Hello I’m new.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by kozie

Thanks for the info. I have found George Francis Bray age 39 on the 1911 cwnsus at 27 Henry Street, Church, Kirk, Accrington. Along with his wife Ellen Tilet Bray 37 yrs and daughters Kate Elaine, Doris Ellen, Francis Suie and Bertha Annis age 9.

Bertha Annis married James P Morton in 1920. She died Bertha Morton 1975.

George Francis war records in 1915 show his address as 34 Canal St, Church, Kirk, Accrington.

Looks like this could be Bertha!

It would be great to know the date and source where you found the name at the address.

Thanks Very much

I got the info on adresses from the 1914 Burgess Rolls, George Bray is in the AVL-1918 at 34 Canal St. I have no info on Frank
I can't find a George Brown among the many George Browns in my files who matches your man.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by kozie

Thanks for the info. I have found George Francis Bray age 39 on the 1911 cwnsus at 27 Henry Street, Church, Kirk, Accrington. Along with his wife Ellen Tilet Bray 37 yrs and daughters Kate Elaine, Doris Ellen, Francis Suie and Bertha Annis age 9.

Bertha Annis married James P Morton in 1920. She died Bertha Morton 1975.

George Francis war records in 1915 show his address as 34 Canal St, Church, Kirk, Accrington.

Looks like this could be Bertha!

It would be great to know the date and source where you found the name at the address.

Thanks Very much

Just done a check, and their is nothing in the Accrington Chip Wrappers.
As George never served abroad, or was in any local army lists before the AVL-18, ther would be nothing to report about him. He seems to have finished his service in one of the P-O-W camp guard units.

[kozie]

Hi Retlaw

Thank you very much for all your help. I don’t want to confuse matters any more. Basically I was looking for a Bertha at the two addresses I gave. You have helped very much as it seems it was a Bertha Bray.

George Brown was from Great Yarmouth he served in the Royal Irish Fusiliers and was killed 11th April at Arras and is on the wall there as he had no grave.

The postcards I found are from 1917 between him and Bertha who I had never heard of before of the two addresses I gave but no surname. Now with your help it seems you have helped me find out who she was. Thank you very much for your help it is very kind of you. I can send you the postcards if you want to see them.

Kind regards Kozie

[kozie]

Hey Retlaw

The first picture is George the rest is just a few of Berthas postcards front and back. I can post the rest if you want to see them.

Thanks again
Kozie

[kozie]

Hey Retlaw

A few more of the postcards from Bertha. Plus photos and details of George 17821 Royal Irish Fusiliers.

Now looks like a Bertha is Bertha Annis Bray born 1901 daughter of George Francis Bray.
Kind regards Kozie

[kozie]

First uploads I’ve attempted hopefully I have done them correctly and you can see them. The Birthday cake Bertha is talking about must have been George’s 21st Birthday in July 1916? He was killed April 11th at Arras 1917 aged 21 years. From the postcard he sent home looks like he thought he would be coming home on 18th April. Like many others he didn’t.

Bertha looks as if she married a James P Morton in 1920 and died Bertha Morton in 1975 ..... Blackburn I think?

Thanks again Retlaw very kind of you.

I’m not sure what AVL 1918 means but I found the same address 34 Church Street. On George Francis Brays war records.

I have not heard of Burgess roll before but will look it up now so thank you as it is obviously the right Bertha.

Thank you again Kozie mystery solved 👍😁

[kozie]

I just remembered something else I wanted to tell you, My Great Grandmother only had a small house in Great Yarmouth and like many she used to take in visitors. Probably for summer holidays by the beach. Berthas father came from Lincolnshire originally which is not too far from Norfolk. Maybe Bertha had been a visitor and that is how she met George? No one ever mentioned her I had not heard of her until I found the photos and postcards in the loft 100 years later. I suppose we will never know for sure but you never know Bertha may have had her own family who are still about in Lancashire. They could recognise her lovely writing? Stranger things have happened?

Happy New Year to you all in ACCRINGTON ������

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by kozie

First uploads I’ve attempted hopefully I have done them correctly and you can see them. The Birthday cake Bertha is talking about must have been George’s 21st Birthday in July 1916? He was killed April 11th at Arras 1917 aged 21 years. From the postcard he sent home looks like he thought he would be coming home on 18th April. Like many others he didn’t.

Bertha looks as if she married a James P Morton in 1920 and died Bertha Morton in 1975 ..... Blackburn I think?

Thanks again Retlaw very kind of you.

I’m not sure what AVL 1918 means but I found the same address 34 Church Street. On George Francis Brays war records.
I have not heard of Burgess roll before but will look it up now so thank you as it is obviously the right Bertha.

Thank you again Kozie mystery solved 👍😁

Ey Up Kozie.
AVL-18 = Absent Voters List 1918, I indexed all o Greater Accy's some years back, and there are more holes in them than a string vest, those who think they know of these things, tried to make me believe that soldiers filled in forms, to create the AVL. Hu, you would expect a soldier to know his service number, regmt, & where he lived, then what about prisoners of war, some were classed as missng for months, but best of all are the resurections, two Accy lads were killed in 1916, who filled in their forms.
Burgess Rolls are now known as registers of electors
Have'nt looked at the pictures yet, been busy.

[kozie]

Thanks for the info, must have been a mammoth task indexing the absent voters list for Greater Accy. Resurrections made me laugh. Do you think someone was drawing their pensions ��

[Bob Dobson]

Originally Posted by kozie

Thanks for the info, must have been a mammoth task indexing the absent voters list for Greater Accy. Resurrections made me laugh. Do you think someone was drawing their pensions ��

Don't overdo praising Retlaw - he's nowt else to do.

A family called Bray in nearby Oswaldtwistle had an England footballer init. I've forgotten his name - maybe there were two of them.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by kozie

Thanks for the info, must have been a mammoth task indexing the absent voters list for Greater Accy. Resurrections made me laugh. Do you think someone was drawing their pensions ��

Tek no notice of yon Dobbo, and his wise cracks, as for mammoth task, aye eck Kozie, thad were nowt compared to finding all the details of the 12500 and odd men and women of Greater Accrington (Hyndburn) who took the kings shilling in WW1, ave bin at it longer than Dobbo spent plonking his big feet up and down, pretending to be a Copper.

[kozie]

Hi Bob

Thanks for info. I found the two brothers you were talking about.

One called Jackie Bray, played for and Manchester City with Matt Busby when they won the FA Cup. Plus he was an England player. Then a coach for Watford. Then he had a sports shop.

His brother George Bray played for Burnley. I think he played an FA cup too can’t remember what I just read exactly either against Stoke or Charlton Athletic. Not sure if they won. Anyway he played, trained and was a kit man till 1992!

They were both born in Oswaldtwistle.

Not sure if they were related but very interesting all the same.

[Bob Dobson]

Accrington Library or Blackburn Library may have a report on the death of these lads, and a list of those attending the funerals - there may be names that you recognise. Accrington will check the Accrington Observer for you, Blackburn will check the Lancashire Evening Telegraph

[email protected] Google the Blackburn library's address

There may be Brays still in Ossie. I'll check the phone book and let you know. I suggest asking the Hyndburn Chat Facebook page.There's an Ossie one too

[Bob Dobson]

There are two in Church, next door to Ossie - check the BT phone book for Bray in BB5 and give hem a ring.