Sorry, Mr Burgess - still "tinpot"

[Tom D]

Originally Posted by mab

Stanley will make something on away fans that is true but also the away team(club) will make money on the ticket sales that the make when sold at there ground,a percentage is taken out as do Stanley when they sell any for away games.

Wasn't aware of this mab! Any idea what the percentage is?

[maccawozzagod]

with regards to income and how best to generate it, I would suggest that our club WILL always struggle to make ends meet through the gates. One thing I suggested to Mr Marsden when he took the Chair was that we absolutely must learn the lessons of history and this club is doomed to always be the underdog. Does that mean we give up? Absolutely not, but we need to devise ways around it.

How many people get a taxi or bus to the ground? we need to be taking that money. Stan Lee's Taxis?

How many pints do our fans drink on matchday in establishments other than ours? We need to be taking that money.

How many people buy food on matchdays from establishments other than ours? We need that money

How many people have gym memberships? we need to be taking that money and it would also be a place for our players to go.

The last comment is a crucial one for me. It's not just the gym idea, there are others. But something that the club may spend money could be turned into a business idea under our clubs umbrella. The club premises do not need to stop at Livingstone Road. We absolutely could have Stan Lee's Gym. There is nothing to stop you or I opening a gym in the town so there is nothing to stop the club doing so. Owned and operated by the club as a subsidised service for the squad but also ran as a standalone enterprise with all money going back into the club. Taxi's, catering establishments, whatever can all follow suit.

It's no good bemoaning the extra 1500 people who watched the culmination of the Conference season as times have changed in that ten years. We need to be brave and embrace an entire new way of operating where the gate money is not king.

[Tom D]

Particularly like the gym idea. Surely should be accommodated into any development plans for the stands.

Of course with a really excellent bar/food area

[deeayess]

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

with regards to income and how best to generate it, I would suggest that our club WILL always struggle to make ends meet through the gates. One thing I suggested to Mr Marsden when he took the Chair was that we absolutely must learn the lessons of history and this club is doomed to always be the underdog. Does that mean we give up? Absolutely not, but we need to devise ways around it.

How many people get a taxi or bus to the ground? we need to be taking that money. Stan Lee's Taxis?

How many pints do our fans drink on matchday in establishments other than ours? We need to be taking that money.

How many people buy food on matchdays from establishments other than ours? We need that money

How many people have gym memberships? we need to be taking that money and it would also be a place for our players to go.

The last comment is a crucial one for me. It's not just the gym idea, there are others. But something that the club may spend money could be turned into a business idea under our clubs umbrella. The club premises do not need to stop at Livingstone Road. We absolutely could have Stan Lee's Gym. There is nothing to stop you or I opening a gym in the town so there is nothing to stop the club doing so. Owned and operated by the club as a subsidised service for the squad but also ran as a standalone enterprise with all money going back into the club. Taxi's, catering establishments, whatever can all follow suit.

It's no good bemoaning the extra 1500 people who watched the culmination of the Conference season as times have changed in that ten years. We need to be brave and embrace an entire new way of operating where the gate money is not king.

While I agree with the sentiment I would suggest the logistics would not make it worthwhile other than the gym.

Taxis, food and drink would be restricted to a very small window once a week on average and probably only cover a couple of hours before and maybe an hour after if that.

People in general are creatures of habit and will drink in their usual pub, get the first taxi they can and if they choose food will expect it quickly.

Does the Crown make much of a profit over a week and would it take as much if there was an alternative?

Big away supports usually mean those horrible plastic glasses so another reason to go elsewhere away from the ground.

At the moment those ideas would be too risky for set up costs and staff unless you were going to run them full time and would it be wise to try to compete with existing businesses?

I can't honestly thing of alternatives that would generate significant revenue based on the size of our support and I would also be cautious about not having a back up plan because promotion is by no means a certainty. Chickens and hatched spring to mind.

[maccawozzagod]

well that's kinda the idea Tom, anything that would be incorporated into a new build stadium in order to generate revenue, could be just made anyway but in more relevant locations.

On the subject of a new stand, I sincerely hope the plans aren't particularly grand. In all honesty the Whinney Hill stand would not be used outside of match hours purely because of its location. The clubhouse has toyed with being a licensed premise mid week in the past, but down to its location was not used at all. The Whinney Hill stand would be even further off the beaten path as you'd have to walk all around the ground to get in.

[mab]

Originally Posted by Tom D

Wasn't aware of this mab! Any idea what the percentage is?

Sorry haven't a clue,MrT might be able to shed some light on this if he's allowed too.

[maccawozzagod]

Originally Posted by deeayess

Taxis, food and drink would be restricted to a very small window once a week on average and probably only cover a couple of hours before and maybe an hour after if that.

People in general are creatures of habit and will drink in their usual pub, get the first taxi they can and if they choose food will expect it quickly.

Does the Crown make much of a profit over a week and would it take as much if there was an alternative?

They dont have to be exclusive to a matchday though Duncan. Taxi's for example, Yes they would have exclusive rights to ferry people away from the ground (away fans @ £5 to the train station), but they would operate 7 days a week and be advertising our name. Buses, Specifically to bring in the people from Clitheroe or Darwen or Haslingden. Not profit making on their own but it would bring 30 people to the ground earlier, and stop later thus incurring its own profit. They too could then be put to use for other things such as the academy, do we spend money on transport during training? they could also bid for school contracts as well.

As far as pubs or catering establishments are concerned, yes they would be competing with other businesses. As I said, there's nothing to stop you or me from opening a competing business so there's nothing other than goodwill to stop Stanley from doing it. Why not take over a failing town centre pub? It doesn't necessarily mean that it will fail under our banner but it becomes another town centre establishment where tickets and information can be obtained. It could also be put to use for conferencing type meetings in the mornings. It could also become a main town centre meeting point prior to Stan Lee Buses ferrying you all up to The Crown. A catering business (or the pub itself) can supply better food for the Corporate dining, it could supply food for the Stan Lee owned burger bars on the ground and any waste could be put to use the following day rather than just becoming a statistic on the loss ledger.

For me, it's not necessarily The blueprint for how our club can prosper, but rather an outloud thought about how we need to think outside of the box.

But I will run with it and expand on how the conversation would go at Board level.

"Accyweb, Macca come up with an idea about how we should buy up all the town centre businesses and compete with others"
"it'd cost a fortune and upset some of our sponsors"
"drop the idea?
"yep"

If upsetting some sponsors really is a consideration then we could find ways of working with them rather than against them. For example with the taxis, Max Cabs would charge £2.50 to the train station and I personally would aim for a fiver with away fans who would be the prime target. Max get exclusive rights and keep the £2.50. We get £2.50 for doing nowt. Max put our sticker on their cars and pay us for the privilege, we push their rank above all others (fans need to join in the push).

Another pub wouldn't harm the other pubs in the slightest, the lack of pubs means a worse nightlife thus less people go out.

Lancashire Life has a list of restaurants in the county that offer fine dining - there are no listings for Accrington at all.

Ilyas Khan had the idea that a new ground could incorporate a hotel (can't see itself meself), does Accrington need a hotel? Well let's build it under the Stanley name. We instantly don't need to spend money on putting new players up and we can earn money. Yes Travelodge have the brand name that would bring its own customers in anyway, but we have 23 opportunities a year to fill the rooms to away fans.

None of these ideas are necessarily the best ones, merely examples. Stanley could (in theory) rebuild the town all by itself regardless of what help the council could offer.

Where does the money come from? Any money put into the Crown Ground could in theory be wasted money. Whinney Hill stand does not need to be built, £660,000 could quite easily be invested into a handful of ideas that are collective nous could be brought to bear upon. Small businesses often don't appear fruitful for a long time as the owner can't invest enough money into it to get it off the ground at the right speed, it has to be done slowly and organicly, reinvesting profits rather than drawing wages. We in thoery could throw money at things to get them going right away and at the desired level of profit.

[King Kev]

Well King Kev, you have obviously read the emails I have exchanged with the MD, you must have listened to the phone calls I have had with the MD. I can assure you I need no lessons of how to bring a club or myself into the modern world. Your patronising ignorant observations are just that. Have you seen our average gates? definitely no where near enough. I may have known the MD for a very short time but I judge people by deeds not just words. If you have not noticed I have not mentioned the MD for best part of a week but I knew somebody would. You suggest I have made my comments for selfish reasons!!!!!!!!! There is a world of difference between principle and selfish. The removal of the disabled concession without any warning or consultation. we then are told we are going cahless at the turnstiles for safety reasons. OK but why no option to purchase tickets on line? shows there is no infrastructure in place yet, we are met with people including the MD selling tickets in a pergola and taking cash. a bit bewildering I think, hardly the professional face we wish to show to the world.
I hope the MD has the nounce to know when he has got it wrong. Why not run his ideas past us in the supporters club at least? we are all supposed to be on the same side. I won't revisit old ground but I will not be eating humble pie. And just for the record I have done my share to help this club stay afloat, I want this club to move on to bigger and better things. I believe Andy Holt is the man with the vision and finance to do this. I don't think the new MD is the man to fulfil this ambition, As for trying to get more supporters through the gates, I suggest that perhaps yourself and the new MD go out in Hyndburn and encourage the Asian population to come as they make up a fair percentage of the community. But spouting the arrogant nonsense based on hear say is more likely to put people off. I am aware that the club needs to be put on a more commercial footing with enough revenue to progress. I think if you were to read my post's you will note where I have complained I have tried to offer a solution. I don't recall reading any posts from you. But whatever you or I think, we can't seem to raise our base attendance above 14/1500 excluding away fans. That is a serious problem that the club and fans need to address. we need to pull together not put fans off. I noticed you singled me out for criticism maybe the truth is getting through. A true supporter is a friend of the club and will speak out if they see things that need attention, keeping quiet helps nobody.
================================================== ================================================== =====================
One doesn’t need to read any exchange you may or may not have had with the MD, as your clear attack on a public forum says more about you than anyone else. One assumes the MD, has been brought in to the club by Andy Holt, the person you show so much support for, somewhat beggars believe. It matters not at this point in time if you or I are correct. Given the history of the club, Andy Holt pays his money and takes his choice (I assume) and in this case, he has installed a MD, I respectfully suggest everybody starts giving him a chance.

Your comment “I hope the MD has the nounce to know when he has got it wrong” you really don’t have an ounce of commercial sense, do you? The only time you will be happy is if every idea is run passed your personally and you rubber stamp it. Get a grip, the world moves at a very fast pace and commercial acumen these days, is just that, think on your feet and make decision quickly to react to situations as they arise and the key is to ensure that when you make those decisions the strategy is without loss. I don’t see any loss to date, apart from your credibility.

Although the key to my post was not lost on you was it? You just couldn’t resist raising the “disabled concessions” hence my comment selfish reasons. You are so transparent.

Don’t bother replying, as I have no intention of further debating with someone who has such a personnel insulin view of the current circumstances and as for humble Pie, you may wish to start licking your lips, as it won’t be too long before it’s been served. Tick Tock…..Tick Tock….

[deeayess]

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

They dont have to be exclusive to a matchday though Duncan. Taxi's for example, Yes they would have exclusive rights to ferry people away from the ground (away fans @ £5 to the train station), but they would operate 7 days a week and be advertising our name. Buses, Specifically to bring in the people from Clitheroe or Darwen or Haslingden. Not profit making on their own but it would bring 30 people to the ground earlier, and stop later thus incurring its own profit. They too could then be put to use for other things such as the academy, do we spend money on transport during training? they could also bid for school contracts as well.

As far as pubs or catering establishments are concerned, yes they would be competing with other businesses. As I said, there's nothing to stop you or me from opening a competing business so there's nothing other than goodwill to stop Stanley from doing it. Why not take over a failing town centre pub? It doesn't necessarily mean that it will fail under our banner but it becomes another town centre establishment where tickets and information can be obtained. It could also be put to use for conferencing type meetings in the mornings. It could also become a main town centre meeting point prior to Stan Lee Buses ferrying you all up to The Crown. A catering business (or the pub itself) can supply better food for the Corporate dining, it could supply food for the Stan Lee owned burger bars on the ground and any waste could be put to use the following day rather than just becoming a statistic on the loss ledger.

For me, it's not necessarily The blueprint for how our club can prosper, but rather an outloud thought about how we need to think outside of the box.

But I will run with it and expand on how the conversation would go at Board level.

"Accyweb, Macca come up with an idea about how we should buy up all the town centre businesses and compete with others"
"it'd cost a fortune and upset some of our sponsors"
"drop the idea?
"yep"

If upsetting some sponsors really is a consideration then we could find ways of working with them rather than against them. For example with the taxis, Max Cabs would charge £2.50 to the train station and I personally would aim for a fiver with away fans who would be the prime target. Max get exclusive rights and keep the £2.50. We get £2.50 for doing nowt. Max put our sticker on their cars and pay us for the privilege, we push their rank above all others (fans need to join in the push).

Another pub wouldn't harm the other pubs in the slightest, the lack of pubs means a worse nightlife thus less people go out.

Lancashire Life has a list of restaurants in the county that offer fine dining - there are no listings for Accrington at all.

Ilyas Khan had the idea that a new ground could incorporate a hotel (can't see itself meself), does Accrington need a hotel? Well let's build it under the Stanley name. We instantly don't need to spend money on putting new players up and we can earn money. Yes Travelodge have the brand name that would bring its own customers in anyway, but we have 23 opportunities a year to fill the rooms to away fans.

None of these ideas are necessarily the best ones, merely examples. Stanley could (in theory) rebuild the town all by itself regardless of what help the council could offer.

Where does the money come from? Any money put into the Crown Ground could in theory be wasted money. Whinney Hill stand does not need to be built, £660,000 could quite easily be invested into a handful of ideas that are collective nous could be brought to bear upon. Small businesses often don't appear fruitful for a long time as the owner can't invest enough money into it to get it off the ground at the right speed, it has to be done slowly and organicly, reinvesting profits rather than drawing wages. We in thoery could throw money at things to get them going right away and at the desired level of profit.

I admire your optimism and get up and go however I'm not convinced with the business plan. You are right regarding £2.50 for Max Taxis and to be honest if they thought there was money to be made they would be trying it. Af for them paying £2.50 to get a £2.50 fare, they would be no worse not doing it.

I agree the bus service is rubbish after the game to catch the trains around half five and with government subsidies being cut down there buses could be a lot fewer and far between. Trading on the Stanley name probably wouldn't bear much fruit as there seems to be apathy around the town more than anything else.

The problem with pubs and restauraunts is the set up costs and if rented or mortgaged having to make the rent/mortgage first then a profit.

I certainly wouldn't dismiss your ideas out of hand but it would be interesting to see the costings. It is an unfortunate fact of life many small businesses struggle these days and I have had some experience of that with my step daughter who, some years ago wanted to open a small clothes shop in Dumfries. I went through the costings with her looked at potential income and expenditure including various things she hadn't thought of and it just didn't look viable especially since it was announced a Debenhams was about to open nearby.

She decided to give it a go and my wife and I helped when we could but ultimately it wasn't viable and she got out before losing any serious money and the experience did help but that was very small scale. The scale you are looking at would require major investment in terms of what we have and may need to be long term to be viable.

I agree about the new stand, it would probably be a bit of a white elephant most of the time due to location and will the nearby residents be a problem re planning permission?

[deeayess]

Originally Posted by King Kev

Well King Kev, you have obviously read the emails I have exchanged with the MD, you must have listened to the phone calls I have had with the MD. I can assure you I need no lessons of how to bring a club or myself into the modern world. Your patronising ignorant observations are just that. Have you seen our average gates? definitely no where near enough. I may have known the MD for a very short time but I judge people by deeds not just words. If you have not noticed I have not mentioned the MD for best part of a week but I knew somebody would. You suggest I have made my comments for selfish reasons!!!!!!!!! There is a world of difference between principle and selfish. The removal of the disabled concession without any warning or consultation. we then are told we are going cahless at the turnstiles for safety reasons. OK but why no option to purchase tickets on line? shows there is no infrastructure in place yet, we are met with people including the MD selling tickets in a pergola and taking cash. a bit bewildering I think, hardly the professional face we wish to show to the world.
I hope the MD has the nounce to know when he has got it wrong. Why not run his ideas past us in the supporters club at least? we are all supposed to be on the same side. I won't revisit old ground but I will not be eating humble pie. And just for the record I have done my share to help this club stay afloat, I want this club to move on to bigger and better things. I believe Andy Holt is the man with the vision and finance to do this. I don't think the new MD is the man to fulfil this ambition, As for trying to get more supporters through the gates, I suggest that perhaps yourself and the new MD go out in Hyndburn and encourage the Asian population to come as they make up a fair percentage of the community. But spouting the arrogant nonsense based on hear say is more likely to put people off. I am aware that the club needs to be put on a more commercial footing with enough revenue to progress. I think if you were to read my post's you will note where I have complained I have tried to offer a solution. I don't recall reading any posts from you. But whatever you or I think, we can't seem to raise our base attendance above 14/1500 excluding away fans. That is a serious problem that the club and fans need to address. we need to pull together not put fans off. I noticed you singled me out for criticism maybe the truth is getting through. A true supporter is a friend of the club and will speak out if they see things that need attention, keeping quiet helps nobody.
================================================== ================================================== =====================
One doesn’t need to read any exchange you may or may not have had with the MD, as your clear attack on a public forum says more about you than anyone else. One assumes the MD, has been brought in to the club by Andy Holt, the person you show so much support for, somewhat beggars believe. It matters not at this point in time if you or I are correct. Given the history of the club, Andy Holt pays his money and takes his choice (I assume) and in this case, he has installed a MD, I respectfully suggest everybody starts giving him a chance.

Your comment “I hope the MD has the nounce to know when he has got it wrong” you really don’t have an ounce of commercial sense, do you? The only time you will be happy is if every idea is run passed your personally and you rubber stamp it. Get a grip, the world moves at a very fast pace and commercial acumen these days, is just that, think on your feet and make decision quickly to react to situations as they arise and the key is to ensure that when you make those decisions the strategy is without loss. I don’t see any loss to date, apart from your credibility.

Although the key to my post was not lost on you was it? You just couldn’t resist raising the “disabled concessions” hence my comment selfish reasons. You are so transparent.

Don’t bother replying, as I have no intention of further debating with someone who has such a personnel insulin view of the current circumstances and as for humble Pie, you may wish to start licking your lips, as it won’t be too long before it’s been served. Tick Tock…..Tick Tock….

Yep, it's the MD

[cashman]

The transparency on here is KING KEV.

[maccawozzagod]

what we should have, as a club, is a collective acumen that would enable us to establish good and viable business plans for a whole plethora of different businesses. If you couple that with, in theory, enough cash to throw at something to ensure it is self sufficient, then there is no reason why any differnt number of propositions couldn't turn a Red and White profit.

The example of the gym. Not including that it would have benefits for the footballing squad and saving the club some money in the process .... If I was to open a gym I would have the bare bones of finance in order to try to make it succeed. I've no idea how much money would be involved but let's say I put £10k into it. The amount of kit would be pitiful and any marketing would be lost as first timers would come, sneer, and never come again (a bit like they do at The Crown). Sure I'd have friends and family and the occasional loners but it wouldn't cut the mustard. Now if I had say, 3 or 4 business mentors plus £30k it would open in a blaze of positivity and it would be far harder to fail with.

[deeayess]

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

what we should have, as a club, is a collective acumen that would enable us to establish good and viable business plans for a whole plethora of different businesses. If you couple that with, in theory, enough cash to throw at something to ensure it is self sufficient, then there is no reason why any differnt number of propositions couldn't turn a Red and White profit.

The example of the gym. Not including that it would have benefits for the footballing squad and saving the club some money in the process .... If I was to open a gym I would have the bare bones of finance in order to try to make it succeed. I've no idea how much money would be involved but let's say I put £10k into it. The amount of kit would be pitiful and any marketing would be lost as first timers would come, sneer, and never come again (a bit like they do at The Crown). Sure I'd have friends and family and the occasional loners but it wouldn't cut the mustard. Now if I had say, 3 or 4 business mentors plus £30k it would open in a blaze of positivity and it would be far harder to fail with.

I've given you the gym. That sounds like it could be viable from a low cost base and minimal start up, in the grand scheme of things, if you are using the ground as a base.

I'm sure there are many fans with varying skills who could assist the club but that would require a driving force who could unite the fans and that is where it becomes harder but something has to be tried to create a viable source of income long term.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Tom D

Wasn't aware of this mab! Any idea what the percentage is?

5% so about £1 a ticket, and looking at away games and advanced sales it is probably not worth the admin and the staff time selling them (at our end).

This does not apply to Play-off games and of course cups games, normal league programme only.

[baldy]

Why can't the gym be at the stadium? How many people drive to other gyms (Sports Centre) etc. Plus the location of the ground is surrounded by houses already, not like a stadium on an industrial estate like some of the new builds we see!

What if the new stand had catering facilities, something that we've never had before, Again loads of houses in the area that we could attract, People that wouldn't normally go to the games but would go for food midweek and spend £20 is better than no money at all!

I think a bar serving food during the week and on match days would be a great idea but would be all down to pricing, most people in Accrington don't want fine dining so just needs something cheap and cheerful and for the price to be right...2 4 1 deals or Season ticket holders get 10% off during the week etc!