Paris Shootings.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Neil

Our own MP votes yes to go to war with ISIS

if labour win the election i hope this remains his view



incidently why are they called isis i thought it was islamic state or is it one of those new york new york things but in this case so barbaric they named it twice ?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Fair enough.
In your current mood of reasonableness would you agree, then, that we should be allowed to fight them in the same way? After all, I'm sure they'd accept it!

If so it's time we let rip, don't you agree?

Are you suggesting we strap bombs onto our lads and send them in to blow themselves up? Or maybe we take hostages/prisoners/whatever and cut their heads off on TV?

No of course I don't think we should fight them in the same way. I do think we should go in properly and stop playing with planes. Nobody thinks airstrikes will destroy ISIS, boots on the ground are the only thing that might.

If you are for the war against ISIS you have to accept that bad things are going to happen here and there is nothing the authorities can do to stop it. They government can be on whatever alert level they want but they can't stop a lone person jumping in a truck and driving it through the Mall in Blackburn.
What if some local radical who has lost family in the war, sorry Margaret, conflict, decides he is not happy Hyndburn's MP voted yes and decides to pop up to Baxenden and kill his family? It's inevitable that killings will happen in the UK and other countries and the authorities are powerless to stop it.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Neil

Are you suggesting we strap bombs onto our lads and send them in to blow themselves up?

Are you volunteering?

No of course I don't think we should fight them in the same way. I do think we should go in properly and stop playing with planes. Nobody thinks airstrikes will destroy ISIS, boots on the ground are the only thing that might.

Hang on! Boots on the ground?? Playing with planes?

ISIS strength,12,000 to 30,000(hard to get up to date figures), little armour, no planes. Fighting on two fronts,Iraq and Syria.

Iraqi Army 200,000 to 270,000 troops, 555,000 Special forces and armed police, 340 tanks(a lot of them M1s), 3700 Armoured personnel Carriers, back up combat helicopters and planes etc,etc, $25 billion spent by USA alone on equipment and training.

Peshmurga(Kurdish) 190,000,some tanks and APCs.

If we send in the whole British Army, including cooks, clerks and the sick(like Rorke's Drift?) we might find 80,000.

They're all going to be falling over each other. Are our troops really needed to back up forces like that or do the Iraqis need to get their act together, with us and many others providing air power?

Isis could have been crushed long ago, if the will was there, for a mixture of reasons it doesn't appear to be.

[Less]

I find it disgraceful that people support these atrocities, especially the idiots we have on site that aught to know better but obviously don't, yes Neil, I mean you!
Be honest for once, you and your ilk finding excuses for terrorism are probably more dangerous than the actual terrorists because of your stupidity.
(Feel free to go into the mod section and delete this) I find you and those supporting your ideas to be lower than anyone that actually performs these foul acts.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Less

I find it disgraceful that people support these atrocities, especially the idiots we have on site that aught to know better but obviously don't, yes Neil, I mean you!
Be honest for once, you and your ilk finding excuses for terrorism are probably more dangerous than the actual terrorists because of your stupidity.
(Feel free to go into the mod section and delete this) I find you and those supporting your ideas to be lower than anyone that actually performs these foul acts.

I'm not finding excuses for terrorism, I think it's abhorrent. I'm saying it was bound to happen and carry on happening and anyone who thinks different is an idiot.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'm not finding excuses for terrorism, I think it's abhorrent. I'm saying it was bound to happen and carry on happening and anyone who thinks different is an idiot.

The only 'idiot' on this thread is the one who posted this drivel!

Originally Posted by Neil

I think many people in this country and others forget what we are doing abroad. They forget about the drone strikes and planes bombing, they forget the innocent people who are classes as collateral damage or acceptable losses in these strikes. They forget we are at war. The forget that the only way those we are at war with can retaliate is by random attacks. We call them terror attacks, they class it as collateral damage and acceptable losses.
We sit in our nice warm homes wanting all this extremist oppression to end in other countries, do we seriously expect no backlash on us in our own countries?
We are at war and in war horrible things happen.

Because to anyone who is not an idiot this reads as 'terrorism is a justified weapon of war'

And only idiots would think that!

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Neil

What if some local radical who has lost family in the war, sorry Margaret, conflict, decides he is not happy Hyndburn's MP voted yes and decides to pop up to Baxenden and kill his family?

If ANY MP got into the job thinking all they had to do was shake hands and kiss babies around election time they should quit before they get asked to decide on difficult issues like wiping out ISIS and terrorists alike

at the risk of sounding a touch cold hearted its the job they put themselves forward for and beg us to give them every 5 years and unfortunatley on some occasions as rare as they are they will get asked to make a difficult decision.

i would not like to have a mp that was willing to let isis carry on for fear of personal safety and if they are unable to take the risks that come with the job then they should get out of that job and i personally wouldnt blame them if they did.

this is not a dig at Jones this is regarding any MP.

anyway as history shows terrorists never really or rarely go for the polititions who make the decisions they go for the innocent civilians and our children

ps:

neil i do get what you were trying to get accross and people have said the same about america.One thing i remember some comedian saying was that if you stick your nose in enough peoples buisness eventually you will get a bloodied nose butthis ISIS threat isnt about our governments policies and actions its about a large and growing group of people trying to force a barbaric version of their faith upon the world

[Guinness]

The fact is that nobody declared war on three French muslims.

The fact is, that it was a barbaric act that had zero to do with any collateral damage, acceptable loss or a few SAS shooting murderers and rapists who are persecuting their own whilst hiding under the banner of Islam.(How easy it is to forget how Nazism grew whilst we sat appeasing in our own warm homes)

You could maybe call it religious fervour, call it brainwashing or indoctrination, call it an act of the weak or simple minded looking to go down in history like a modern day John Wilkes Booth or Lee Harvey Oswald....but do not claim it is a way of waging war. If you do.... then logically it must follow that Anders Brevik is a war criminal and not a murderous lunatic.

And, as someone much more intelligent than me points out below...the circulation of a magazine that less than 60000 people had heard of (myself included) has gone through the roof with over 1 million copies being printed this week.

You MUST mock - Official site of Stephen Fry

Every time one of these atrocities occurs, the whole of Islam is looked at with even more suspicion and hatred....and support for any muslims who are being persecuted is at an all time low.

Terrorism has always been and will always be counter productive.

[allsorts]

We need to find the reason why these young men feel the need to kill people in cold blood
get to the root of the problem and stamp.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by allsorts

We need to find the reason why these young men feel the need to kill people in cold blood
get to the root of the problem and stamp.

Think most sensible people are well aware of the reason. They want everyone to conform to their radical brand of Islam,

[Margaret Pilkington]

The reason is simple...it is because they can.
If they abhorred the western style of life so much then why come to countries where this lifestyle is the norm.
If they want to live by barbaric seventh century rules then go to a country where these are the norm.
The young men go to the mosque and have their heads filled with twisted ideology......that is not Islam......they want to make the Islamic religion the only one to follow, but you do not convert minds with guns and bombs.
What Guinness says about the rise of Nazism is a very pertinent point.
This is fascism too.

If I went to another country for work or for a better life then I would try my best to adapt to the ways of that country. I would keep my own culture to a degree that didn't impose my culture/religion on my adopted land.

There are some Muslims who do not want to integrate....they do not want to be a part of the fabric of society in their new adopted country...they want that country to adapt to their needs. That cannot be right.

[Restless]

Some of the the people on this forum. God - You are jerks. People are entitled to their opinions

[Restless]

Myself included of course. How dare I make such a comment otherwise, but name calling on this forum is getting older than some of its members

Margaret did you see the video of the Muslim from the UK who's telling them if they don't like to go back. He's already had death threats because of it

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Restless

Some of the the people on this forum. God - You are jerks. People are entitled to their opinions

Everyone on here is entitled to their opinion, so whats name calling about saying "stupid" or "Idiot"

[Restless]

Originally Posted by cashman

Everyone on here is entitled to their opinion, so whats name calling about saying "stupid" or "Idiot"

Some might be offended by being called Idiot/Stupid. Though for me saying Mr Fry is much more intelligent is a definite. However its not just this thread. Certain people are constant offenders of the "slight digs"

edit: plus its been a while since I moaned about forums and etc.