Councillors in Hyndburn - Are they fit for purpose?

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by mthead

Good point Ian,but even an English person would have to be multi-lingual to represent ALL constituants Only joking mate

If I lived in Pakistan, Hindustan,Afganistan,Turkishstan,Islamabadistan, I am quite sure STAN would expect me to speak STANS language. Unfortunatly for myself I have no need of STANS language as I have no mates called STAN.

[mthead]

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

If I lived in Pakistan, Hindustan,Afganistan,Turkishstan,Islamabadistan, I am quite sure STAN would expect me to speak STANS language. Unfortunatly for myself I have no need of STANS language as I have no mates called STAN.

Just Accy Stan

[WillowTheWhisp]

Nice one

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by mthead

Just Accy Stan

Well they did win a do, Rovers lost UNITED got what they desrved, how much overtime do the 'prima donnas' want, did you see that goal: Pass the sick bag Alice.

[mthead]

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

Well they did win a do, Rovers lost UNITED got what they desrved, how much overtime do the 'prima donnas' want, did you see that goal: Pass the sick bag Alice.

Yeah watched the match obviously I was disappointed,but FC United won and are promoted to the Unibond league so I'm celebrating tonight

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by mthead

Yeah watched the match obviously I was disappointed,but FC United won and are promoted to the Unibond league so I'm celebrating tonight

Good on you, follow your heart and maybe you may not always attain your goals, at least you trod what you thought was the correct path.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by gondola

I see the Community Development Fund has allocated funding to the ‘Why I Live Here’ project.
I wonder if Gayle would care to disclose the amount allocated to this project, and exactly what is hoped to be achieved from such an investment.
Another way to put it is this using a hypothetical scenario- if the Community Development fund was Gayle’s own hard earned money which had to be dedicated to developing Hyndburn, would she have considered the ‘Why I Live Here’ project as the most suitable investment for such a purpose?
Not rejecting the idea, simply wishing to find out more

This has already been talked about

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=26113

so quite happy to disclose the amount as it was published in the Accrington Observer at the back end of last year and also published on here. No secrets.

The results of this project are an exhibition (at the Haworth Art Gallery in July) of the photos taken, a DVD of the interviews, a book and an event. The artist/interviewers and photographers visited 50 people from all different faith backgrounds (it was important that we spoke to minority faiths and atheists as well as what could be considered more mainstream faiths). Their views were then collated and the text for the book written, what struck the artist/interviewer was that despite different cultural backgrounds we all have the same fears, dreams, goals etc. He created a text that was the sound of all the voices singing in unison (sounds a bit arty farty so apologise for that one but at the end of the day it's an arts project, the exhibition and dvd are far more conventional).

In answer to the questions 'what will all this achieve' - well, apart from all the people that came to the event from various public bodies the Chief Exec of Hyndburn heard about this project before the event and requested a stack of invitations for Councillors and officers to attend the event - some did. Thus, the views of the people who participated were (and will be as the information gets circulated) heard by the right people, people who's job it is to be interested in this subject matter.

However, that wasn't the sole purpose, that was just an additional benefit. The purpose was to get people, who are not normally involved with this type of project, together in a project/room to see that people have more similarities than differences. It was a really positive experience.

The results of the project can be used as a promotion for this area as the majority of things that people said were positive.

As for the money, well yes, it's easy to say that it's a waste of money because it is a lot of money but I would definitely argue that it's not a waste (well of course, I'd argue that because my job depends on it ). From a personal perspective I believe that Hyndburn should get a slice of every pie that's going. Hyndburn has just managed to haul itself out of the bottom 50 most deprived areas in the country which sounds good but in fact means that the area will now lose out on a huge amount of additional funding.

By applying and often getting this type of funding it means that the area benefits in more ways than one - you have to consider how the money is actually spent to see the real benefit. Some people imagine that the money, once allocated, disappears into a black hole, but it actually goes into the local economy. Wherever possible I use local people for these things - obviously it's not always possible so sometimes they come from other areas of East Lancashire - it is very rare that I use someone from outside East Lancashire. So take for example the money spent on the entertainment at the event - two local musicians - they got £150 between them to perform. They will then do their shopping at a local shop, perhaps buy a pub in the local pub and then perhaps buy a shirt off the market - the pub that they spend the money in the benefits because they are able to pay the wages of another local person and so on and so on as the money circulates - who knows but the odds are that the majority of that money will be spent with the area which means that Hyndburn in general has benefit from the additional funding beyond the life of the project. That's just a small example so multiply that up to the majority of the spend for the project, plus the other £100k that I've brought into the area over the last year or so - when it comes into the area, it's not just for the project it's for the benefit of the whole area.

So finally, yes my job does depend on this so quite rightly I defend it - however, I do appreciate that some people don't always see the benefit or purpose of the projects because they only see a small part of the overall effect. I will not stop trying to bring money into this area and I don't expect everyone to like everything I do.

As for another point you keep bringing up Gondola about the Olympics - can you say how they are going to benefit Hyndburn? As far as I can see they are going to reduce the amount of funding that is available for this area and whether you agree with my projects, or anyone elses for that matter, surely you can see that it is better to get the money into Hyndburn rather than spend billions on a massive advertising stunt for London.

[gondola]

Gayle,
Thank you for that. I perused the first page of the link attached but did not feel the need to scroll the rest. I gather from this page that the amount allocated to this project was £12000.
You suggest that this project served the purpose of connecting communities amongst other things. This is what the BME suggest, and so too do numerous other organisations set up for the same. All seem to gain funding for more or less the same reasons. Thus I would have expected that they would have made tangible progress in this regard by now.
Let us look at the facts. Unfortunately, the BNP are seeking to enter Hyndburn in political terms since they feel they have had sufficient support from residents of Hyndburn in their campaigns elsewhere. Thus there is a growing number of residents in Hyndburn who are obviously disgruntled and are using the protest vote. We also have to consider the rising racial tensions between rival race gangs as reported in the Observer the other week (teens clash or similar).
I do not seem to recall these tensions being as significant when there was little in terms of community cohesion projects years ago. This is not to suggest that such projects are the cause, but to consider the real possibility that these projects are doing little to offset the rising disharmony. Social dynamics may have changed and thus this may be a contributing factor to increased tension, but community projects in their current form do not seem to be the way forward. I have often repeated on these threads that it is a desire to integrate, from all segments of societies that will drive any change. Not DVD’s about why we enjoy living here. If people want to gain an insight to different cultures, then why does the ‘asian’ neighbour not have a cup of tea with the ‘white’ neighbour on a summers day in the back garden. Surely this would dispel a few myths, raise awareness of the different cultures and cost nothing. Or the idea I proposed the other day about bringing youngsters of different cultures together for a game of football in the park using mixed teams. Little cost, but substantial impact.
You write that ‘’surely you can see that it is better to get the money into Hyndburn rather than spend billions on a massive advertising stunt for London.’’
No, I simply cannot see the justification for squandering money on the basis that if it does not go to Hyndburn it will go elsewhere. The Olympics is a story that is an inspiration to budding sportsmen and women throughout the country including Hyndburn, a project that is set to transform an entire area, a project that will drive tourism to that area, a project that will create employment for those that wish to better their lives, a project that shall be a landmark site for Great Britain and be talked about for years to come.
I am sorry Gayle, but the same simply cannot be said about the ‘Why I Live Here’ project.
I can think of far better ways to spend £12000 to benefit the people of Hyndburn.

[gondola]

Incidentally, I also note from your link that Ianto complained about not having received a renovations grant from the Council notwithstanding twenty years of effort. Perhaps Ianto ought to direct his frustration to Councillor Jones who agreed to investigate the same, mindful of the fact that former Councillor Sardar has had his property renovated several times by the award of a similar grant which included an extension and creating loft/attic rooms and the rest, all funded by the taxpayer.

The idea of preferential bias cannot be proved here (nor can it be established that it even exists) but unless it is dismissed by a reasoanble explanation then it may leave cynics speculating.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by gondola

I can think of far better ways to spend £12000 to benefit the people of Hyndburn.

Which goes back to the point about the funding sources - the Government allocates x number of pounds for community cohesion project, x number of pounds for arts projects, x number of pounds for sports projects, etc. The money can not be used for something outside of its remit. Therefore, although you can argue that £12k (actually £11,750 if we're being pedantic) could be spent better on roads or hospitals or old people - this is not the point of the argument. The money has to be spent on one type of project because that's what the Government (in this case, most often the lottery) has allocated it for - it can't be spent on anything else. Therefore, and I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the point about Hyndburn getting as much funding as possible - if the money has to be spent on community cohesion then I believe it should be spent propping up the Hyndburn economy rather than anywhere else - you disagree, fine.

[gondola]

Well I cannot see how someone cannot understand that if a project is not generating the desired outcomes, then the money ought to be channelled elsewhere.

Which brings me to my previous assertion - that you cannot make someone understand something, when their job depends on not understanding it.

By the way, I gave you a few examples of set ups which were simply a farce. Do you have the courage to state the same and ensure that they do not get funding for the same purpose going forward, or shall you just turn a blind eye and suggest that at least it was given to an organisation in Hyndburn and thus that makes it worthwhile.

Finally, is it the case that fund raisers for 'community projects' and those on similar committees such as yourself, are incentivised on the basis that the person securing the funding gets 'x' per cent in addition to their salary? If so, then such persons clearly have a vested interest in ensuring the money is retained in Hyndburn rather than going to more plausible concerns elsewhere.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by gondola

Well I cannot see how someone cannot understand that if a project is not generating the desired outcomes, then the money ought to be channelled elsewhere.

This one did generate its outcomes - I can not speak for all projects.

Originally Posted by gondola

Which brings me to my previous assertion - that you cannot make someone understand something, when their job depends on not understanding it.

By the way, I gave you a few examples of set ups which were simply a farce. Do you have the courage to state the same and ensure that they do not get funding for the same purpose going forward, or shall you just turn a blind eye and suggest that at least it was given to an organisation in Hyndburn and thus that makes it worthwhile.

Again, I can not speak for other projects. As far as I am concerned the projects that I have been involved in have achieved their goals and are benefiting the area. You may be right for all I know, I don't know everything about every community group and as you haven't actually specified any area where you feel there is a misuse of funds then I can't investigate. Give me facts.

Originally Posted by gondola

Finally, is it the case that fund raisers for 'community projects' and those on similar committees such as yourself, are incentivised on the basis that the person securing the funding gets 'x' per cent in addition to their salary? If so, then such persons clearly have a vested interest in ensuring the money is retained in Hyndburn rather than going to more plausible concerns elsewhere.

No, but I wish it were, I'd be rich by now. (That's a joke by the way in case you don't get it). I do not make a penny out of getting funds for Hyndburn Mela or other community groups that I help. I am paid a small retainer by Hyndburn Women's Forum - this too has been discussed on this forum - I had a lengthy chat with Busman about it some time ago. Plus, if a community group comes to me and wants help with a funding bid then I will help them, gratis. If however, they want to run a project and want me to work for them and get the funding first, then yes I charge a fee for the work but not an incentive for getting the funding bid.

I have always been extremely open about the work that I do.

I can not answer for other people or other community groups, so again, if you have specifics tell me and I'll look into it for you.

[Less]

Excuse me, but I thought this thread was supposed to be about:-

Councillors in Hyndburn - Are they fit for purpose?

If you want a get at Gayle and her work thread there are plenty on site that you can join in without such a large wander as this!

[gondola]

Less clearly has failed to realise that many of the 'community cohesion' projects or organisations that operate as community or cultural centres, actually have councillors or potential councillors that are on the management committees or as employees.

Thus the issue is germane to this thread.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by gondola

Less clearly has failed to realise that many of the 'community cohesion' projects or organisations that operate as community or cultural centres, actually have councillors or potential councillors that are on the management committees or as employees.

Thus the issue is germane to this thread.

As far as I am concerned I am not a Councillor - unless I did get elected in May and someone forgot to tell me! So, Less is quite right in asking why you're having a go at me on this thread when there are many, many other threads where people have a go at me.

I can state catagorically, that no one on any of the community groups that I work for actually benefits financially from them in any way shape or form (apart from where I stated earlier on).

And as for having councillors on the committee then yes, some community groups that I'm involved with do have councillors on them but they don't personally make any profit from being on the group. Cllr Brian Roberts also sits on the Hyndburn Mela committee but does not finanacially benefit in any way - however, it is beneficial to the group to have a Councillor sitting on the committee. In all fairness to Brian he has been very helpful in advising the group and in finding out information that we needed to know.

Again, I can not speak for groups with which I am not involved - I would like facts before commenting on them.