The Ultimate Jobsworth?

[gynn]

An 87 year old woman has died in a nursing home in California, after a nurse refused to give her CPR, saying it was against the home's rules for her to help the woman.

Woman Dies After Nurse Refuses To Perform CPR

Is this the inevitable result of a culture of fear instilled into employees fearful of losing their jobs if they set one foot outside tight rules and regulations..........

......or was the nurse just one callous bit*h?

I think I go for the latter.

[Restless]

The Home issued a statement saying that the elderly woman agreed to the rules before she moved in there. She's 87 and she is in a home. She might have wanted to die.... Its California.... In my imagination it is not beyond the realms of possibility. I have heard of weird stuff such as suicide parties for people have aids and etc.

So I don't think of the nurse as being callous. I think why the hell is this rule there in the first place. I think of America being on the verge of an economical collapse and how its going down the tubes(apparently). What kind of bullcrap mess must there be in this woman's life that have forced this her to choose between rules and morality. She has to live with this decision for the rest of her life. We however get to read about it and cast our vote.

[gynn]

There are a number of nurses and ex nurses on this forum, and it would be interesting to hear their views on this. Is there anything in the nurses actions that you could defend?

[Margaret Pilkington]

I find your comment offensive.
This incident happened in the US....so it isn't something that obviously affects you.
You do not know the full facts of the situation(only what has been reported by the media - which is sometimes skewed for sensationalistic journalism purposes).
This elderly lady may have had an 'end stage disease' and may have had a DNR protocol attached to her notes.......DNR is Do not resuscitate.
I don't know if this was the case, but then neither do you....but you feel that you can offer a value judgement about the character of this nurse....and use derogatory terms to describe her. Uncalled for and unwarranted.
The fact that the family have not acted against the Care Home makes me believe that the nurse was doing what was in the Nursing orders.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by gynn

There are a number of nurses and ex nurses on this forum, and it would be interesting to hear their views on this. Is there anything in the nurses actions that you could defend?

I would say it could well be a case of someone wishing to keep employment? It may seem callous, but when yeh got kids etc to feed. Its the Home Owners that should be looked at in my view, But oiks are the easiest target.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by gynn

There are a number of nurses and ex nurses on this forum, and it would be interesting to hear their views on this. Is there anything in the nurses actions that you could defend?

The rules about what nurses can and cannot do, are different in the US.
If a patient wants to have their hair washed, and expresses that desire here in the Uk the nurse would do it without blinking an eye(well, she would if she had the time)...in the US, if it isn't written up by a doctor in the nursing notes/care plan then if the nurse does it. she can personally be litigated against....now if you want to see all your assets earned over a lifetime go down the pan in an instant...then litigation is the way to go.

Gynn, you have made assumptions based on what the media story tells us....which may, or may not be the whole story.

It is true that there are some people in caring professions, who do it for one reason, and one reason only.....money....but not everyone should be lumped into this category.
That aside, you had no reason to defame the character of the nurse in question without even knowing the full facts....it would have been better had you left out the comment about her.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The rules about what nurses can and cannot do, are different in the US.
If a patient wants to have their hair washed, and expresses that desire here in the Uk the nurse would do it without blinking an eye(well, she would if she had the time)...in the US, if it isn't written up by a doctor in the nursing notes/care plan then if the nurse does it. she can personally be litigated against....now if you want to see all your assets earned over a lifetime go down the pan in an instant...then litigation is the way to go.

Gynn, you have made assumptions based on what the media story tells us....which may, or may not be the whole story.

It is true that there are some people in caring professions, who do it for one reason, and one reason only.....money....but not everyone should be lumped into this category.
That aside, you had no reason to defame the character of the nurse in question without even knowing the full facts....it would have been better had you left out the comment about her.

Gynn is very good at jumping the gun Margaret, but like you say, things are a lot different over here and without the full story its hard to make a judgement, howerer I have actually been in a bed next to an elderly patient with a DNR notice on the file, but it wasn't effected while he was an inpatient, sadly his obit was in the Obs around 3 weeks later

[Eric]

Could be a touch of "litigationitis"

[Restless]

Thanks again Margaret for more great posts... Insight from the nurses!! k+ award

[Eric]

Just wondering if nurses in the UK feel the need to purchase malpractice insurance ... I know it's common in the US.

Malpractice Insurance For Registered Nurses/Licensed Practical Nurses | CM&F Group, Inc.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Eric

Just wondering if nurses in the UK feel the need to purchase malpractice insurance ... I know it's common in the US.

Malpractice Insurance For Registered Nurses/Licensed Practical Nurses | CM&F Group, Inc.

Eric, I sincerely hope not, would destroy a lot of my faith in them built up over the past year or so.

But then nothing should surprise us these days.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

Just wondering if nurses in the UK feel the need to purchase malpractice insurance ... I know it's common in the US.

Malpractice Insurance For Registered Nurses/Licensed Practical Nurses | CM&F Group, Inc.

Never heard of that over here Eric and I've spent more than my fair share of time in hospitals over the last 30 years, I've always had nothing but praise for the nursing staff over the years, but this time the junior doctors left a lot to be desired, not to mention a consultant too.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Nurses in the Uk do not purchase malpractice insurance......if they are in a union(the Royal College of Nursing is a sort of union) then they are covered to a degree......unless they perform first aid, and the person who recieves first aid comes to harm...then the nurse can be sued personally.......this is one of the reasons that I was most reluctant to give aid in an outside emergency situation.
Nurses are bad at first aid anyway...they are used to having equipment to help them.

[Eric]

I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the fear of malpractice suits has a negative impact on the US health care system ... never interested enough to read anything about it. It is not really all that surprising that a nurse would refuse, in certain cases (I'm not sure exactly which cases), to give CPR.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Nurses in the Uk do not purchase malpractice insurance......if they are in a union(the Royal College of Nursing is a sort of union) then they are covered to a degree......unless they perform first aid, and the person who recieves first aid comes to harm...then the nurse can be sued personally.......this is one of the reasons that I was most reluctant to give aid in an outside emergency situation.
Nurses are bad at first aid anyway...they are used to having equipment to help them.

If I was having a problem away from home I'd sooner have a qualified nurse come to my rescue than just joe public Margaret