The Ultimate Insult

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by garinda

Quite agree, but that's a different issue. Namely criminal fraud.

I was referring to a system nurtured under three consecutive Labour governments, in which people were better off claiming benefits, than working for a living.

That was wrong too.

Wrong that is, of the idiots in charge at the time.

I think Wynonie asked you a question earlier in the thread, wanting to know if you'd still vote for continuing membership of the E.U., as it stands today?

Without any doubt I would vote to stay in the E.U.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

Without any doubt I would vote to stay in the E.U.

Thank you, I'm sure Wynonie will be pleased you've answered.

As we all are, the electorate.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

My money as well Margaret. Don't necessarily disagree with what you say I would only add that there's a few who were born in this Country, who are not slow when it comes to claiming benefits.

Yes, many people who worked and paid taxes are putting into a pot for those who have no intention of working.

And those who were born here and live their life off the backs of other peoples labour.....well, it is unacceptable, but they are only half to blame.
The other half of the blame lies with the benefits system.
Benefits should be a helping hand, not a career option.

No political party has ever had the guts to tackle the problems with the benefits system.

However you look at it, it cannot be right that someone comes from the eastern bloc and can claim every benefit going the minute they land.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

Without any doubt I would vote to stay in the E.U.

For God's sake why????


It is a money pit.......it is undemocratic, we have no way of influencing our own county's policies. It is corrupt. They are going to be telling us next what kind of paper we can wipe our bums on......probably Euro notes!

I am not European.........I do not wish to be part of the United Soviet State of Europe.

[garinda]

I wonder if we can deduce the ruling party at H.B.C. are all fervently pro-E.U.?

Since it was only last week they invited 'our' M.E.P., Labour's Brian Simpson, to speak at the meeting of the full council.

Strange how so many politicans, from all sides, are so pro- the madness that is the United States of Europe, masquerading as the European Union, and according to every poll, the people of Britain are now so against it.

Any politican worth their salt better wise us quick.

The next election won't be won because we have weekly rubbish collections, tuition fees rises, uneven N.H.S. care, or even the question whether removing benches makes alcoholics magically disappear too.

It will be won over membership of the E.U., and Britain constantly having to hold the shi-tty end of the stick, and the closely associated question of immigration.

Our politicans may be quite happy with the continuing status quo, regarding the E.U.

The public at large are sick and fed up.

Fed up waiting for politicans to grow enough balls to tackle the problem, and address their very real concerns.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

For God's sake why????


It is a money pit.......it is undemocratic, we have no way of influencing our own county's policies. It is corrupt. They are going to be telling us next what kind of paper we can wipe our bums on......probably Euro notes!

I am not European.........I do not wish to be part of the United Soviet State of Europe.

If its undemocratic, then make it democratic, if its corrupt, then deal with the corruption. I have no more desire than you Margaret, to see a United States of Europe.But equally I don't think that this Countries interests are best served from a position of splendid isolation

[anzac]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes, many people who worked and paid taxes are putting into a pot for those who have no intention of working.

And those who were born here and live their life off the backs of other peoples labour.....well, it is unacceptable, but they are only half to blame.
The other half of the blame lies with the benefits system.
Benefits should be a helping hand, not a career option.

No political party has ever had the guts to tackle the problems with the benefits system.

However you look at it, it cannot be right that someone comes from the eastern bloc and can claim every benefit going the minute they land.

I still cannot understand why if the benefits are paid by the Government people on benefits are not made to work for the money with the Government as the employer.

Just say for instance that you have a painter & decorator out of work and living on benefits why on earth is he not out there painting the schools and the hospitals and the same goes for anyone else.

The system is a complete joke but is a way of life for some people and until someone starts to put their foot down and say enough is enough then long will it continue.

I work part time now after working very hard for a number of years and that is my choice but this month alone I have spent more than I earn on essential things including a visit to the dentist, new glasses for my failing eyesight and more than I care to think about on prescriptions for a newly diagnosed condition but I have learned to answer with a smile the question "Do you pay for your treatment"

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

For God's sake why????


It is a money pit.......it is undemocratic, we have no way of influencing our own county's policies. It is corrupt. They are going to be telling us next what kind of paper we can wipe our bums on......probably Euro notes!

I am not European.........I do not wish to be part of the United Soviet State of Europe.

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

There are problems, but these are problems that if the will was there could be sorted. And in my view doesn't mitigate against the concept of the European Union, which I think is a correct concept.

I'm essentially an internationalist, and we have seen all too frequently in the last century what can happen when countries adopt an insular stance.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...l-49152-5.html

Peace, and fraternal love Comrade Pilkington.

Peace, and love.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I have no more desire than you to see a United States of Europe.

Suprise!

We're living in it now.

With laws we must abide by, being dictated to us from Brussels.

Capital city, of the United States of Europe.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I'm essentially an internationalist, and we have seen all too frequently in the last century what can happen when countries adopt an insular stance.

By the way...

We went to war against Nazi Germany because they were expansionist, not 'insular'.

Talking earlier today about what's happening to us because of the European Union.

My mum, born after her dad was killed in Normandy...

'Makes you wonder if winning the war was worth it'.

No idea who she votes for, but my mum's fairly liberal in outlook, and was brought up in a strong socialist/ Methodist household.

My mum isn't isolated in her thoughts.

People are genuinely sick to their stomachs, at what's being allowed to happen to this once great democratic country.

Let's hope some politicans wise up, at least.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

If its undemocratic, then make it democratic

Great.

Can we assume you'll be lobbying your party, so we can have an election promise there'll be a referendum on this issue, with a water-tight guarantee it will actually materialise, unlike past broken election promises we've had?

The situation's a thousand times diffferent from the last time people were allowed their democratic say in one, in 1975.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

If its undemocratic, then make it democratic, if its corrupt, then deal with the corruption. I have no more desire than you Margaret, to see a United States of Europe.But equally I don't think that this Countries interests are best served from a position of splendid isolation

Bernard, can you tell me how to make it democratic? How to deal with the corruption....heck the EU budgets haven't been signed off in the last 14 years.
And if we left the EU I do not see that we would be isolated.
And just because you have no desire to see a United States of Europe doesn't mean that this isn't what will happen.
At every turn the EU tries to insidiously take over things that should be decided in our own Parliament.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

Without any doubt I would vote to stay in the E.U.

Perhaps, Bernard, in an absolutly non-political way, you'd like to justify that?
If you feel it's 'undemocratic' and 'corrupt', if you don't wish to see ' a United States of Europe' then I'm struggling to see why you would vote to stay in!
If you thought your party was undemocratic and corrupt would you be happy to stay in it? I think not, I hope not.
'Splendid isolation'! Separating ourselves from an undemocratic, corrupt organisation(your words) - why not?
The top brains behind the Union could see that eventualy financial mis-matches would eventually create the need for a fiscal and political union controlled by Brussels and being fair to them they never hid their target- a United States of Europe!

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Bernard, can you tell me how to make it democratic? How to deal with the corruption....heck the EU budgets haven't been signed off in the last 14 years.
And if we left the EU I do not see that we would be isolated.
And just because you have no desire to see a United States of Europe doesn't mean that this isn't what will happen.
At every turn the EU tries to insidiously take over things that should be decided in our own Parliament.

Cllr. Dawson, meet Margaret Pilkington.

The woman on the Clapham Omnibus.

She speaks for many.

The man on the Clapham omnibus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Wynonie Harris]

Damn! This is what comes of stopping for a pint or three on the way back from t'Stanley. I come on here to find Bernard's finally made his views known and Gary, Margaret and others have said it all!

How can you say we're not well along the road to a United States of Europe when so many of our laws and regulations are now decided by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels? How can you even imagine that such a terminally corrupt, wasteful, undemocratic behemoth can be reformed?

...and most important of all, how can you as a democrat be party to denying the British people the right to decide on these huge changes which are altering the very nature of our country?