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Old 22-10-2006, 09:47   #1
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More snouts in the public's trough

I grew up in the charge of parents who believed that the Labour Party represented the poor, oppressed and huddled masses of the working class. Believing this, they regularly gave their votes to that party whenever they were asked to do so without even pausing to consider issues or arguments; it was an instictive or almost Pavlovian response.

That unquestioning loyalty is what brought the present government to power and has maintained them in it since 1997. That loyalty believed Blair when he offered the prospect of government without sleaze or corruption, just as it believed Harold Wilson's empty rhetoric about advancing into the white heat of the technological revolution or Callaghan's insistence that there was no crisis.

How galling it must be then to read the following in this morning's papers;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...415978,00.html

(Note to the right of the main article a selection of related articles)


If we don't wake up soon and smell the coffee, the pot will boil dry and the kitchen will go up in flames.
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Old 22-10-2006, 11:48   #2
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Dosnt matter what banner the polititions are under they are all the same. They grab what they can and sod the rest of us,yet we pay for these little extra's through our taxes. Its about time what they can and cant claim was fixed and non negociable.

By the way WB Ab.
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Old 22-10-2006, 11:58   #3
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Apparently they haven't broken 'the rules', but the rules stink. Especially as New Labour is still supposed to adhere to some semblance of socialist principles.

Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of good...for them.
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Old 22-10-2006, 15:59   #4
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Angry Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Yes garinda but who made the rules?
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Old 22-10-2006, 16:18   #5
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty
Yes garinda but who made the rules?
The Government I presume, though which particular incumbents, or from which party they came from, I don't know. It's sadly all the same.
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Old 22-10-2006, 16:33   #6
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Figures to be released this week will show that MPs’ accommodation expenses have increased by over 10% in the past year to more than £50m.
then they have a nerve to shut down schools and hospitals
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Old 22-10-2006, 16:58   #7
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Many of you on this site repeatedly make my case for me - although I don't think you quite grasp the meaning of it yet. Much smaller, less intrusive government, people! But that means you'd have to do more things for yourselves and, after decades of the welfare state, I am not sure you could handle it. Freedom is kind of messy sometimes....but it beats the hell out of the alternative. If you don't want trough dipping and corruption in government, stop giving these politicians so much control over your lives.
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Old 22-10-2006, 17:00   #8
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullseyebarb
Many of you on this site repeatedly make my case for me - although I don't think you quite grasp the meaning of it yet. Much smaller, less intrusive government, people! But that means you'd have to do more things for yourselves and, after decades of the welfare state, I am not sure you could handle it. Freedom is kind of messy sometimes....but it beats the hell out of the alternative. If you don't want trough dipping and corruption in government, stop giving these politicians so much control over your lives.
Yes Ma'm.
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Old 22-10-2006, 17:14   #9
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullseyebarb
If you don't want trough dipping and corruption in government, stop giving these politicians so much control over your lives.
Well, there's the US viewpoint. Now the real world.

Politicians maybe sleazy and corrupt and it is disapointing to say the least. Here in Hyndburn there is sleaze but people don't want to vote against it.

However the private sector is many times worse. Ask yourself this. Who would you want minding your pension. Mr Enron perhaps, or Robert Maxwell maybe? Or have your water charged to the shareholders of a privatised water company?

Most people in Britain accept the most sleaze is with private individuals and companies.
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Old 22-10-2006, 17:24   #10
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob
I grew up in the charge of parents who believed that the Labour Party represented the poor, oppressed and huddled masses of the working class. Believing this, they regularly gave their votes to that party whenever they were asked to do so without even pausing to consider issues or arguments; it was an instictive or almost Pavlovian response.

That unquestioning loyalty is what brought the present government to power and has maintained them in it since 1997. That loyalty believed Blair when he offered the prospect of government without sleaze or corruption, just as it believed Harold Wilson's empty rhetoric about advancing into the white heat of the technological revolution or Callaghan's insistence that there was no crisis.

If we don't wake up soon and smell the coffee, the pot will boil dry and the kitchen will go up in flames.
The Labour Party, if it has any principles, should be there to represent everyone. It is supposed to be a progressive party, not a mutually exclusive one. That's the Tories.

Blair was shameless in his persuit of leadership following John Smith's death. How come you were naive to that naked ambition?

And thirdly, as my mate says. Whether the Tories stand for things I want or not, he shall never vote for them for this reason; The vast number of people who vote Conservative have a personal view that it unacceptable to him and he would never endorse or support anything that was established on that rump view.
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Old 22-10-2006, 18:25   #11
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Garinda...take that Burqa off immediately.
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Old 22-10-2006, 18:45   #12
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones
Well, there's the US viewpoint. Now the real world.

Politicians maybe sleazy and corrupt and it is disapointing to say the least. Here in Hyndburn there is sleaze but people don't want to vote against it.

However the private sector is many times worse. Ask yourself this. Who would you want minding your pension. Mr Enron perhaps, or Robert Maxwell maybe? Or have your water charged to the shareholders of a privatised water company?

Most people in Britain accept the most sleaze is with private individuals and companies.
Still not getting it, are you? Had to bring up the two most notorious cases of corporate corruption in order to try and make your case and attempt to taint everybody else. Well, no sale here. Firstly, do not entrust your pension and future prospects to either government or employer. You can invest your own money - and quite safely if that is your desire. Ah, the wonders of compound interest! There must always be a moral foundation to any business if it is to prosper. In the days when I was employed by others, I worked for many fine companies both large and small.

I am not opposed to county and municipal governments handling utilities and certain aspects of public transportation. There are valid reasons for them to do so. However, for the rest, I'll stick with the free market. It's far more responsive when it comes to delivering the goods and services the public demands. If you don't like the way a company does business you have the choice of going elsewhere. No such luck when it comes to government services.
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Old 22-10-2006, 18:47   #13
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda
Yes Ma'm.
Very cute, garinda - but completely off topic.
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Old 22-10-2006, 20:39   #14
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullseyebarb
Still not getting it, are you? Had to bring up the two most notorious cases of corporate corruption in order to try and make your case and attempt to taint everybody else. Well, no sale here. Firstly, do not entrust your pension and future prospects to either government or employer. You can invest your own money - and quite safely if that is your desire. Ah, the wonders of compound interest! There must always be a moral foundation to any business if it is to prosper. In the days when I was employed by others, I worked for many fine companies both large and small.

I am not opposed to county and municipal governments handling utilities and certain aspects of public transportation. There are valid reasons for them to do so. However, for the rest, I'll stick with the free market. It's far more responsive when it comes to delivering the goods and services the public demands. If you don't like the way a company does business you have the choice of going elsewhere. No such luck when it comes to government services.
I think this type of view, whilst with merit, is increasingly in the minority. David Cameron was championing the NHS as the greatest political triumph of the 20th century I believe. He said unilateral free trade was not always a good thing and seemed to be suggesting bi-lateral trade agreements instead (which I agree with him).

Whilst Socialism as we thought we knew it died with Blairism, so Thatcherism has died at the cross of Blairism too!
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Old 22-10-2006, 21:07   #15
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Re: More snouts in the public's trough

Quote:
Originally Posted by g jones
I think this type of view, whilst with merit, is increasingly in the minority. David Cameron was championing the NHS as the greatest political triumph of the 20th century I believe. He said unilateral free trade was not always a good thing and seemed to be suggesting bi-lateral trade agreements instead (which I agree with him).

Whilst Socialism as we thought we knew it died with Blairism, so Thatcherism has died at the cross of Blairism too!

Maybe a minority view in your neck of the woods - but not mine. Socialism and its more astringent neighbor, Communism, hasn't worked anywhere in the world. It always comes a cropper, leaving havoc in its wake.

[QUOTE] "Some regard private enterprise as if it were a predatory tiger to be shot. Others looks upon it as a cow that they can milk. Only a handful see it for what it really is - the strong horse that pulls the whole cart." Winston Churchill (QUOTE)
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