new concession for terror bill. - Page 10

andrewb · 11-06-2008, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

No need to start being rude. Manners cost nothing.

As I've said many times already, people held under suspicion of terrorism, with no charge, versus even one life that might be saved in the future, equals no contest.

With the increased threat to the people of this country, as the London Olympics draw nearer, I'm glad stronger measures are now in place if needed, to help thwart terrorist attacks.

You have not given ANY EVIDENCE. All I'm asking for is ONE bit, one tiny bit. Your only justification leads to a never ending length of detention. Give us one piece of evidence that tells us we need more than 42 days. Thus far the ones that went to 28 days have been released as innocent, or evidence found in days 4 and 12. Give us any evidence at all to suggest we need to extend. You can have my full u-turn.

garinda · 11-06-2008, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

You have not given ANY EVIDENCE. All I'm asking for is ONE bit, one tiny bit. Your only justification leads to a never ending length of detention. Give us one piece of evidence that tells us we need more than 42 days. Thus far the ones that went to 28 days have been released as innocent, or evidence found in days 4 and 12. Give us any evidence at all to suggest we need to extend. You can have my full u-turn.

I'm giving you my opinion, that is all.

An opinion it seems that is shared by many.

BERNADETTE · 11-06-2008, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

No need to start being rude. Manners cost nothing.

As I've said many times already, people held under suspicion of terrorism, with no charge, versus even one life that might be saved in the future, equals no contest.

With the increased threat to the people of this country, as the London Olympics draw nearer, I'm glad stronger measures are now in place if needed, to help thwart terrorist attacks.

But you have no evidence that a terrorist attack is going to happen in the build up to or during the Olympics and neither have I but you can bet your last penny the plans are in place for said attacks. So yes the forty two days is a safety net that helps preserve our national security!!

garinda · 11-06-2008, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

But you have no evidence that a terrorist attack is going to happen in the build up to or during the Olympics and neither have I but you can bet your last penny the plans are in place for said attacks. So yes the forty two days is a safety net that helps preserve our national security!!

Exactly, and you can bet your bottom dollars that plans are underway to disrupt and terrorise the games, especially in a city such as London, where we have freedom of movement, and ease of access.

andrewb · 12-06-2008, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I'm giving you my opinion, that is all.

An opinion it seems that is shared by many.

You have no evidence at all then. So you think an opinion should go over evidence. Legislation as important as this, which could prove counter productive and cause anger in Muslim communities, should not be taken likely on an opinion. It should be justified by the necessity to increase detention, not at the offhand thought of how somebody feels the threat to the country is.

cashman · 12-06-2008, 00:13

ya can argue till the cows come home so can i, but ive asked you twice now without response, would you cyfr put this to a referendum given the choice?

andrewb · 12-06-2008, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

ya can argue till the cows come home so can i, but ive asked you twice now without response, would you cyfr put this to a referendum given the choice?

No I wouldn't. In the same way I would not put the death penalty to referendum. As you can see from this thread a lot of people are being won over by emotive language about life and death. There is a huge risk of the public simply believing that this legislation only stops terrorists, guilty, murderers. If it did then there'd be no problem.

Decisions about liberty, that are so important, and could prove counter productive, should not be taken likely. It should be taken on evidence. If there is no evidence to increase detention, then there are only negative implications by doing so.

cashman · 12-06-2008, 00:29

sorry mate it aint emotive language that people are being swayed by,its common sense.

Rosencrantz · 12-06-2008, 00:29

Britain is a fantastic place to live, this cynicism will surely be one of the greatest things I leave my children. I can't wait until no one takes newspapers seriously any more, so when people like David Davies spell out in clear, concise sentences "there is NO need for this" they can kick in with the see-no-evil-hear-no-evil-speak-no-evil cynicism and just vote for whatever puts the "ragheads" behind bars.

In fact I can't wait until the media starts screaming "despot, despot!" and we all vote for the man wrapped in a flag, carrying a sword of truth and a shield of justice, with the home secretary who will happily sign that 42-day form for the least of political dissenters. I'm sure the people of Accrington will lead the charge in living on our knees rather than dying on our feet, where we'll throw away whatever freedoms we possibly can just to make the blanket a little warmer at night.

Oh wait, no, I suppose I'll understand the undermining of liberty better when I'm older, right guys? Or maybe I just need to leave the comfort of my university and get into the real world where spooooooky Muslim terrorists hide under every desk and we need 42 days to work out whether they're out to kill us or not. Right, right...

shillelagh · 12-06-2008, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Give us one piece of evidence that tells us we need more than 42 days. You can have my full u-turn.

Ah so you agree that we need 42 days? Not 28 days?

garinda · 12-06-2008, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Britain is a fantastic place to live, this cynicism will surely be one of the greatest things I leave my children. I can't wait until no one takes newspapers seriously any more, so when people like David Davies spell out in clear, concise sentences "there is NO need for this" they can kick in with the see-no-evil-hear-no-evil-speak-no-evil cynicism and just vote for whatever puts the "ragheads" behind bars.

In fact I can't wait until the media starts screaming "despot, despot!" and we all vote for the man wrapped in a flag, carrying a sword of truth and a shield of justice, with the home secretary who will happily sign that 42-day form for the least of political dissenters. I'm sure the people of Accrington will lead the charge in living on our knees rather than dying on our feet, where we'll throw away whatever freedoms we possibly can just to make the blanket a little warmer at night.

Oh wait, no, I suppose I'll understand the undermining of liberty better when I'm older, right guys? Or maybe I just need to leave the comfort of my university and get into the real world where spooooooky Muslim terrorists hide under every desk and we need 42 days to work out whether they're out to kill us or not. Right, right...

I thought we'd already established Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, along with your witless diatribe?

andrewb · 12-06-2008, 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

sorry mate it aint emotive language that people are being swayed by,its common sense.

If you want to call it that, maybe I don't want to be part of the party of common sense!

It sounds more like Bush excuses for war to me mate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

Ah so you agree that we need 42 days? Not 28 days?

Well spotted.

cashman · 12-06-2008, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Britain is a fantastic place to live, this cynicism will surely be one of the greatest things I leave my children.

Oh wait, no, I suppose I'll understand the undermining of liberty better when I'm older, right guys? Or maybe I just need to leave the comfort of my university and get into the real world where spooooooky Muslim terrorists hide under every desk and we need 42 days to work out whether they're out to kill us or not. Right, right...

well the guy next door to me, who i had a brew with yesterday aint no spooky terrorist, but he sure is muslim, so yes yer right ya do need to leave the comfort of yer university n speak to " Real" people.

shillelagh · 12-06-2008, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

If you want to call it that, maybe I don't want to be part of the party of common sense!

It sounds more like Bush excuses for war to me mate.

So do you want a lib dems membership card sending to you?

was going to offer a labour party one .... but changed my mind ...

Rosencrantz · 12-06-2008, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I thought we'd already established Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, along with your witless diatribe?

And I think we've firmly established that you're all talk until you have the faintest worry that this might affect you in some way. How long did it take you to look up "diatribe"? Big words don't make big ideas. Thanks for totally countering what I said rather than going "NO NO NO BE QUIET YOU'RE WRONG" and proving me utterly right. I appreciate it.