Why is Church forgotten?
 

Greetings,

I'm just trying to wrap my head around why Church is always forgotten about. First of all, they have all this mullarky about a name change and the coat-of-arms for Church is conveniently "not ready in time" (according to the Editor of The Observer). Search for "Accrington" on Google and look at the description of The Observer's website, I (directly) quote: "All the latest news for Accrington, Great Harwood, Rishton, Altham, Clayton le Moors, Huncoat, Baxenden and Oswaldtwistle, England". Oh yeah, every local place is listed there, even bloody Altham (which is less significant than Church in my opinion) but Church, the oldest place, is missing. This seems to reverberate everywhere I go, Church is a no-man's land to everyone but the people who have to live here and try and make a life for themselves in what has become a ghost town.

It kind of ****es me off to think that us Church dwellers are always forgotten about. Talking to my Grandmother I hear that Church used to be a town in it's own right, we had the "Church District Council", all the shops and entertainment that we could possibly need here and plenty of places for people to get employment. Then they bulldozed it all down. I'm too young to know exactly why Church was basically destroyed, but it does seem slightly upsetting to me that our heritage and the history of the people that lived here is so evasive and there is nothing left that is old (save Church kirk). My best guess (and maybe somebody old enough to remember can enlighten me with the truth) is that the government thought it would be best to take all the local district councils, merge them into one big council and govern them as one. I would guess this was to save money. I think it's a load of crap to be quite frank and now the result of this, Hyndburn, is seen to be a bad place to live. Good, I'm glad something backfired on you because you deserve everything you get. Call it karma or whatever you like, but my belief is that if you destroy something good and forget about it, it will come back and bite you in the arse.

Now I love this place, but it really is a sham compared to what it used to be like. We have nothing here in Church worth having, we have a few family businesses and I'm surprised that they can still make a living, good luck to them. We have hardly anywhere for the kids to play or anything for the youths to do and we wonder why they turn out to be devil children and smash up peoples' property; give them something to do. Look at the "park" on behind the Queen's Road West/Meadoway estate as an example of this, what is it? It is a dumping ground for builders employed by the council. That's HBC's ethos for you; tear down a place were kids can hang about and play and basically build a tip that is of no use to the general public whatsoever. It really angers me that they treat Church like this then have the nerve to forget about it and hope that we'll all just conform and follow suit.

I, for one, will not forget about Church. Accrington is the main attraction and people all over the world remember it, let's hope that people will start treating Church with the respect it deserves, at least locally. If you think Church is a ****hole please consider what I've only touched the surface of; the fact that Church was destroyed by local people and what was once a good place to live has fallen victim of the people who thought they could make a better place (and failed miserably). In my world I'd reverse everything that has befallen Church and it would still have it's own district council; HBC could shove every proposal they have where the sun definitely doesn't shine. This would be THE place to live.

Regards,

John

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Infinitus .......good post , karma on its way , as to the reasons for the demise of Church the only reason I can offer is that Church was primarily a blue collar/working class town with generally poor housing stock, no middle/upper class areas, apart from the Dill Hall Lane area which would best be described as a lower middle/skilled working class area, unlike the other Urban Disticts which amalgamated with Accrington to form Hyndburn. Any employment I remember in Church from the mid 60s was Billy Blyths chemical works , Primrose mill and Rothwells , both on Bridge st.
Also dont remember any secondary education facilities in Church ,most of the youngsters went to Rhyddings in Ossy, or the Boys Grammer school on Blackburn rd , the Girls (if any qualified) ;)to the High school off Whalley rd.

hope you get lots of answers to your post

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Please tell me if i am wrong but i would have thought the decline of Church started when the canal and coke ovens fell into disuse.
walking round the area with Tealeaf there is a lot of old industrial buildings located on the canal and i looks like it was a thriving area back then.
but not comming from this area i am not sure:)
it would be interesting to know more though so if anyone know's or can help please post

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

interesting post infinitus,lived in church early 70s- 80, and was an ok place then,things had vanished from late 50s -early 60s,but the caracter was there,no doubt,was a good little area to live then, i think you got it in one sadly- its been FORGOTTEN.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Can't help with the coke ovens, but was it not known at one time as 'Church and Oswaltdtwistle' ?

Don't think is being physically neglected at the moment though, with the development on Henry Street and around the lights, and other plans in the offing.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

The death knell for Church was the motorway. I detailed this in another thread and repeat it here :-

"I have lived in Church 3 times
1st at the top of Dill Hall -1961 to 1966
2nd half way down Dill hall -1985 to 1991
3rd on Barnes St - 1991 to 2002

Dill Hall is not considered to part of Church by Church residents, who live in that group of streets hemmed in by the canal, Henry St and Blackburn Rd.
The situation in those streets began to deteriorate when Dunkenhalgh Way opened so that Henry St was choked with traffic and at rush hour there was no way of getting in and out of those streets by the only 2 ways - Barnes St and Church Lane. Traffic noise escalated, litter increased -people wanted out, but not many wanted to buy - property developers bought - bad tenants moved in = gradual deterioration to what it is today.
I feel sad about it too -was Ok in 1991 -friendly folk and all that - but by 2002 was thankful to leave"

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Church born and proud of the fact, nice post. I loved Church back then and I always take the opportunity to drive round when I'm over, it would be nice if people would reinvest in the locality. I notice that the Commercial and the Stag are decaying fast.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Not sure how old this is Willow:

Church Oswaldtwistle Gateway

2006 and certainly on the move I think.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Well it comes under the Hyndburn umbrella so it must be sometime in the last 30 years or so.

They can't even be bothered with an 'and' in there! :rolleyes:

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Well, whatever, but plans on the mat at the moment, so do not think Church is being neglected at all .. have noticed big changes there in the last 12 months.

Still haven't told me where that stone thing is at the bottom of Market Street :confused:

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Will take another look tomorrow .. is it on the Ernest St. Baptist side then ?

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Coke ovens........late forties early fifties

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

That's before my time :D

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

[quote=Infinitus;436548]Greetings,

The Observer's website, I (directly) quote: "All the latest news for Accrington, Great Harwood, Rishton, Altham, Clayton le Moors, Huncoat, Baxenden and Oswaldtwistle, England". Oh yeah, every local place is listed there, even bloody Altham (which is less significant than Church in my opinion) but Church, the oldest place, is missing. [quote]

In the observer we are put with oswaldtwisle for local news, there is never anything to do with church in there unless its bad news nothing ever good!!!:mad::mad: I have lived in church all my life which is 30yrs i remember all the shops on church street we used to have a police station also two butchers and plenty of other things plus stockleys sweet factory!!! i agree with another quote people selling houses and renting them out to numptys that give church the bad name. Landlords need to start vetting people before they put them into houses:mad: I call church with the best of them but i,m entitled to when i live here, but i don,t think i could live anywhere else:) People need to stand up for what they believe in , we need to start making a stand for church so no one ever forgets us and for the right reasons that it is a great place to live:)


great thread:):):)

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

it was a good place to go to at one time but the council let it get so run down there is nothing down that place now but it could be made in to a good place if the council would spend some money down there and put life back in to part...lets see what happen,s?

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

First and foremost, I'd like to thank everyone that has contributed to this thread, it's made a very interesting read. :D

There are some very good suggestions for the "demise" of Church and they probably all contributed to making it the place it is today. I thought the building of the motorway was particularly interesting. If I was to guess I'd have said that it would have been beneficial to Church to be linked with (eventually) the whole of Lancashire, but it seems this wasn't the case. Even the building of the Leeds and Liverpool canal was probably more beneficial if you look at why it was used at the time it was built. Although it doesn't really offer anything other than a walk for ramblers in today's world. I still think whatever caused all this happened way back though and probably festered for a few decades.

The fact that this is and was a working class area strikes me as probably the most distinctive reason I can fathom being a major factor in all of this. I've been doing some more digging myself and talking to the older generation it seems there were 2 areas of employment which kept most of the population of Church (and other local districts) afloat; these are obviously the cotton industry and the mining industry. I don't know exactly when the cotton mills were all closed down, but I do know it has had a knock on effect to the town/village and Lancashire. Seeing all of our cotton products are imported from China these days this will never happen again and our local heritage has probably disappeared forever. I don't really need to go into the mining thing, we all know what Maggie Thatcher did; it seems she took the only major industry we had left after the mills and left us with nothing. Now if you want to pay the bills it seems you're going to have to travel a lot further than before. Not really a problem with cars, but there's not really any money being injected into this area, well not that I can see. At least none that I can see will have a positive, long-lasting effect on Church. To me it looks like Accrington is "the beloved" and is the place being invested in. It's also local businesses that used to inject money back into the community and it seems that express gifts is the only place that offers mass employment around these parts. I think, due to health reasons, it's probably better that the mines are no longer, but from the other perspective there are no places that offer the amount of jobs that the mines did. I can't really see a way that Church can be what it once was and if the council/government thinks the same way, it's no wonder we've been forgotten. This is not really a convenient excuse considering they are the ones who are supposed to resolve problems and to invest locally, in housing, businesses and people. This being said, it seems most of Hyndburn was doomed to failure from the start and it seems Church has been hit really hard by this, my guess is it's probably hit other districts just as bad. It's no surprise the council wants to change the name of Hyndburn considering its legacy.

Still, it's not all bad, we still have some decent people around these parts who have to endure the ones who are making this place a bad place to live. We have a lot of schools around here being invested in. That's a start. Hopefully, they'll do a good job in Accy town center. I still can't help but think; I wish Church was still a town in it's own right.

By the way, I've lived here all my life too, only 22 years, but long enough to see how much it's gone downhill. I dread to think how much it's gone downhill since even further back; from the 1930s or even earlier. It makes me wonder, what I'm trying to do is find out these things from the people who know, whilst they're still around to tell the story, otherwise it will be forgotten. :(

John

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

I think one thing to realize is that there is nowhere in Church for the "nobs" to live , other areas of Hyndburn have 'better' class areas , ie the Esplanade in Rishton, Park Lane area in Gt. Harwood , New Lane in Ossy, up Manchester rd. in Accy , etc . probably the only " big" house in Church I can think of is the house overlooking Gatty park,

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

That big dressed stone house in Gatty Park was divided into rented out flats ages ago. I knew the barmaid at the Cross Guns in the 1980s lived there (she said it was haunted)
PS Fielding Lane is posher than New Lane(Cockers spoiled that area-but it is now shut down-so might get better)

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

if shes who i think it is margaret that was bacardi n coke talking lol, know a couple of guys who live there n will ask em, but theve never mentioned it.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Marge (scottish girl who worked at Lightfoots ar one time)- went to her wedding do at Church Con club - not seen her since
PS she was scottish - curly hair and big glasses

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

I am from out of the area, but I am working on renovating a property in Church, the area inside the Blackburn rd,Henry Street and canal triangle. And I think some of the posters want to be a bit more positive, from what I can see, the propertys are well built , there is a good community spirit and most of the people speak English.
I work in most of the locals towns and there is a lot lot worse and I honestly cannot say that there is much better. ok so there are no big houses where the nobs live! so what. so there is no one looking down there nose at you because they have a bigger house than you.
I work for landlords and the ones I know do not want to rent out to problem tenants, whats the point! If you know of any potential good tenants that want a nice 2 or 3 bed home in the area let me know and I will pass there details on.
One thing I have noticed is that some people look on the back alleys as a dumping ground, even when we are renovating houses we do not put any rubbish in thes public areas.
So come on, dont expect everything to be done for you, do it yourself. if its only picking up a bit of litter or puting some plants and baskets out, it all makes a difference.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Eyesore between Church st and York street.
Whats with this waste land, I believe its been like this for over 12 years! when I was a kid it would have had goal posts put on it.


just do it!

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

New Lane, you would have to pay me to live on New Lane. Ever since the M65 completion it has become one of the busiest roads in Ossy with cars and HGV's whizzing up and down all day and night.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

na i wouldn't like to live up there either neil too busy


i lived in church as a youngster have some great memories of living there .....people were great if mum wasn't in there was always an "aunty" there for you everyone knew everyone it was wonderful to grow up & not be afraid of anyone because you knew them all .

i used to love bonfire nights .the weeks before collecting wood & furniture .only to be nicked by them off nelson square lot..............we used to get most of it back he he .

nelson square is were hyndburn baths are now .

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

It's where the Town Hall or Council Offices used to be. I was not born and bred in Church but I have lived there 1962-66 when Church was a thriving place Not awfully good houses but clean and tidy ones. Plenty of shops banks , you name it Church had it. If you lived in Church you needn't travel to Accy or Blackburn Church had the lot. What's it got now.? Nothing, only one or two shops, a sports centre and...............Hyndburn YOU have let the town and it's residents down.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

NEW LANE for the nobs!!! I wouldn't live up New Lane rent free. P. B. must think he's a nob... Well a nob head maybe.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

[quote=jimlin;438933] ok so there are no big houses where the nobs live! so what. so there is no one looking down there nose at you because they have a bigger house than you. ]

thats a bit of a myopic view of things isnt it, surely communities are better when all social groups are included and not into ghettos , either rich or poor

[I work for landlords and the ones I know do not want to rent out to problem tenants, whats the point! If you know of any potential good tenants that want a nice 2 or 3 bed home in the area let me know and I will pass there details on.
quote]

So presumably this/these 'distressed' houses you are renovating are supplying an investment income for people who don't live in the immediate local area and as such are depriving local young couples of having the chance to own their first starter home :confused:

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

lived in church, all my life, still do. been in same house for nearly thirty years and boy have i seen some changes. when i was young church was a thriving community. it had every shop you could imagine. there was also the council offices, across from the commercial, two banks, chemist, dry cleaners, three chippies, fish shop etc could go on and on. plenty of businessess, including the shoddy (cotton mill ) top of grimshaw street which was then called duckworth street. we used to live across the road from it and can still recall the sights and sounds of the place. brings back many happy memories. has kids we would play with the shuttles, cones etc. there was rothwells, masterbar, blythes, woodyard, naylors, emerson and renwick, the foundry etc. unfortunately over the years many have closed and the others have reduced there workforce, which then had a knock on effect of people moving away to find work. also there was big areas of terraced streets that was demolished and as per usual left has empty spaces, which over the years become dumping grounds . there was three schools hyndburn park, church kirk lovely school, crying shame when that was pulled down, and earnest street. our lovely st james church, antely methodist and earnest st baptist church etc. luckily we still have our churches. i don,t include the beautiful church that was pulled down - sacred heart because its on the accrington side of church if you know what i mean. there was a police station and court, before it was made into a car show room, and many lively pubs and clubs. it is such a shame that its now almost a forgotton community. there is lots of scope for church it just needs marketing properly to the business world. there are several smaller businessess on bridge street which are helping with job prospects, but there is plenty more workable alternatives. bring back more retail shops etc in the open lands that are used as garbage grot spots. maybe then church people will pull together and get their pride back in this little hamlet. you would think a big marketing ploy would be the close proximity of ossie mills, why can,t we have something similar on say the spare land on church street where the school once stood, bring back enterprise, people will want to be close to thier employment, attract good community members and the friendly honest neighbours of yesteryear. i for one never have taken the name as hyndburn all my correspondence etc is in church, bring it back were it rightly belongs.:Banane37:

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

My Auntie lived in Church for many many years and i have a lot of happy memories from that time. Living in Wales now i dont so much, but whenever i do return i am amazed how much the place has changed.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

i well remember the magistates court
it was there it was recomnded my next
school be approved
way back in the late 50s

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

i lived in church a few years ago and hardly any body knew where i was on about

they would say were do u live i would say church and they would go you live in a church

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

That happened to me when i came to live in church from ibiza, when my mum asked me where i was living i told her in church and she says if you needed the money you could off told me i could off bought you a plane ticket back home lol poor soulhttp://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...cons/icon6.gif

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

we cant make church look nice, anyone puts out hanging baskets or plants a new garden or anything i can guarantee you that the day after it will be all over the road, the children around church have no respect for the community its them thats wrecking the place, not all children just a select few, when they changed the bottom park and made it into a beautiful garden it lasted two days before the trees were pulled out and the flowers were all over the streets.
The top park next door to the library was all done up with brand new equipment and a basketball court, so there is no excuse for the children to say theres nothing for them, instead they prefer to smoke and drink on the corners and wreck the area they live in. people do try but thers no point in making a place better if its just going to be vandalised the day after! its a shame really but until the lil buggers stop then church will just have to be like it is!

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

I agree with carla, the place gets wreck as soon as someone does anythin nice to it.
I lived in canal st in church and i remember when they put the new floor for the kids so they woudnt hurts themselves if the fell, i think it lasted a week before some of the kids started pulling off pieces of it.
I like church cuz its nice and quite but it has changed since i came in 2004 and not for better just for worsehttp://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/i...cons/icon9.gif

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

I was brought up in the Church Area and as far as I can see the heart has long gone because of the new roads and loss of industry. Hyndburn Road was never like it is now when I was growing up on Riding Barn Street but I am afraid that is progress(or so they say). I would have the old Church back anytime, but that isn't going to happen:(

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

I do agree about vandalism. When I was a teen, which is only a few years ago, we used to drink and what have you, but vandalise, no. We knew we had to live here. You only have to look at the recent article about Dill Hall Cemetary to realise the lack of respect this new generation has. I think it's awful that they don't even have enough respect to keep out of the cemetary, never mind break headstones. It's really saddening, my Grandad, Great Uncle and Great Grandma are all buried there and several family friends are too. I'd be so upset I'd probably be forced to go and take the law into my own hands if anything happened to their gravestones. I do feel for the families that have been affected by this. Considering this is just "the tip of the iceberg", I don't really have anything to believe in anymore. It seems odd that a 22 year old would respect the over 40s moreso than his peers, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out why. When I was a child, it was places like Within Grove that people used to look down upon, now it seems several places in Church are worse off nowadays. On talking to a few people I hear the Meadoway estate used to be a place where people queued up to live, because it was one of the nicest, freshest new estates to be built. Now it's just an estate full of drunken, abusive, yobs, with broken glass and dogdirt all over the place. Sounds cliche, but I assure you it's true. It's a shame really.

I say parents need to discipline their kids, if I was out of hand I'd get a hiding and grounding. Do I hate my parents for it? Of course not, I'm glad that I was disciplined and taught to respect people and people's property. I really do think it's the parents faults, if they cannot teach their kids to be decent people then it's only going to get worse. Who else are we to blame? Ourselves? It's a national epidemic that only parents can solve. I know how I'll bring up my kids, if I ever have them. It's just a shame that a lot of people have no control over themselves, never mind their kids...:mad:

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You are right Meadoway was a nice area when I lived in Church, I lived just further down on Lincoln Court. How refreshing to hear a young person speaking with so much respect, your parents should be proud of you(and I have no doubt they are). My dad is buried up there and so help me if any scumbag damages his grave there will be six of us after their guts. I really enjoyed reading your comments, wish there were more like you.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

i agree wholeheartedly with you infinitus , i lived in church till i got married & it was a great place to be very very friendly people, real sense of community & i had great friends their, who have moved away who still call church home .......fond memories.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

[quote=steeljack;453758]I wouldnt call it a ghetto, and if young couples can rent a home rather than not having one, whats the problem? its still their home.

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Church was Ok till Joseph Arnolds built that massive warehouse and everything round it went dark :rolleyes:
Mez - Nelson square lot pinched it, wasn't me








we used to set fire to it :D

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

That stone across from the commercial hotel,was put there to commemorate the old
Church Urban District Council Offices

Re: Why is Church forgotten?
 

Ive lived in Church All my Life (Sadly), i am 18 and the reason of which church is now forgotten is because its a degrading place to live with nothing 2 offer. Sure it was once a great place to live, my mother says that all the time, when i say i cant wait to get out of here ! : )
However look at church now ! 4 Pubs 2 shops one of which should totally be closed down with what they sell over the counter, a libaray which was closed down to be turned into some crap that helps women with domestic violence (Thanks for closing the only place we could truely chill) CRAP COUNCIL !!
Church now is full of Drunks, People with no respect for the elders and the community. Over the past YEAR i know of; 1 Drug Raid - 4 House Robberies - Several Attacks of which i know the attackers ! And people who are always in and out of jail. THATS WHY CHURCH IS FORGOTTEN ITS FULL OF PEOPLE WITH NO JOBS AND TAKE DRUGS AND ARE VIOLENT. The only thing church had going for it is the Sports Centre, and still thats sucks.
Also if this isnt bad enough, i was out 2night drinking with some mates, around a bombfire (Were the sweet factory was and there was like 11-12 years drinking and mouthing off). Church Sucks - I Honestly think that out of all 17-19 years olds in church myself and my friends are the only ones to actually go to college and come of with Btecs and Degrees.
The Council needs to get up off their ass and sort it out !