One Step Too Far

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

If a member of my family did that I'd have no hesitation about dropping them in it. It all depends how much loyalty you have to your country. I think I have a lot.

Pity more of the Irish didn't think the same way.

[deantwerpen]

Originally Posted by garinda

Pity more of the Irish didn't think the same way.

I think that you will find that it was mainly those who wanted to create a state within a state, felt alienated from UK citizenship so decided to blow their fellow countrymen up, were believers in a dogmatic form of religion and wanted all the benefits of living in the UK without truely integrating themselves and wanted to take the country over.

This is not opinion, I was there.

Now where have I read that recently?

Can we please get back on to the topic?

[Madhatter]

what exactly is the topic

[deantwerpen]

Madhatter wrote.

"what exactly is the topic"

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++


It was by Jambutty:

"One Step Too Far A recent report suggests that the Muslim community is making noises to have Islamic Holy days declared as Bank Holidays.

Pander to this suggestion at your peril.

This country is a Christian country and has been for centuries. I accept all comers and am quite prepared to share our land with them. What I am not prepared to do is let them take over.

It’s bad enough having what amounts to Muslim enclaves with mosques spring up as fast as churches get pulled down but having Muslim Holy days declared as Bank Holidays is one step far too far"

The point I was making was what do the Irish have to do with this?

[deantwerpen]

Originally Posted by kash

I do have a choice and that choice is to follow Islam. the law isn't the main thing in my life stopping me from doing things, its Islam.

eg drinking alcohol is legal and pubs can be open 24hrs and thankfully Islam prohibits alcohol. I also dont believe in sex before marriage. drugs and fags are also off the list for me, all thanks to Islam.

i wonder if any of you have actually sat down and had a good conversation with a 'practising' muslim and see what they have to say.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
You could become a Methodist like me. Doesn't include the fags, but definately doesn't include a mandate to be a suicide bomber or try and declare UDI for Whalley Range, Audley Range and many other areas.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by katex

Just one question Kash. Hope you can give an honest answer here.

Should you have discovered that a supposed beloved devout Muslim brother/sister had been on the way to Manchester airport last week with the means to blow up an aircraft, what would you have done ?

No response from kash so far. I wonder why?

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by garinda

What do you suggest to counteract your fears?

Enforced sterilization?

White only breeding programmes and baby farms?

I don’t have a suggestion that wouldn’t be thought of as too Draconian garinda.

[talentedbutslow]

AUSTRALIA JUST MAY HAVE THE RIGHT IDEA !!!!!

> Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on

> Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted

> radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

> A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to

> Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister

> John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremist

> would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir

> apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked

> to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a
secular
state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your

> values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic

> state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.

> "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws

> governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another

> the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary

> law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law

> and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices

> it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.

> Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave,

> he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move

> to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told

> reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values

> should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians,

> and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them,

> well then, they can basically clear off", he said.

> Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday

> by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques

> Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It

> Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are

> offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist
attacks on
> Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of

> Australians."

> "However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the

> 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility
that

> our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration,
nor

> do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by
coming

> to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have

> recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to

> understand." "This idea of Australia being a multicultural community
has

> served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And
as
> Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own
language

> and our own lifestyle."

> "This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles,
trials

> and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

> "We speak mainly ENGLISH, not

> Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese,

> Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to

> become part of our society ... Learn the language!"

> "Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right
wing,

> political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on
Christian

> principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It
is
> certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If
God

> offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as

> your new home, because God is part of our culture."

> "We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask
is
> that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with
us."

> "If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go",
then you
> should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We
are
> happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really
don't

> care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your

> culture, but do not force it on others.

> "This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will

> allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done

> complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
Christian

> beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of
one

> other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

> "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come
here.

> You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepte

> Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American and British

> citizens will

> find the backbone to start speaking and

> voting the same truths!!

[garinda]

Originally Posted by deantwerpen

I think that you will find that it was mainly those who wanted to create a state within a state, felt alienated from UK citizenship so decided to blow their fellow countrymen up, were believers in a dogmatic form of religion and wanted all the benefits of living in the UK without truely integrating themselves and wanted to take the country over.

This is not opinion, I was there.

Now where have I read that recently?

Can we please get back on to the topic?

I was pointing out that we were asking Kash if he would inform the authotities if he knew of a terorist plot by a fellow Muslim, when the vast majority of Irish terorist didn't inform on each other.

I wouls also like to point out that there have been more British people killed by Christian terorists than Muslims because of the Irish problem.

Like all debate, arguments are fluid, so I am still aware of the original idea of the thread. Thank you.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by deantwerpen

The point I was making was what do the Irish have to do with this?

Because they also committed terorist atrocities in the name of religion.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jambutty

No response from kash so far. I wonder why?

Since when was this young lad made the Accy Web spokesman for Muslims?

Give him a break.

Perhaps he's studying/holidaying/working, or just plain bored with all the neagativity he faced when he was trying to be open and honest about his beliefs, and decided he wanted a break from Accy Web.

[SPUGGIE J]

After speaking to one of the Muslim guys at work he cant understand why Muslims want extra bank holidays the only one he wanted was at the end of Eid the same as we have for Christmas. He hates taking it of as part of his holiday entitlement.

[CusCus]

OK I'm going to throw a liitle spanner in the works

Why should the UK be a Christian "Church of England" country when (quite rightly) people are allowed to practice their own religion?

I would say there is a very strong argument for separation of Religion from the State, hence BigEars (Charles Windsor) wanting to be "defender of faiths" rather than "defender of the faith"

A secular state would (I infer) therefore less likely to be discriminatory against "non-state" religious beliefs.

And following on therefore, why not allow (say) 4 days a year for religious holidays to be taken whenever an individual chooses according to their religious beliefs - Christmas, passover, Eid, Ramadam, whatever.


Comments from open minded individuals.!

France is a secular state in theory but has much worse troubles with integration than we have, however, so there's plenty of room to pick holes in my argument above.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by CusCus

France is a secular state in theory but has much worse troubles with integration than we have, however, so there's plenty of room to pick holes in my argument above.

France is hardly secular, it's whole culture in entrenched within Roman Catholicism.


Would Druids qualify for the four religious bank holidays?


Would I be penalised against being an atheist?

[CusCus]

Originally Posted by garinda

France is hardly secular, it's whole culture in entrenched within Roman Catholicism.


Would Druids qualify for the four religious bank holidays?


Would I be penalised against being an atheist?

In law France is a secular state, hence the banning of religious items in schools. That's a statement of fact, pure and simple


Imagine that all citizens are allowed (say) 4 days "religious leave" and it's up to you whether you spend it on pilgrimage to mecca / summer solstice with the druids / star trek convention / atheists summer camp or whatever.

You couldn't just say all your religious festivals become holidays......us Catholics would be forever skiving off for saints days

This could lead to a more open, tolerant society, perhaps