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Old 23-08-2006, 12:02   #1
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Unhappy Were They Right To Object?

We all know about the recent incident where some passengers on an aeroplane demanded that they be allowed to leave the plane because of the actions of two men, who just happened to be of Asian extraction or have those men removed?

Without a shadow of a doubt – YES! They were right to object but not, as has been suggested, because they were Asian or Muslim but because of their behaviour prior to boarding and on board.

According to an eye witness who was on the same flight, they spent most of the time prior to boarding wandering around and starring at the other passengers. As the passengers started to board they hung back so that they were the last two to board. They spoke to each other bilingually both off and on the plane.

Once on board, again according to an eye witness and a RAF pilot, the two men had no hand luggage but wore heavy coats fully buttoned up. In short they were inappropriately dressed for the warmth of an aeroplane cabin.

Prior to take off they both visited the toilets and when finally seated they continued their bilingual conversation in a rowdy manner kept looking under the seats and behaving rather oddly.

No terrorist is going to draw attention to himself by such actions, as he would try to appear as normal as everyone else, so I think that these two guys’ actions were a deliberate attempt to disrupt the flight.

Their actions were the modern equivalent of the UXB in WWII.

As someone wrote to the Ceefax letters pages, on the one hand we are asked to be vigilant and report any suspicious packages or actions yet now when the general public do just that the PC brigade are up in arms.
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Last edited by jambutty; 23-08-2006 at 12:05.
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:17   #2
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

It should never be up to the passengers to decide who is or is not allowed on an aircraft.

Passengers know nowt abaout aviation security (ok 99.999% of the time)

That would be one step off "mob rule" and all the perfectly innocent asians would be quite rightly furious at such levels of idiocy.

If individuals are acting suspiciously (but proven to be innocent) it is up to the captain of the plane to decide who is allowed on or not.

A counter argument here is that the compaining passengers should have been booted off the plane for being bigots and the suspects given an upgrade to business class to compensate for the emotional turmoil of mob rule.

Maybe they were acting suspiciously *because everybody was staring at them*





I'm a qualified pilot btw so I'd like to think my opinion has some validity!
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:23   #3
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

Well.. if it was me who'd just boarded a plane and I thought certain individuals were being suspicious I would deffinently make my feeling aware to the cabin crew, and if not, the majority of the passengers in the same cabin. Id rather scare them to death forcing them to leave the plane, than actually leaving it and them actually facing death.

:/
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:29   #4
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CusCus
It should never be up to the passengers to decide who is or is not allowed on an aircraft.
True.. but they are allowed to refuse to go on themselves..


Quote:
Originally Posted by CusCus
That would be one step off "mob rule" and all the perfectly innocent asians would be quite rightly furious at such levels of idiocy.
did you read jambuttys question all the way through? he said certainly not just because they where asians but because of there actions... so lets get off the asian point eh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CusCus
If individuals are acting suspiciously (but proven to be innocent) it is up to the captain of the plane to decide who is allowed on or not.
the above point is exactly the same as your first point... and your right.. but again the other passenders are allowed to do what they did and its up to the captain or whoever to decide what action to take..

Quote:
Originally Posted by CusCus
A counter argument here is that the compaining passengers should have been booted off the plane for being bigots
Again you are not talking about the same thing jambutty is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CusCus
Maybe they were acting suspiciously *because everybody was staring at them*
silly comment


Quote:
Originally Posted by CusCus
I'm a qualified pilot btw so I'd like to think my opinion has some validity!
Given the above post I would dissagree
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:43   #5
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIPAX
True.. but they are allowed to refuse to go on themselves..

did you read jambuttys question all the way through? he said certainly not just because they where asians but because of there actions... so lets get off the asian point eh.

the above point is exactly the same as your first point... and your right.. but again the other passenders are allowed to do what they did and its up to the captain or whoever to decide what action to take..

Again you are not talking about the same thing jambutty is.


silly comment


Given the above post I would dissagree
As you've agreed with the principle point here that it should never be up to the passengers so there's no need to disagree on the rest.

I'm equally happy to drop the Asian point and concentrate purely on the actions of the individuals involved, but the nexus or the argument remains the same. (although last remark, I have no doubt that plenty of the concerns by the other passengers had their basis in ethnicity at best or racism at worst)

My last comment was certainly a little flippant, but based upon many years of global frequent flier miles and frequent meetings with airlines and airport authorities I don't think it's silly. I've seen some pretty awful things happen due to misunderstandings.

As I'm fairly new around here it's interesting to see my post being dissected so much, but not that well given the fundamental agreement

Anyway I'm off for lunch now so tatty bye, I'll no doubt encounter you again before long

PS just been looking at your website Kipax - Good work!
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:44   #6
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

I would not have flown with those guys either......and not because they were asian, but because of their suspect behaviour. We are all asked to be vigilant and these passengers were reporting their observations and noting their reluctance to travel with these men. I too, would have walked off the plane and organised another means of transport. I value my life too much to take such a risk in such troubled times.
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:44   #7
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Talking Re: Were They Right To Object?

This affair wasn’t about Asians or Muslims CusCus although some of the media is desperately trying to make it so. It was about two passengers behaving suspiciously and in light of recent events as far back as 9/11 the other passengers were right to voice their concern.

You may be a qualified pilot CusCus, we have no way of knowing other than your word, but are you’re an airline pilot who regularly pilots a passenger plane?

If you are, then you would know that the pilot is God on a plane and he or she can remove any passenger if she or he deems it to be the right thing to do and does not have to justify his or her actions to the other passengers.

Someone please remind me when was the last time that a Caucasian blew himself and others up in a suicide bombing. You get loud mouthed and violent drunks creating mayhem and they get treated just the same. If the crew don’t instigate it passenger complaints will get the drunk removed from the plane.
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:50   #8
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty
This affair wasn’t about Asians or Muslims CusCus although some of the media is desperately trying to make it so. It was about two passengers behaving suspiciously and in light of recent events as far back as 9/11 the other passengers were right to voice their concern.

You may be a qualified pilot CusCus, we have no way of knowing other than your word, but are you’re an airline pilot who regularly pilots a passenger plane?

If you are, then you would know that the pilot is God on a plane and he or she can remove any passenger if she or he deems it to be the right thing to do and does not have to justify his or her actions to the other passengers.

Someone please remind me when was the last time that a Caucasian blew himself and others up in a suicide bombing. You get loud mouthed and violent drunks creating mayhem and they get treated just the same. If the crew don’t instigate it passenger complaints will get the drunk removed from the plane.
I'n not an airline pilot (too dull, underpaid, interferes with boozing ) but the point that the pilot is God on a plane is true across the board, so yes I am aware of this (should have said so in my 1st post!)

Yes, the passengers were right to voice their concerns and refuse to fly if they want, but I'm not happy with the "either they go off the plane or we do" attitute which seems to have prevailed. Very much in agreement with your comment about the press.
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:50   #9
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

One point with JB's post, I find aircraft cabins to generally be quite cold rather than hot. If it was a night flight I always take my jacket on so I can be warm.

as for them acting starngely, the human mind is quite strange, remember after the bloke who got shot on teh underground, dozens of 'eye witnesses' came forward believing they saw all sorts of things that simply weren't true yet these rational people really believed they saw what they thought they saw.
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Old 23-08-2006, 13:04   #10
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Exclamation Re: Were They Right To Object?

Quote:
I'n not an airline pilot (too dull, underpaid, interferes with boozing )
Are you implying that you fly a plane whilst under the influence of alcohol CusCus?

The pilot could have refused to remove the two ‘suspects’ thus leaving the objectors free to leave. But what if the complainers were right and there was a tragic incident? He could not afford to take the chance so the two guys had to go. As someone has already pointed out – better to be dead wrong than plain dead.

However the two ‘suspects’ after being cleared by the airport security authorities behaved in exactly the same manner whilst waiting for the next plane and after boarding it. According to an eye witness there were comments from other passengers only this time they were reassured that there was no cause for alarm.
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Old 23-08-2006, 13:12   #11
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jambutty
Are you implying that you fly a plane whilst under the influence of alcohol CusCus?

.

Only if the stewardesses have run out of drugs
How else do you think they manage to smile all day



..kidding, obviously

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Old 23-08-2006, 14:41   #12
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

They were lucky the plane was in Malaga and not London.

Wearing leather jackets on a hot day, they would probably have been shot.
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Old 23-08-2006, 14:49   #13
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda
They were lucky the plane was in Malaga and not London.

Wearing leather jackets on a hot day, they would probably have been shot.
You really are a total ****** at times, Rindy. Do you know how many people were shot by the cops in Britain last year? About half a dozen - with only two or three fatally. This contrasts with a ten times that number in Spain, France and Germany.

I suspect your not-so-subtle reference is to that dodgy Brazilian, who no doubt had he been in this country legally would not have struggled when confronted by armed police and thus would still be alive today.
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Old 23-08-2006, 14:55   #14
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tealeaf
You really are a total ****** at times, Rindy. Do you know how many people were shot by the cops in Britain last year? About half a dozen - with only two or three fatally. This contrasts with a ten times that number in Spain, France and Germany.

I suspect your not-so-subtle reference is to that dodgy Brazilian, who no doubt had he been in this country legally would not have struggled when confronted by armed police and thus would still be alive today.

Er..... did they know that he was an illegal immigrant at the time? I suspect not, because they thought he was a terrorist, when infact he wasn't, when they shot to kill on a crowded tube at Stockwell.

His crime?

Wearing a leather jacket and being a bit dusky skinned on a warm day. A bit like the two men who were asked to leave the plane in Malaga.

It takes a ****** to know a ****** old boy.
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Old 23-08-2006, 14:57   #15
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Re: Were They Right To Object?

You'd better pray thay Jim Bowen doesn't turn to terrorism by throwing about poisened darts...otherwise you may find yourself shunned by the general public.
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