[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

My problem with capital punishment is 3 fold.

First if you execute the wrong person how do you say "oops sorry"? Also look at the case of Derek Bentley, you cannot control a judge who loves to impose the most severe penalty.

Second capital punishment is nothing short of state sanctioned murder. If murder is against the law (and it should be) then how with a clear moral conscience can the public and the government sanction the murder of a criminal, no matter how sick or depraved he/she is, you are then pandering to the whims of vengeance rather than justice. Yes there has to be a deterrent and life imprisonment should mean that, when imposed.

Third, where is the deterrent if they have already killed to prevent them killing again and again, the old saying "may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" somes it up well.

Also as an aside apart from my moral objections, why is the murder rate so high in the US if capital punishment is such a wonderful deterrent?

I don’t have a problem with capital punishment for premeditated murder, regardless who the victim is. You take a life you forfeit your own. But with just one caveat. The sentence is not carried out until a suitable period of time after the sentence is passed. This is to give the defence an opportunity to bring forward new evidence and to take advantage of any new developments in forensic science. What is a suitable period of time? I would suggest a minimum of five years.

The Derek Bentley case is always brought up in such discussions, usually by people who weren’t even alive at the time or even bothered to do any research. Why not bring up the case of Ruth Ellis? http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/ruth.html

Bentley 19 and Craig 16 carrying a revolver broke into a warehouse on 2nd November 1952 with intent to rob. The result was that Craig shot and wounded one policeman and killed another. There is no dispute about those facts.

Bentley was an accessory to a crime that resulted in murder. Even though he didn’t actually pull the trigger, in the eyes of the law of the day he was just as guilty as the Craig who did. The law at the time decreed that murder was punishable by hanging.

Craig, being under the age of 18, could not be sentenced to hang so his sentence was to be detained at Her Majesty’s pleasure. Bentley who was over 18 was sentenced to hang and the sentence was duly carried out in accordance with the law of the day.

The fact that Bentley was poorly represented by his defence council is not a fault of the law.

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/derek_bentley.htm

Murder – according to the Oxford English Dictionary:
• noun 1 the unlawful premeditated killing of one person by another.
• verb 1 kill unlawfully and with premeditation.

In days gone by the state decreed that a convicted murderer would be hung. Thus making the action lawful. Thus the state could not be accused of murder only lawful killing. Whether the state should have that power is open to another debate but in the 1950’s it was the will of the people.

The “I may as well get hung for a sheep as for a lamb” argument applies to a very tiny majority of people – the hardened criminals who care nothing for others.

A question to all.

Why do you not commit murder, robbery, burglary, mugging, assault and battery, fraud etc?

Is it because it is against the law?

Or is it because of the fear of getting caught and punished?

I suspect that most people will reply both but with more emphases on the latter.

Many motorists break the laws on speed limits, secure in the knowledge that the chances of being caught are slim. I doubt if any of those same motorists would commit a ‘serious’ crime because they know that the chances of getting caught are high.

So in the main I would suggest that the majority of people do not go around committing crimes because of the fear of being caught and punished. Or in other words being caught and punished IS A DETERRENT. Thus the certainty of capital punishment if caught is a deterrent, except for a few who have scant regard for the law or other people.

There would be no law breaking IF it was CERTAIN that all law breakers would be caught and punished.