Labour Party

[Margaret Pilkington]

I think that many people will agree with you Guinness.
Tony Blair was a Tory in all but name. A champagne socialist...except he was not anything like a socialist.
Yes, I also believe he is a war criminal.....and should be dealt with as such.

Yes Cashy, I know that Jeremy Corbyn was elected by people who purported to be supporters of the Labour Party.
My point is...if the MP's are against the leader in the way that they obviously are(despite some of them professing to support him( no different from him declaring he supported the UK's aim to Remain in the EU) then how can he lead them.

While all this is going on, the world looks on and our reputation in all aspects(commerce finance etc) takes a hit....which is the blamed on the voters who had the gall to want to come out of the EU.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

We have often talked on here about how M.P.s of any party tow the line rather than look to what their constituents desire them to do.
Maybe we should start our own group, (notice, not party) a group that is prepared to welcome folk from any background that are prepared to listen to all members of the U.K. prepared to stand for us all before any form of party allegiances, a group that supports the people, to move us all forward no matter which way we voted in the referendum, a group able to say this is what the people we represent wants therefore this is what we will support.
No longer voting in one direction because a parties leaders say you must or else.
Yes I know, it won't happen but a

A group for the United Kingdom before all others, however allowing all others ie all across the channel to work just as hard for their own way of life without them ruining ours.

what you are talking about here is a move away from PARTY POLITICS.
Where the best people are chosen for the job regardless of which political party they have previously followed.
I think somewhere in the archives there is a post from me saying that this is how local politics should be conducted.(and I know this will never happen)
Like minded people doing a job to ensure that the best deals are obtained for all of us....Not just those who think they have been elevated to the elite.

I feel that our own MP has betrayed us in the way that only those who know you can betray you....the most hurtful and painful way.
He was a local man....working background....he knew of the issues which caused concern for us and yet he has done burger all about those issues.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I think that many people will agree with you Guinness.
Tony Blair was a Tory in all but name. A champagne socialist...except he was not anything like a socialist.
Yes, I also believe he is a war criminal.....and should be dealt with as such.

Yes Cashy, I know that Jeremy Corbyn was elected by people who purported to be supporters of the Labour Party.
My point is...if the MP's are against the leader in the way that they obviously are(despite some of them professing to support him( no different from him declaring he supported the UK's aim to Remain in the EU) then how can he lead them.

While all this is going on, the world looks on and our reputation in all aspects(commerce finance etc) takes a hit....which is the blamed on the voters who had the gall to want to come out of the EU.

The MPs against J.C. including "Eagle" who supported Blair @ voted to go war in Libya, should ALL go and leave Labour to represent what it always stood for,ok it will take years to reassemble, but better that, than what its become.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy, you are right. It would be better if the party folded than stood as it does now....because as it is, it is an embarrassment.
It may still have the support of money from the unions, but it has lost the support of the people like you. It has alienated you.
I have never been a follower of one party. I am one of those floating voters.
I did vote for our local MP though...purely because I thought he had our interests at the heart of what he was doing....I thought his attachment to the town and its people would keep him grounded.
I will not be making that mistake again.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Cashy, you are right. It would be better if the party folded than stood as it does now....because as it is, it is an embarrassment.
It may still have the support of money from the unions, but it has lost the support of the people like you. It has alienated you.
I have never been a follower of one party. I am one of those floating voters.
I did vote for our local MP though...purely because I thought he had our interests at the heart of what he was doing....I thought his attachment to the town and its people would keep him grounded.
I will not be making that mistake again.

I also voted for our MP Margaret in fact regarded him as a friend, I aint convinced the union support will be as fervent, that we shall have to wait and see also, I will still i think continue to support Labour on a local level, But never again on a national,until these vipers have been removed. Sad but Fact.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

what you are talking about here is a move away from PARTY POLITICS.
Where the best people are chosen for the job regardless of which political party they have previously followed.
I think somewhere in the archives there is a post from me saying that this is how local politics should be conducted.(and I know this will never happen)
Like minded people doing a job to ensure that the best deals are obtained for all of us....Not just those who think they have been elevated to the elite.

I feel that our own MP has betrayed us in the way that only those who know you can betray you....the most hurtful and painful way.
He was a local man....working background....he knew of the issues which caused concern for us and yet he has done burger all about those issues.

Not suggesting it's an original idea, but it would be a wonderful system if we could find trustworthy people to put in control.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

Not suggesting it's an original idea, but it would be a wonderful system if we could find trustworthy people to put in control.

No Less...I know you weren't.......and it is an interesting idea. It would indeed be wonderful if we could find those trustworthy people.
It seems that those we trust, soon become untrustworthy once they get their hands on power.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

No Less...I know you weren't.......and it is an interesting idea. It would indeed be wonderful if we could find those trustworthy people.
It seems that those we trust, soon become untrustworthy once they get their hands on power.

Yes, no doubt because they don't have a free vote and are forced to tow the party line.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

Not suggesting it's an original idea, but it would be a wonderful system if we could find trustworthy people to put in control.

No Less...I know you weren't.......and it is an interesting idea. It would indeed be wonderful if we could find those trustworthy people.
It seems that those we trust, soon become untrustworthy once they get their hands on power.

here is a short comment from an article written by Dominic Sandbrook in The Mail online today...it says what many of us on here have been saying for what seems like forever.

In the past few decades, too many MPs have stopped seeing themselves as representatives of their home areas, or even as representatives of larger social and political movements.
Instead, they see themselves merely as individuals, fighting for promotion and survival like characters in a box-set drama.

[Margaret Pilkington]

It was the title of the article that drew my attention..... 'Politicians are only in it for themselves'.

Now where have I read that before?

[Laatab]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

It was the title of the article that drew my attention..... 'Politicians are only in it for themselves'.

Now where have I read that before?

Much of what you say I am in agreement with you Margaret. It seems our local MP Graham Jones is quite the Blairite. I'm dismayed that our local CLP have not reigned him in. I've been following him on twitter and tried to pull him up on several occasions. An example was him using a statistic from a poll of local members in which he claimed supported his yes vote to the bombing of Syria. But when I looked at the poll he was quoting from, the question put to members didn't mention the bombing of Syria but asked did members support the UN resolution calling for a political resolution. More recently, just last night, he was claiming that Paul Mason on newsnight was threatening the Blairites like himself with "Corbryn's thugs on the streets".

The only think I don't understand is this idea that Corbryn is a weak leader. Here is a man who is standing up to not only these career politicians in his own party, who you quite rightly point out have sold us all down the river, but a man who the whole establishment is terrified of getting into power because they know he will expose them for what they are. The MSM is the establishments weapon of choice in order to disseminate distorted facts and outright lies to discredit him. Yet he stands firm.

Since Corbryn became leader you have seen the Tory party do u turn after u turn. If just googled "Tory u turns under Corbryn" and this is the first hit I got and its not even up to date Jeremy Corbyn's first 100 days: 11 things Labour leader has achieved since he came to power - Mirror Online

Best wishes

Laa

[Less]

[quote name="Less" post=1171615]Not suggesting it's an original idea, but it would be a wonderful system if we could find trustworthy people to put in control.[/QUOTE]<br />
No Less...I know you weren't.......and it is an interesting idea. It would indeed be wonderful if we could find those trustworthy people.<br />
It seems that those we trust, soon become untrustworthy once they get their hands on power.<br />
<br />
here is a short comment from an article written by Dominic Sandbrook in The Mail online today...it says what many of us on here have been saying for what seems like forever.<br />
<br />
<i><i>In the past few decades, too many MPs have stopped seeing themselves as representatives of their home areas, or even as representatives of larger social and political movements.</i></i><br />
<i>Instead, they see themselves merely as individuals, fighting for promotion and survival like characters in a box-set drama.</i>



Unfortunately it won't work, an example of why comes from our own Councillors that stood as independent, as soon as they get a smell of power they will form an alliance with other parties rather than remain independent!

[Less]

Originally Posted by Laatab

tried to pull him up on several occasions. An example was him using a statistic from a poll of local members

Best wishes

Laa

You are lucky you found the poll, I have asked him on many occasions over the years to produce a link to the poll he claimed that the now (in)famous 95% of us are too thick to be given leave to vote in or out of the EU, (still waiting Graham, even though I did manage to vote despite your doubts in my capability).

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Laatab

The only think I don't understand is this idea that Corbryn is a weak leader. Here is a man who is standing up to not only these career politicians in his own party, who you quite rightly point out have sold us all down the river, but a man who the whole establishment is terrified of getting into power because they know he will expose them for what they are. The MSM is the establishments weapon of choice in order to disseminate distorted facts and outright lies to discredit him. Yet he stands firm.

Since Corbryn became leader you have seen the Tory party do u turn after u turn. If just googled "Tory u turns under Corbryn" and this is the first hit I got and its not even up to date Jeremy Corbyn's first 100 days: 11 things Labour leader has achieved since he came to power - Mirror Online

Best wishes

Laa

A leader is someone who will be able to control his MP's(or at least most of them - there will always be the odd one who will stray out of line).

Jeremy Corbyn has not been true to himself. He was a definite Eurosceptic, but allowed himself to be coerced into the Labour stance of voting to Remain in the EU...when it was clear that wasn't what HE wanted to do(and who knows maybe he did not VOTE to remain in the EU).
By paying lip service to a polocy which he was clearly uncomfortable with it diminished his integrity...his honesty...he sold himself out.

As far as the comment that the establishment is scared that he might get into power....right now he would not get access to a jumble sale.
How could he form and effective government with many of the MP's in the party being so against him and what he stands for?

As I have said in previous posts I look at many avenues of information....I do not take onboard all the the popular press wants us all to swallow.

At a time when the political scene needs to be united and move forward, there is disarray in both major parties. How does the world view this...well, it is doing nothing for our global reputation.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Less

You are lucky you found the poll, I have asked him on many occasions over the years to produce a link to the poll he claimed that the now (in)famous 95% of us are too thick to be given leave to vote in or out of the EU, (still waiting Graham, even though I did manage to vote despite your doubts in my capability).

Not even any comments in his defence from his Labour colleagues on HBC or LCC