Myfootballclub

[Malcolmx]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Okay, Accy taken over by MyFC. First game 25,000 members want to buy a commerative programme @ say £2.50 each, plus pst and packaging etc. £62,500 and not bought a ticket yet. 25,000 members over the season want to buy merchandise (remember we would all be part owners) so we want to make a success of uor investment.say £30 each £750,000 mounts up does it not? And still no match tickets bought. Do the math and come to your own conclusion, if MyFC would be a good thing for your club... </TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
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Originally Posted by doheochai

Actually I don't - most do but not all


remember there are currently about 25,000 paid up members - even if a couple of hundred wanted to, they couldn't scupper the club from such a minority position. Even with this, the regular comment made by people in this situation has been 'operate in the best interests of the club and root for the team I support in this one game'. The over-riding intent by MFC members is to make the project succeed and that can only be done by working in the best interests of the club.


Scepticism is healthy.

[shakermaker]

I truly hope these MyFC people come nowhere near Accrington Stanley Football Club.
I for one hold this club far too dearly to allow it to be experimented on in such a way.
I'm sorry if I offend any MyFC members as I do not intend to in the slightest; but all advantages considered your organisation appears to me like an over-eager child attempting to take a stand in a man's game.
If you lot really want to reaffirm the fans' stance within the beautiful game, then I would suggest that your organisation takes it's money and uses it to form a new club and see it rise through the football pyramid so that you may support it with full heart.
Please don't go hijacking an existing club such as this, which has rich history and real fans, not ones that just want their yearly membership fee's worth.

[MichiganRed]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

I truly hope these MyFC people come nowhere near Accrington Stanley Football Club.

I can't help but find myself in wholehearted agreement with shakermaker on this issue. From the moment I heard about this group and their intentions I felt there was something fundamentally wrong with the situation. After giving it probably more thought than it deserves, I have come up with the reason it bothers me so much.

Yes, we all want to see our club progress on the pitch and climb the leagues. Yes, we want to be proud of our facilities. Yes, we want to provide opportunities for future players through the Youth Academy and soccer schools. Yes, we want to see the club become a major marketing force in and around Accrington and beyond.

The question that begs to be asked is this -- How are we going to accomplish these goals? Do we want the instant fix these people promise or do we want to get down and dirty and slog through the muck and fight to make this club what we know it can be?

Those of you who run a business or who have put time and effort into a charitable effort know what I am talking about. Those of you who watched the doors close on Peel Park and suffered through the empty years will understand what makes this so objectionable to me.

These people are professing the desire to "give football back to the fans" but when all is said and done, they will have accomplished just the opposite. They will be taking away the things that make a football club more than just another business enterprise.

The struggles we go through as supporters of this great club are what give life and value to the club. The pride and joy we felt at winning the Conference didn't stem entirely from the results on the pitch. We celebrated our success with such fervor because of the fight and struggle it required. They can come in and drop their loads of cash and improve the facilities and sell more shirts and programs but it won't be the same as what it could be.

So, in the end, I say, "Go away and don't look back." Sure, we're going to struggle and fight but when we do succeed, it will be for the right reasons and it will be all the sweeter.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

.... and if Buy-the-club get bored and have the 70% majority that says sell up? who are the idiots left with inflated wage bills they may not be able to service?

.... and if Buy-the-club make a mess of their "experiment" (that journo's words what conceived the idea) who are the idiots that will be left trying to save a club that has been sent to rack and ruin?

The idea has a lot of merit but nobody will ever know if it works until it has worked, or failed. The benefits are huge - but the pitfalls are also as big.

I don't see your first scenario as likely. Bored members simply won't renew while new ones will be appearing at the same time. The total number of members will aways be in flux. But the bored members will not suddenly persuade 75% of all members to sell; they'll simply not renew and leave the trust.

Your second scenario is a valid concern, and no one--Stanley supporter or MyFC member--wants to see the club ruined. But I obviously believe this would work well or I wouldn't have subscribed myself.

[Rowan]

I appreciate reading the thoughtful and calm responses to my posts (and others) of late. Skepticism and debate are healthy, and as I said earlier, I certainly don't speak for the management team that is carrying out whatever negotiations are under way. For all we know, there's been no contact between Stanley and MyFC.

But as an admitted outsider, my first thought when I began to learn about your club is that it's a proud club with a long history, but no one is supporting it. Let's face it, just over 100 season tickets sold? That's not exactly a groundswell of local support.

If -- and I realize it's still a huge IF now -- MyFC were to buy Stanley, what changes except for a huge influx of new supporters and cash to the team? Most of the members are going to vote based on the head coach's recommendations regarding team selection, so the only real difference is that now there are a lot of owners instead of one. Our goals are the same as yours--the success of the club. We're able to bring in a regular cash infusion to help the club grow.

My personal belief is that too much emphasis is being placed on the idea that the members will be picking the starting lineup. It's true...we will vote on those decisions. But I seriously doubt if our collective choices would be far different from what any traditional manager would have chosen. The actual range of choices isn't that broad to begin with. There are only so many realistic combinations of players on one squad. And with injuries and fitness issues, I suspect our lineups would be the same as another manager would choose the vast majority of the time.

All that said, I completely understand your reservations and concerns. I came on this board because I'm interested in knowing more about Stanley and I wanted to have the opportunity to address some of the misconceptions about MyFC. I hope we can continue to discuss the possibilities the way we've begun.

[Redash]

Originally Posted by Rowan

My personal belief is that too much emphasis is being placed on the idea that the members will be picking the starting lineup. It's true...we will vote on those decisions. But I seriously doubt if our collective choices would be far different from what any traditional manager would have chosen. The actual range of choices isn't that broad to begin with. There are only so many realistic combinations of players on one squad. And with injuries and fitness issues, I suspect our lineups would be the same as another manager would choose the vast majority of the time.

Herein lies the problem, 25-50 thousand people picking the starting 11 and subs.

• How long will it take to vote and have the votes counted?

• How will you be able to sort out tactics one hour before the game, when you first see the opposition team sheet?

• What safeguards do you have in relation to the opposition management having shares in the club? (Are there not rules about opposition management influencing team selections and tactics?)

• What about the stick of being called FRANCHISE FC?

Whilst the Idea is sound, the practicality is absurd, and unworkable.
The only way I can see, to make it work, is to just have your members as share holders with only an opinion at the AGM, and a management team and board of directors to oversee the club.

[doheochai]

Originally Posted by MichiganRed

The question that begs to be asked is this -- How are we going to accomplish these goals? Do we want the instant fix these people promise or do we want to get down and dirty and slog through the muck and fight to make this club what we know it can be?

MFC will not be an instant fix. It will take time and effort to develop any club that MFC buys. It will take time and effort to involve and include the current supporter base of the club and it will take time and effort to preserve the basis and traditions of the club.

Football in England has changed quite dramatically over the past 15-20 years. Gone are the days when the likes of Derby, Burnley, Ipswich or Nottm Forest could be champions of England. The gap between rich and poor/ big and small clubs has widened into a chasim.

Even the continued existance of clubs is dependent on the continued input of investors to keep the club afloat (the recent example of Halifax). MFC is not an instant fix. In the first year all funds will go to the purchase of the club, clearing debts and stabilising the club. The second or subsequent years offer the potential for extra funds to be available but there are many situations that could develop to inhibit the impact of the funding. It will take time and effort. Nobody in MFC is interested in changing a club. For MFC the intent is to allow a club to develop organically without been inhibited by the lack of funding that is afflicting so many of the lower league clubs that don't have someone to come in and throw 4 or 5 million pounds at the problem (e.g. Peterborough).

These people are professing the desire to "give football back to the fans" but when all is said and done, they will have accomplished just the opposite. They will be taking away the things that make a football club more than just another business enterprise.

How will we achieve the opposite? How will actually giving the fans a say in the running of a club turn it into a business enterprise rather than a football club? How will involving existing fans in the running of the club be negative?

Let me pose it this way - how many football clubs in England are owned and run by some rich individual who uses it as a plaything and then when he gets fed up - shafts the club and buggers off leaving a trail of disaster in his wake?

They can come in and drop their loads of cash and improve the facilities and sell more shirts and programs but it won't be the same as what it could be.

The cash, shirts, programmes are a minor part of what MFC is trying to do. Nothing is static - life changes - every situation has to progress or go backwards - it cannot stay the same. Some people don't like change, but change is inevitable. The question to consider is - How will that change be managed.

So, in the end, I say, "Go away and don't look back." Sure, we're going to struggle and fight but when we do succeed, it will be for the right reasons and it will be all the sweeter.

The football fans who are members of MFC acknowledge and recognise this sentiment - the problem is that unless there is a steady inflow of finance into any club then the club will be in severe difficulty. Remember there are only two clubs in England that consistantly show a profit. Now consider where the money comes from - is it better that it comes from an individual with dubious motives or from a large group of fans who want to promote, protect and develop the club without any hidden agenda?

[doheochai]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

I would suggest that your organisation takes it's money and uses it to form a new club and see it rise through the football pyramid so that you may support it with full heart.

I am open to suggestions - where?

Please don't go hijacking an existing club such as this, which has rich history and real fans, not ones that just want their yearly membership fee's worth.

The people who are members of MFC are real fans - all of them. No one wants to hijack anything - we want to buy a club that needs assistance and develop the club with old and new fans working hand-in-hand together.

No matter where MFC goes it will be stepping on some people's toes. This includes any place where we could start a new club.

[doheochai]

Let me say initially that I am in favour of a manager deciding the team etc. There has been, and continues to be a long and detailed discussion about this on MFC forums. However, if the majority decide to go this route I will actively participate - and if it doesn't work then MFC will change the process.

Originally Posted by Redash

How long will it take to vote and have the votes counted?

The logistics are actually not a problem. The votes will be made and counted within a short period of time over the internet.

How will you be able to sort out tactics one hour before the game, when you first see the opposition team sheet?

Again this is one of the problems that has been discussed among MFC members - the suggestion is that we set-up our team to play the way we want them and let the oppsotition play they want to - and the coach will have the authority to alter the formation if necessary. Same thing would apply to subs.

What safeguards do you have in relation to the opposition management having shares in the club? (Are there not rules about opposition management influencing team selections and tactics?)

To be honest this will not be a problem - the only way that a club could influence tactics is if they stump up £35 memebrship for maybe 10,000 members and then have several hundred people to operate the online voting mechanism - What club in League 2 or the Conference has that kind of money and those numbers of people to throw away on the off chance of influencing the outcome of the match.

What about the stick of being called FRANCHISE FC?

We are not franchise fc - because we don't want to up-root any club and move it from a to b (like the MK Dons). We want to buy a club, work with existing supporters and the local community to develop the club in a way that involves as many people as possible.

Whilst the Idea is sound, the practicality is absurd, and unworkable.

Time will tell.

[maccawozzagod]

You will get stick from inception until the day it dies. That club will forever have the stigma of having bought the title etc (not that it is guaranteed).


Theonly fun part of it if Stanley got involved would be to swamp bloody confguide every night and just not let the buggers talk about anything ..... and then every other board they move to.


... and would we gain 50 000 new fans or gain 250 000 new haters?

[MichiganRed]

It appears as though you have missed my point entirely. You and your 50,000 fellow investors are every bit the faceless entity that an investment bank would be. You won't be riding the coaches to the away games. You won't be selling programs on matchdays. You won't be collecting money for the 50/50 drawings. You won't be showing up at the FES to help paint the railings on the terraces. You won't be singing with the Ultras and raising the new roof with passion and pride and the celebration of all things Stanley.

You'll be logging into a website to help fulfill some lost childhood dream of running a football club. You'll be writing a check and looking at results on Teletext. You'll be patting yourself on the back for saving some poor miserable club from its struggling existence without having the foresight to understand that you are gutting the very spirit that made the club worth loving and supporting.

Now, I will grant you there is one major difference between an investment banker and your group -- most investment bankers are smart enough to know what they don't know and allow the people with the knowledge and experience to operate the ventures they undertake.

Your group is nothing more than a fantasy football league run amok in the real world.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by Redash

Herein lies the problem, 25-50 thousand people picking the starting 11 and subs.

• How long will it take to vote and have the votes counted?

• How will you be able to sort out tactics one hour before the game, when you first see the opposition team sheet?

• What safeguards do you have in relation to the opposition management having shares in the club? (Are there not rules about opposition management influencing team selections and tactics?)

• What about the stick of being called FRANCHISE FC?

Whilst the Idea is sound, the practicality is absurd, and unworkable.
The only way I can see, to make it work, is to just have your members as share holders with only an opinion at the AGM, and a management team and board of directors to oversee the club.

It's not unworkable at all. There are clear deadlines for voting on lineup decisions. The votes are cast via the website but the results are not announced until one hour before the game--the same time team sheets are announced. Obviously, our head coach knows the results before then to finish his preparations with the squad. Once the vote is in, however, the head coach takes over and during the match has the responsibility for managing adjustments to strategy and substitutes.

It doesn't matter if opposition clubs have access to our site as members. The results of the votes don't appear for us until they go public with the team sheets anyway. There won't be any advantage for them, and with so many members, no one is going to be able to put together a sabotage vote. It's just not possible given the numbers.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by MichiganRed

It appears as though you have missed my point entirely. You and your 50,000 fellow investors are every bit the faceless entity that an investment bank would be. You won't be riding the coaches to the away games. You won't be selling programs on matchdays. You won't be collecting money for the 50/50 drawings. You won't be showing up at the FES to help paint the railings on the terraces. You won't be singing with the Ultras and raising the new roof with passion and pride and the celebration of all things Stanley.

That's where I think you're exactly wrong. Obviously not all the members will be active locally for geographical reasons. But a good number of them will become as loyal a supporter as anyone already on this message board. And the club's support at away games will explode in size.

As it stands now, you only have a couple hundred "loyal" supporters now. I find it hard to fathom that you'd object to new ones who will be as committed or more so than many of the current supporters, if for no other reason than they will have a feeling of ownership to go with it.

[maccawozzagod]

okay then in a nutshell for you



we'd rather earn success

[Tin Monkey]

Stanley are lacking investment and if we're being honest, if we're going to prosper (or survive) at the level we're at, we need it pretty fast.

It's ok being all idealist, but somebody putting cash into the club has got to be a good thing. There are some technicalities of course, but I honestly don't see what Stanley would have to lose by engaging with this venture.