The value of public funded art

[DaveinGermany]

It appears the general consensus is that the money could've been used to better effect had a different approach been used. May I suggest that for future ventures, you (Gayle) put your ideas forward here on the site so you can get a better feel for the attitude to your intentions thereby mitigating any backlash in advance.

What has been shown with this thread is that what yourself & others who move in the same circles view as feasible is seen differently by other folk. So hopefully with a broader input a better result may be achieved a genuine take from all ports & should it not work out, well you couldn't be held solely responsible as others have stuck their 2 'pennoth worth in. Just a suggestion to ease things a little

But what do I know, I'm a cultural pygmy.

[garinda]

I'll say again, for the third time, if you really want to know Joe Public's feelings on the value of these state funded arts, let the people have their say, in a simple poll.

I'd feel it was churlish of me to start my own, even though I too would find the results interesting, and especially now we have this thread, which deals with the same subject.

You could decide on the wording, so there'd be no accusations of any bias.

It's been done before, adding a poll to an esisting thread. You just need to ask a moderator to do it.

I'm sure you've nothing to lose.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

It was all very public if I remember correctly.

I did help to create the role and I had lobbied for it. No one else was doing the Arts role and I got some lottery funding to help establish it. However, I did also have to apply for the job and it was advertised so if anyone better had shown up then presumably I'd have not got the job. It was all perfectly above board and in future, if I decide to step down, I shall make sure that you are sent a copy of the job advertisment, just in case you miss it again.

So please don't try to make out that I'm a liar, which is what you're clearly trying to do. If there is one thing that I try to do above all it's answer your posts as honestly as I can. I can't think of anyone else who is prepared to do this and put themselves under so much scrutiny but for some misguided reason, I actually believe that it's important that this discussion is held in the public arena. If you want me to shut up and go away then I'd be quite happy to.

And don't worry, I won't tell you anything else privately in future.

Oh, and if you're worried about the public purse paying my wage for much longer, it won't. As from the end of March the only way that I will get paid is if the Arts Centre is making a profit and there is enough to pay me. So, yes, I will be chasing every single bit of funding that is out there in order to earn a living.

I wouldn't be so rude as to call you a liar. For one thing, I know you aren't.

I was merely posting what I recalled from the private answer you gave, regarding your role, when it was questioned on this forum, in public.

If you're going to use public forums to promote these art projrects, and start threads asking what people think of their worth, then the public have a right to know the cost to the public purse.

I'd be more than happy if you now decide only to reply to open questions publicly. Rather than privately, only to me. As you did once again today, when asked about the costs for the flash mob event.

Replying privately, to publicly asked questions, to some could look a bit iffy. Like there was something clandestine about it all, and the ordinary public wouldn't be able to grasp it.

It's good to be transparent.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

It appears the general consensus is that the money could've been used to better effect had a different approach been used. May I suggest that for future ventures, you (Gayle) put your ideas forward here on the site so you can get a better feel for the attitude to your intentions thereby mitigating any backlash in advance.

What has been shown with this thread is that what yourself & others who move in the same circles view as feasible is seen differently by other folk. So hopefully with a broader input a better result may be achieved a genuine take from all ports & should it not work out, well you couldn't be held solely responsible as others have stuck their 2 'pennoth worth in. Just a suggestion to ease things a little

But what do I know, I'm a cultural pygmy.

Relatively few, of the many posts I've made, are about the artistic value of these projects.

They are about the use of tax payers' money to fund them.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Oh, and if you're worried about the public purse paying my wage for much longer, it won't. As from the end of March the only way that I will get paid is if the Arts Centre is making a profit and there is enough to pay me. So, yes, I will be chasing every single bit of funding that is out there in order to earn a living.

Good. I think that's great news, and I genuinely wish you every success.

As I have before, regarding the Civic arts centre.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

They are about the use of tax payers' money to fund them.

Nail on the head, this is getting ridiculous gayle, anyone that knows ya or of ya knows yer n honest lass, who works damned hard in yer vocation, no matter what money is designated in what area, many find it unpalatable that tax payers money goes in that area in these times, simple as, aint rocket science.

[jaysay]

All this fuss about two bobs worth of tax payers money being spent on these projects, yet not a word was said when Blair and Brown were throwing billions of the same Tax Payers money about like confetti

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by jaysay

All this fuss about two bobs worth of tax payers money being spent on these projects, yet not a word was said when Blair and Brown were throwing billions of the same Tax Payers money about like confetti

Here we go again, and you call me for chiding Britcliffe all the time.

I'll quite happily say that mistakes were made by Labour, just the same as mistake are made by ALL governments. It doesn't make it right and it doesn't excuse them but if subsequent governments don't learn from the mistakes of the past then they're no better.

Politicians are quite keen to get into power and the thought of being voted out isn't a very happy one (I'll include myself in that number because there's going to come a day when I lose my seat and it won't be very nice, if I don't step down). However, if you clamour for control of government and get it don't blame everything you do as being the fault of your predecessor!

Neither HBC or Westminster are being held to ransom by Labour. They have control, it's up to them to make the decisions. I'll state this yet again:

NO ONE IS FORCING THE HYNDBURN TORIES TO SPEND OUR MONEY LIKE THIS.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

All this fuss about two bobs worth of tax payers money being spent on these projects, yet not a word was said when Blair and Brown were throwing billions of the same Tax Payers money about like confetti

Seems the records stuck again.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Seems the records stuck again.

Ya I've borrowed Mossy's

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

All this fuss about two bobs worth of tax payers money being spent on these projects, yet not a word was said when Blair and Brown were throwing billions of the same Tax Payers money about like confetti

Wrong.

There have been plenty of threads about other ways government, both national and local, have wasted tax payers' money, and there are many threads I've posted in, voicing my opinion. This thread is specific to the funding of publicly funded art.

'Two bob'?

I'd hardly call many thousands of pounds that, but as you've mentioned it, every penny paid in tax is hard earned, and I was always taught, if you look after the pennies, or two bob, the pounds look after themselves.

Perhaps if this was the case we wouldn't be living in a society which denies life saving treatments to children, because there aren't enough funds in our health care system to pay for them.

This thread isn't about party politics, it's about whether we value the worth of publicly funded art projects.

I, and it seems many others, don't.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by garinda

This thread isn't about party politics, it's about whether we value the worth of publicly funded art projects.

We now know that the flash mob dance will cost £1,000.00 to produce.

I'll ask again.

Does anyone know how much funding has been allocated to produce the Victorian Swimming Gala event on Broadway?

I'm guessing it might not be 'two bob'.

Again, if the public know the monetary costs involved, it will help them decide, when trying to evaluate these events true worth to the community.

[jaysay]

Hyndburn arts scheme spends £2,500 on crochet sculpture (From Lancashire Telegraph)
Looks like the Telegraph have been scanning this thread

[Acrylic-bob]

It is easy to criticise. Moreso when you know that tomorrow you will not have to go into work carrying with you the burden of that criticism. But the true art of criticism, and there is an art to it, lies in not only pointing out what is wrong, but also in suggesting a means by which the failing might be corrected. This is commonly referred to as 'constructive' criticism, for the simple reason that it's main aim is not solely to destroy but to restore to right order.

We have given freely of our opinion of the worth and value of the three community arts projects that Gayle has brought into the borough. If I were in Gayle's shoes I rather fancy that I would now be wondering which way to turn next.

As Gayle pointed out earlier in the thread, Hyndburn is a bit behind the rest of the country in seeking and securing funding from the National Lottery. If we do not like the projects that have been chosen for us then surely it is incumbent on us now to offer some constructive suggestions regarding what might be acceptable.

I'll start the ball rolling shall I?.

If you want to attract people into the town, it srikes me that you have to provide something that would make them really want to get in the car or get on a bus to come and see. And the only thing that get's Mr & Mrs Joe Bloggs and their bloglings off the sofa is spectacle. Strangely enough people really enjoy the sensation of having their socks blown off and this has been true of people throughout recorded history. The Egyptians knew this and so did the Romans, The renaissance princes made a political competition out of it and the church took to it like a duck to water. Louis xiv of France was a master at it and dear old Prince Albert had to drag us brits kicking and screaming into the Great Exhibition, but didn't we love it when we got there? Clearly in these straightened times HBC cannot afford to fund 'Spectacle', (it couldn't even when times were good but that is another argument) but the Lottery can!

Part of the criticism in this thread is due to the fact that a couple of idiots in fancy dress arsing about on broadway is actually more of an embarassment than a positive draw, A thousand idiots in fancy dress arsing about on Broadway on the other hand would make the national press. Similarly, a crocheted sculpture in the Market Hall is merely a bit of knotted wool, a teacosy to cover the Town Hall, by comparison... well, you get my drift?

Blackpool has for the last couple of years played host to an International Fireworks Competition, lasting a month. The crowds this event attracted had to be seen to be believed.
Haye-on -Wye decided to hold an annual literature festival, the book trade there is thriving all year round.

Accrington Town Hall is an underutilised gift to us from our Victorian forebears, as is the Market Hall and The Haworth. We have Parks and Playing fields aplenty and an enormous hill overlooking the town. We have a proud industrial past (which hardly anyone knows about) and quite a few living well known Accringtonians currently working in various fields within the Arts. It would be surprising to see what a few well aimed begging letters might achieve.

We have most of the physical requirements to put Accrington very firmly on the cultural map, We just need a bit of cash, a bit of vision and a bit of courage.


oh, and a lot of bare faced cheek!

[Acrylic-bob]

Barrie Yates on another thread, has reminded me of the approach of Remembrance Day. We go on and on about how much we respect the sacrifice of the pals and our other war dead but what do we really do to preserve the memory of their sacrifice, apart from gradually dwindling processions once a year? With our history we should be leading the nation on Remembrance Day and the ceremony in Whitehall should be a side show by comparison.

All these facets of our collective history can and must be used to help the town.