Bethel Chapel "walking" crusade - Page 2

Karateman · 14-02-2012, 18:25

Not sure if my mum said it was a Methodist church not Baptist.
Anyway I have found a map of the area showing the Chapel in Gatty Park where I said.

The banner says..... Bethel Crusaders and at the bottom Saved to serve and in the middle something Jesus Always Something

The map is named..... Accwest1890.

Am I allowed to post it?

Phil

susie123 · 14-02-2012, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karateman

Not sure if my mum said it was a Methodist church not Baptist.
Anyway I have found a map of the area showing the Chapel in Gatty Park where I said.

The banner says..... Bethel Crusaders and at the bottom Saved to serve and in the middle something Jesus Always Something

The map is named..... Accwest1890.

Am I allowed to post it?

Phil

It's at
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environ...cc/accwest.jpg

but it just says Chapel not Bethel.

Bob Dobson · 14-02-2012, 19:11

Without being disrespectful to Catholics - these ladies are not dressed up enough.to be RCs. Not enough pomp.No rosaries to be seen.
The Infant St (opposite Maundy) group was The Rechabites - a part of the tee-total movement.
I have doubts about what has been said about Gatty Park except that there was an RC church at the bottom of Owd Bob's.
Whilst Wylie mentions Bethel in his book on Baptists in Accrington, he also wrote History of the Bethel Baptist Church (Barnes St) published in 1929. Hargreaves wrote about Methodism in Acc.
It is annoying that I cannot keep going back to the photo as I am writing this.
If the location is on Blackburn Rd between Fox St & Scaitcliffe St, (Brunswick Terrace), the shop windows seen could have been No 179, where, in 1951, there was a newsagent /sub PO kept by Miss Knight. I don't remember it.
In 1951 (directory) there are several shops listed on Blackburn rd Church on the block between Market St and the boundary by the side of the lodge.
w

susie123 · 14-02-2012, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dobson

Without being disrespectful to Catholics - these ladies are not dressed up enough.to be RCs. Not enough pomp.No rosaries to be seen.
The Infant St (opposite Maundy) group was The Rechabites - a part of the tee-total movement.
I have doubts about what has been said about Gatty Park except that there was an RC church at the bottom of Owd Bob's.
Whilst Wylie mentions Bethel in his book on Baptists in Accrington, he also wrote History of the Bethel Baptist Church (Barnes St) published in 1929. Hargreaves wrote about Methodism in Acc.
It is annoying that I cannot keep going back to the photo as I am writing this.
If the location is on Blackburn Rd between Fox St & Scaitcliffe St, (Brunswick Terrace), the shop windows seen could have been No 179, where, in 1951, there was a newsagent /sub PO kept by Miss Knight. I don't remember it.
In 1951 (directory) there are several shops listed on Blackburn rd Church on the block between Market St and the boundary by the side of the lodge.
w

Bob, you can open the photo in a window or tab: click on the thumbnail in post 2, when the photo appears click on it once and it should open in a separate window which you can refer to while typing in the Accyweb window - works for me anyway!

Not sure anyone mentioned the photo being of RCs and those women look as though they are wearing overalls - also I wouldn't associate the phrase Bethel Crusaders with Catholics.

Have just looked on Google Steetview and the two houses to the right of Gatty pk on Hyndburn road are typical mid 19C Gothis so could have been associated with the chapel which Phil says was between them.

Re the photo, if that is a shop front, why do the upstairs windows say Accrington Corporation?

Karateman · 14-02-2012, 19:47

Not sure why some seem to doubt my mother saying the chapel she went to for a lot of years was not called the Bethel. I have no reason to think she was maybe telling porkies. She was never a Catholic as far as I can remember....always methodist I'm sure.

My brother Donald also confirmed it was on Hyndburn rd and he was 10 years older than me so he probably new more detail more than me. Sadly he passed away last year.

I think I can find some more photos which may have been taken outside the chapel, in the same "uniform" not overalls. May not show a lot of detail though....

Phil

Karateman · 14-02-2012, 20:05

Some more photos which I think were in front of the Chapel...

In them my mum is wearing the same uniform as in the Walking photo.....

If I am wrong and with all the doubting, I am beginning to doubt myself now.......and this isn't Hyndburn rd then I apologise..

Phil

susie123 · 14-02-2012, 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karateman

Not sure why some seem to doubt my mother saying the chapel she went to for a lot of years was not called the Bethel. I have no reason to think she was maybe telling porkies. She was never a Catholic as far as I can remember....always methodist I'm sure.

My brother Donald also confirmed it was on Hyndburn rd and he was 10 years older than me so he probably new more detail more than me. Sadly he passed away last year.

I think I can find some more photos which may have been taken outside the chapel, in the same "uniform" not overalls. May not show a lot of detail though....

Phil

We're not doubting your mum Phil just saying that the only Bethel WE know is Barnes Street.

And we are trying to help identify the photo's location, so please try and bear with us.

I have just spent half an hour on Streetview progressing along Blackburn road both sides from the railway bridge towards Church since those buildings should be easy toidentify if they still exist, even with recent shop fronts etc. The type of stonework, arrangement of windows etc should help, but couldn't spot any resemblances.

If they are on Blackburn road then I think they must be where Bob said, between Fox and Scaitcliffe streets - now knocked down.

Karateman · 14-02-2012, 20:31

Sorry Susie, I thought Bob said the chapel was definately RC in Gatty Park ( was there another chapel in the area of the Park?....anyway I too have just done a bit of trawling along Blackburn rd and all the stone work seems to be of the more rougher type. In the pic it appears to be more smoother. And the majority of the shops on the left side dont have houses next to them...they appear to be a full row of shops or a full row of houses.
If it is between Fox street and Scaitcliffe st then they must be actually walking towards Church not Accy.

Hang on, just looked at the row after the Imperial pub and also the row just past the railway arch opposite Eagle st .......smooth brickwork, two story, getting closer to corporation offices in the Eagle st area...just a thought

Do the other photos help?

Phil

susie123 · 14-02-2012, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karateman

Sorry Susie, I thought Bob said the chapel was definately RC in Gatty Park ( was there another chapel in the area of the Park?....anyway I too have just done a bit of trawling along Blackburn rd and all the stone work seems to be of the more rougher type. In the pic it appears to be more smoother. And the majority of the shops on the left side dont have houses next to them...they appear to be a full row of shops or a full row of houses.
If it is between Fox street and Scaitcliffe st then they must be actually walking towards Church not Accy.

Hang on, just looked at the row after the Imperial pub and also the row just past the railway arch opposite Eagle st .......smooth brickwork, two story, getting closer to corporation offices in the Eagle st area...just a thought

Do the other photos help?

Phil

Great photos Phil and the chapel appears to have a gothic look to it.

Agree completely with you about the buildings on Blackburn Road.

Received wisdom about the Hyndburn road building is that it was a catholic chapel originally built 1850s which ties in with the gothic style architecture ans the two remaining houses, after Sacred Heart was built in 1860s it was used ? as a warehouse till it burnt down. But who knows, it was still marked as a chapel on that 1890 map...

susie123 · 14-02-2012, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karateman

Not sure if my mum said it was a Methodist church not BaptistPhil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karateman

Not sure why some seem to doubt my mother saying the chapel she went to for a lot of years was not called the Bethel. I have no reason to think she was maybe telling porkies. She was never a Catholic as far as I can remember....always methodist I'm sure.Phil

Are we now saying your mum was a methodist not a baptist as that may change things...

Good photo here of the two houses on Hyndburn Road:

Roman Catholic Transepts, Hyndburn Road, Accrington | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Karateman · 14-02-2012, 22:39

As far as my memory serves me from being a small boy, my mum has always been a Methodist, although I wouldn't swear that when she found religion in the late 20's early 30's she may have worshipped in baptist churches. She was definatley protestant and had never been catholic..ever.

If the Chapel in Gatty Park had been catholic at some time, maybe it changed to a protestant church at some point

Where was the bethel on Barnes street...cant see it on Accy map of 1890?

Phil

susie123 · 15-02-2012, 08:50

We need to establish whether the chapel in the photos with your mum is actually the building that was between those two houses on Hyndburn road, also when it burnt down.

Although they have gothic details, not sure that those two houses were part of a church. If they were transepts with a church between, as Atarah says in the comment on Flickr, the roofs would have been at 90 degrees to the way they are now, ie with the ridge line heading towardsthe building in the middle rather than parallel to it.

Also if part of a church there would not have been chimneys or upstairs windows and if these were put in after the church was destroyed it would have been after 1930 or so if the chapel photos are of that building, but they don't look like they are a late addition.

I think these may have been separate buildings, perhaps a presbytery and a Sunday school but all in all quite substantiial buildings to have only been used for a short time before Sacred Heart was built.

Wish I were in Accy, I would go and have a look at the houses myself..

susie123 · 15-02-2012, 08:56

Looking at the second of the chapel photos, the detail of the head of the window to the right of the porch is different from that of the windows in the gable end of the Hyndburn road houses, suggesting that they were not all part of the same buiding.

susie123 · 15-02-2012, 09:00

Found this on Flickr, it's the same as on the banner in the walking photo. So I still wonder if Bethel was just the name of this organisation rather than the chapel.

Galleries | Bethel Crusaders badge (c.1930) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

And more...

An enamel badge issued by the Bethel Evangelistic Society (BES) between 1929 and 1933. The ‘Bethel Crusaders’ were members of the BES who were active in the Ministry and took part in their evangelising campaigns. The badge’s text reads BETHEL CRUSADERS – SHINING FOR JESUS . ALWAYS . EVERYWHERE.

The Bethel Crusaders were founded in 1929 by Edward Jefferys (1889-1974) who was strongly influenced when growing up in a time of evangelical revivals. His father (Stephen) and uncle (George) were also highly active evangelical preachers

In 1926 Edward became a full-time Christian Minister and along with his father branched out from the Elim Pentecostal Church to form their own ministries. Through the persuasion of father, Edward formed the Bethel Evangelistic Society (BES) in 1929 at Bristol and this rapidly expanded over the next few years. However, an acrimonious split occurred in the BES during 1933 due to doctrinal differences but Edward persevered with his Ministry and continued the BES evangelising campaigns until the end of the 1930’s. Evangelical campaigning in Britain was in decline during this period and so coupled with financial difficulties and the outbreak of war in 1939, the BES was wound down. Edward continued his evangelical work and in 1948 took up a new ministry within the Anglican Church.

.
References:
www.liverpoolrevival.org.uk/biography.htm (Edward Jefferys and the Bethel Crusaders movement).

www.elim.org.uk/Group/Group.aspx?ID=109308 (History of the Elim Pentecostal Church founded by George Jefferys, Edward’s uncle).

.

susie123 · 15-02-2012, 09:28

More about Jeffreys and the crusades from the Liverpool web link in my previous post.

He and his colleagues founded the ‘Bethel Crusaders’ designed to link the young people in the crusades, giving them suitable training for aggressive evangelism.

The revival tide rolled on through the cotton towns of Lancashire and in many of them Bethel churches were formed.

During this time the ‘Bethel Full Gospel Messenger’ magazine was launched and Gospel caravans were purchased for rural missions and a Bible College and Missionary Training Centre was opened in Bristol in 1931.

Sadly in the midst of all this considerable growth problems were emerging. There were many critics and opposition was being received from local authorities. The main problem, however, concerned divisions within the Bethel Movement itself that came to a head in 1932. There was unease about Edward Jeffreys’ leadership style, doctrine and perceived lack of financial accountability which led to the resignation from the Society of the entire advisory board and 12 out of the 60 Bethel churches. The Society was never the same again.

In the following year (1933) there was further split when due to doctrinal differences over the Baptism of the Holy Spirit a number of people left the Bethel churches or took their churches out of the Bethel movement, many of them joining the Assemblies of God, or the Elim Pentecostal Church.

Edward Jeffreys, however, continued to hold crusades throughout the 1930’s mainly in the Merseyside and Lancashire areas and he planted several strong evangelical churches, which continue to this day.

By the end of the 1930’s, however, large-scale evangelistic crusades had begun to decline in popularity and success, with the Second World War now occupying the public’s time and attention.