying 'there but for the grace of.....'
Hard fought over here too ... but, for some reason, it suddenly clicked with most Canadians that abortion, and, about the same time, homosexuality were not moral or religious issues but issues of equality and human rights. As soon as we got our Charter of Rights and Freedoms overseen by a non-political Supreme Court, lots of things fell into place. As it is, in Canada, we do not have an "abortion law" ... I guess some of you may find that strange, or even wrong, but most of us are content with it.
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Old 26-03-2014, 15:32   #57
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Re: Burn baby

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Originally Posted by DtheP47 View Post
NHS gets it wrong.
Did they get it wrong though?
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Old 26-03-2014, 15:39   #58
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Re: Burn baby

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Did they get it wrong though?
I don't think they did.
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Old 26-03-2014, 15:40   #59
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Re: Burn baby

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Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington View Post
Why do you assume that someone who was having a termination of pregnancy'could not be bothered to use contraception'? Do you know this to be the case?
Have you never heard of contraceptive failure...that is not failing to use it, but using it and for some reason, it fails?
I am sure you will have had women on your ward that you thought the same about.
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Old 26-03-2014, 15:42   #60
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Re: Burn baby

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Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington View Post
Each patient is getting the treatment they need.......and this is being done in an appropriately sensitive manner.
Is it appropriately sensitive to put a lady who has just lost her baby on the same ward as crying newborns?

I know you mean well Margaret but sometimes I do think you are blinkered by your loyalty to your profession and think all is good with the NHS
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