Margaret Thatcher

[davebtelford]

Originally Posted by Eric

If you think about it, importing stuff that you have in abundance is never "cheaper" ...

Please explain.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by davebtelford

Please explain.

Well paid jobs in mining and all the related industries ... big pay checks that are spent back into the national economy ("multiplier effect"; check it out) ... less unemployment ... fewer folks flipping burgers at below minimum wage. Lower welfare bills. More tax revenue. Etc., etc., etc. ....

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by davebtelford

Please explain.

Ya puzzled me too did that, but seeing in those days we could import coal for £40 a ton cheaper that digging it up here, seems the verify that

[westendlass]

It says on the news that Arthur Scargill has gone to ground, I'd love to hear his views on all the circus surrounding Thatcher. He was her adversary in the seventies / eighties so why so quiet.?

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Eric

If you think about it, importing stuff that you have in abundance is never "cheaper" ...

We used to make more cars than anywhere else but the USA-they were built by British owned companies. British Leyland was the UKs biggest exporter by far.
They were badly designed, very badly built, unreliable and not cheap. I should know, I had to run quite a lot of them. Also you could guarantee that at any time you looked one of the BL factories had a strike on.
Result- people with a choice bought foreign(Japanese mainly at first) which were the opposite of everything above.
The French bought French, the Italians Italian, the Germans German. We bought anything reliable- all imports. The home market collapsed along with exports.
We now export about a million cars a year but they're all built by foreign owned companies-they're good, but we had to get the Japanese to show us how to do it(canban etc) and to re-educate and re-train our workers who can now compete with anywhere in the world for quality and productivity. And they're happy bunnies doing it.
Not importing when you have plenty of your own product- not always so simple a decision.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

We used to make more cars than anywhere else but the USA-they were built by British owned companies. British Leyland was the UKs biggest exporter by far.
They were badly designed, very badly built, unreliable and not cheap. I should know, I had to run quite a lot of them. Also you could guarantee that at any time you looked one of the BL factories had a strike on.
Result- people with a choice bought foreign(Japanese mainly at first) which were the opposite of everything above.
The French bought French, the Italians Italian, the Germans German. We bought anything reliable- all imports. The home market collapsed along with exports.
We now export about a million cars a year but they're all built by foreign owned companies-they're good, but we had to get the Japanese to show us how to do it(canban etc) and to re-educate and re-train our workers who can now compete with anywhere in the world for quality and productivity. And they're happy bunnies doing it.
Not importing when you have plenty of your own product- not always so simple a decision.

Similar things happened in the US automoblie industry ... I remember the CEO of GM apologizing for building garbage cars. Now the US big three are making damn fine cars. Even Chrysler The krauts and the nips got it right. Build good stuff and it will sell. Put shareholders' profits and executive perks on the back burner for a while, and, in the long term, everyone benefits from a strong national manufacturing base. Britain might be short on good footballers, but the talent, let's say, the potential talent to create a strong industrial base is there in spades. It has to be developed. Is it that you guys and your government have lost confidence in yourselves?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by accyman

....most of thatchers attitude towards mining was sheer spite and a personal battle that she wanted to win at any cost

I think that is about it really.
The unions had too strong a hold on the country and she wanted to change that.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Eric

Is it that you guys and your government have lost confidence in yourselves?

Lost confidence? Yes.
Lost direction? Yes.
Lost good political leadership? Yes.

Can we recover? I doubt it. I dread to think of my grandsons future- when he's old enough I'll tell him to go to Canada as I intended doing-a missed opportunity.

To get back on thread- whatever your opinion of her Thatcher saw all this coming.
Her words to BL- 'You're building crap cars nobody wants, you're filling fields with them and they're rusting quicker than an Alfa. You're factories are always shut through strikes. You're unbelievably inefficient and unproductive.Why should the British taxpayers keep pouring their money into you to see it disappear?. It's finished.'
It wrecked thousands of lives, didn't do mine much good either, but somebody had to do something, however much it hurt. The same applied to many other industries.
We were the joke of the world, the Sick Man of Europe. I suppose the Germans are still laughing at us.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Eric

If you think about it, importing stuff that you have in abundance is never "cheaper" ...

You need to swot up on "The Total Cost of Acquisition" Dr E

[accyman]

lol just caught a clip on youtube recorded a few years ago where frankie boyle said it will be the first time in history where the 21 gun salute shoots the coffin

[DtheP47]

This lighthearted farewell to Margaret Thatcher will figure on the special Thatcher EP you can pre-order on Chumbawamba's own website (/www.chumba.com)

[DtheP47]

The intro explains....

[pallyman]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

About 40% of our coal is UK mined. Coal from abroad( mainly Russia) is cheaper. Many of our mines(MOG can probably say more) were 'deep mines' which produced high quality but expensive coal. Power stations didn't need the high quality anyway.
We have 300 years of reserves, based on the high usage of the 70's and 80's so heaven knows how long it would last at present rates of usage.
Why spend a fortune re-opening or starting new mines- the EU won't let us burn coal. Two coal fired power stations closed a couple of weeks ago, they'll all be gone soon. We have no means to replace their output so we could be facing power shortages in the next few years.
What a wicked waste.

Is it sensible?
No, it's politics.

yet Germany are building coal fired stations,our politicians are crazy.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by pallyman

yet Germany are building coal fired stations,our politicians are crazy.

And they're getting blasted for even nurturing the idea

[Less]

One thought I've been toying with:-

I bet the Labour elite are SOooooo grateful they are in opposition at this moment in time.

They would be in a no win situation, if they didn't want to appear spiteful they would probably have had to go for a full blown state funeral with it's immense expense.
Though if they did, they would then have to face the ire of their grass root members for being so hypocritical.

It no doubt would have proved a rather damning situation leading to their downfall at the next election, The irony of which would perhaps be yet another Tory Government in power.

Yep, I can see them all raising a glass to Maggie for going whilst they didn't have to make any decisions.