the library v. the internet
 

Oh deary me. Am putting this topic here in History, its sad, really sad.

Have just been informed that "according to the powers that be", people don't use reference books any more and should all be using the Internet. Therefore nearly all the ref books are to go and in most libraries in Lancs they already have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (what have they done with them I would like to know?). The lass in Accrington Library (upstairs) is mounting a one woman campaign and has tried to dig her heels in. They are actually being allowed to keep some stuff and the lady is putting as much as possible into local studies. Just imagine if they decided to do that at some point in the future - destroy the local history books too!

Was this common knowledge? I certainly hadnt heard a whisper! Worrying, very worrying!

Atarah

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I have a bookcase full of non fiction reference books which I no longer read.
They are mainly ancient history and have been rendered unreliable by archeology done since they were published.
The internet provides a more up to date source of info on any topic,
so it is reasonable for libraries to withdraw books which give antiquated info.
Local history is not widely available on the web (yet) so you friend is right to try to preseve that.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I was there the day they were clearing some of the shelves. I was informed that as more and more stuff came on line on the internet, the books were'nt needed.

I stuck my oar in and questioned the need to get rid of the books, as they had already been purchased, what was wrong in keeping them. I can already see the long term reasoning behind all this, the powers that be will say no one comes in to borrow books any more, why do we need to keep the place open.
Accrington's reference Library & Local studies is already undermanned.

To me its a shame books are being destroyed, most of the so called crap on the internet, has so many variations. Every idiot wants to swank, "I have a web site", even if the stuff has never been authenticated, and contains a lot of misinformation.
Then other idiots will pass on this misinformation as gospel.

Retlaw.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

well personally i prefer a book, you cant take your pc to bed with you

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I prefer a book too, Flashy.......but I do know someone who does take her pc to bed. She gets into bed with laptop and a few stellas and facebooks the evening away. :)

On the subject of these books in the library......it's a shame that they could be destroyed. Couldn't one of our local historians be allowed to keep some of them? :confused:

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Books contain misinformation too.
History is notorious for having bias in favour of the victor/conquerer,
A book shows only one person's view, whereas several opinions are easily accessible on the web

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I prefer a book too, especially if it is something that takes concentration to digest.
I don't seem to have the same concentration to read vast tracts of information on the internet.....and if it is something that I really want to learn, then I print it off and read it in the conventional way.

I am very sad that the reference books are being disposed of.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Having said what I have here, I must confess that I have bought 2 reference books in the past month:o
..but they have info that isn't on line
...and I don't think any library would stock them

Re: the library v. the internet
 

:eek: "snigger"..:).. don't get service like that at my local library:D

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Well it was in the Obs that Ossy library is to close for six weeks for refurbishment, wonder if the reference section will disappear there too

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I love the internet, so long as you weed out the iffy sites that seem to make it up as they go along.

Reading online however cannot replace the feel or smell of a good book, whether lying back in bed for an hour before sleeping, sitting in your favourite arm chair, or sunning yourself on a park bench only a book can really speak to you in such a way that has you totally engrossed, long may the hard copy reign, the internet just can't beat it!

:dork:

Re: the library v. the internet
 

prefer books mostly, internet is great but a book don't crash.:rolleyes:

Re: the library v. the internet
 

No but they burn:D

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I tried once to read a novel on my computer but for some reason it's near impossible - also, when I write a report, I need to print it out to properly review it. Can't understand why that is but somehow info on the computer doesn't quite sink in.

Plus, as has already been mentioned on here recently, some people who do research publish it with deliberate mistakes which means that anyone who inadvertantly copies the information and accepts it as the truth, has absolutely no idea how accurate it is.

I love my computer - for work and for play - but for leisure and research you can't beat books.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

a lot of jobs in the library are being retitled, and dont need the qualifications that some of them have ... they are having a review across the whole library services ... which has been going on for some time .. and ive known about this for a long time .. and certain librarians have had to reapply for their jobs .. not knowing if they would get it back again ...

Re: the library v. the internet
 

[quote=Gayle;705594]I tried once to read a novel on my computer but for some reason it's near impossible - also, when I write a report, I need to print it out to properly review it. Can't understand why that is but somehow info on the computer doesn't quite sink in.

Gayle, I am glad that there is someone like me......can't take in the info unless it is in my hand to read.......hopeless at analysing and digesting stuff from the screen.
I thought it was just my ageing grey cells, but feel reassured by your post.


And Less you are spot on about books.......I can't be transported by stuff I read on the screen....well, not like the stuff in a book anyway.
Reading has always been one of my chief pleasures.....far better than TV.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Can you not E-mail your concerns to L.C.C. Atarah or one of the councillors ?
Maybe the lady in the library is doing this already though ?

I feel as others .. difficult to concentrate on internet information ... not that I do much studying these days, but would like to think that if there were something I wished to know could browse along the shelves in the library .. much more interesting.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

People aren't 'swanking' when they have a website - they're trying to share knowledge and educate people with a wider audience.

You've already admitted that you include incorrect information in things that you publish so you can't complain when people believe information that you've put out there to be correct. If you don't want people to perpetuate misinformation then give them the correct information.

My two children are 7 and 9 - their teachers often give them homework and suggest that they research it on the internet as well as at the library. They are not idiots but they will believe information if it is given to them as fact!!!!

Re: the library v. the internet
 

[quote=Gayle;705634]People aren't 'swanking' when they have a website - they're trying to share knowledge and educate people with a wider audience.
---------------------
CRAP. When you've looked at different websites all covering the same subject, you can see they are trying to outdo each other, and information is varied.

You've already admitted that you include incorrect information in things that you publish so you can't complain when people believe information that you've put out there to be correct. If you don't want people to perpetuate misinformation then give them the correct information.
-----------
That was done for a specific reason, don't take things out of context. I have a picture of A Coy Accrington Pals, on display at Accrington Library, I put their names on their chests, one of them is a deliberate mistake. I told the library staff at the time one of them is wrong, even they don't know which one it is. It was done PURPOSELY.
His real name is a microdot on his collar.
Retlaw.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Perhaps they're all trying to protect their research by putting false information in.

Perhaps they want their site to look good.

If everyone worked together then only the correct information would be out there for future generations.

The stuff at the library - what's going to happen when you pop your clogs and the lady at the library moves to another job? You've put something out there - whether it's just a photo or text - that's incorrect and in future years no one will know that and so will believe it on face value.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Crap again.
I have other photographs with the correct info on it.

Plus he is correctly named on another display, thats on show elsewhere.
Any way, who are you to tell me what to do with my research, whats mines me own, and I can do with it as I please. If you don't like it, lump it.

When I pop my clogs my daughters have strict instruction what happens to my work, and all the pictures I have collected.

Retlaw.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your research. I'm just pointing out that I find it sad that someone could put so much work in and then deliberatly falsify it so that other people get it wrong.

As it happens, I have to do some research at the moment on the Coppice because it's the 100th anniversary this year of the handing over from the Peel family. I will go to the library and I will try to find out as much as possible - but I'm not an expert so if the information that I find out is then put onto display boards and it turns out to be wrong then we'll all know why it's wrong won't we?

Because experts don't want to help the rest of us find out the truth. So when the display boards are put up, please feel free to mock and call me an idiot for believing information that has been put together by experts.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Barnyard Confetti, you don't make sense, If what you call experts did'nt want you to know, they would'nt have bothered to write it in the first place.

Retlaw.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

This sounds like an interesting topic. If anyone is interested in chatting to our newsdesk about it feel free to give us a ring on 01254 298 267 and ask to speak to the Hyndburn reporters.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I hope they haven't got rid of the council minutes. I really need them. They're definitely not online for the older editions..

I think it's a shame. As others have said, it's much easier to read a book than it is to read a screen, and much better on the eyes I imagine!

At our University I think we have about 2 million books. They are putting some of them in electronic format, which is very useful when the book has already been taken out, as it often is when you have 200 people wanting a book of which they have one copy! Can never replace the real thing though.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I think that is awful. I don't know what name you've used, it could be Joe Bloggs, guess we'll never know the real person at all.

But what if someone called Fred Bloggs, looking for a relative, is told by someone that there is a photo of A Coy Accrington Pals and a certain Joe Bloggs is there. Your 'misinformation' could send poor Fred off to do lots of meaningless research, totally oblivious of any other picture and obviously without success , trying to find out more info on someone whom he believes could be his great grandfather. He'd be wasting his time because of you.

Similarly, because of YOUR purposeful error, there may be a relative of the man mis-named who will never see what he actually looked like.

How would you feel??

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Similarly, because of YOUR purposeful error, there may be a relative of the man mis-named who will never see what he actually looked like.

How would you feel??[/quote]

In 1983 there were still six of the original Accrington Pals still alive living in the area. Harry kay, George Pollard, Ernie Culley, Russell Bradshaw, Stan Bewsher and James Snailham. They were shown an enlargement of the photograph in question and even they could only name a few on the picture.

When the Pals came marching into Accrington on August 1st 1915, a lot of people did'nt recognised them as the men who left Accrington on February 23.

After all these years and the pubilicity William Turner gave to the Accrington Pals, his lectures, school visits and our displays on the Pals aniversaries. I don't think any one is going to be looking for Joe Bloggs.

When all said and done I did'nt need to name those men on the picture, till I put their names on very few were of them were known.

And in reply to another on this site who took umbrage at my saying people want to swank about their web sites and others being ripped off, well is does HAPPEN, I've been searching on genealogy web sites for some of my soldiers, and the number of people who complain about others ripping off their family trees to add to their own, just to impress others with the biggest family tree.

That is also the reason why very few parish registers are available for viewing, people were caught actually altering entries in parish registers, luckily there are the Bishops transcripts, which the public could never get their hands on.

Retlaw.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

its a disgrace the library was donated to the people of accrington as a place were the working classes could self improve. Who the hell gave these idiots the right to turn our educational facilities into an internet cafe? and where are the howls of protests from our "elected" representives...as quiet now as they were when Church library was quietly disposed of...what chance Oswaldtwistle library re-opening in any reconisable form..very little I suspect

Re: the library v. the internet
 

There have been inaccuracies all the way while we have been researching our family and there may still be some incorrect facts and relationship ties but we will never know if there are only a limited number of research sources. In my opinion, inaccuracies are better off corrected rather than introduced. I think that to destroy detailed and painstaking research is foolish but an author is entitled to do whatever he wants with his creations.

A branch of my family tree comes to dead stop in 1603 because someone in history decided that certain pages of a marriage register should be removed.

We will never know who this person was and we will never know why they removed the pages. Perhaps to cover up an embarrassing episode? What future generations of our family will wonder about, is what happened but we will never know.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Have you tried to see if he Bishops Transcripts still exist. Vicars were obliged to make a 2nd record of all the events during the year, and send them to the Bishop of whatever Diocese he belonged to.
Retlaw

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I was a librarian in the Ossy, Church, Gt. Harwood and Rishton libraries back in the '60's when they were well-stocked. Now, Accrington library has a pathetic excuse for a Childrens' section, and I've heard that Ossy childrens' library is moving into the smaller reference/reading room - to make more space for computers. I'm sure that children have access to computers at home and school. Andrew Carnegie who established Ossy library and many others must be spinning in his grave!

Re: the library v. the internet
 

This review of the library services has been going on for the last couple of years. There are librarians who have had to reapply for their jobs and there are others who have left the library service altogether.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I know people are bemoaning the changes to the ossy library but at least we're keeping a library. Lots of others were shut not that long ago. So ours might have a bigger internet room than before but at least it's still there.

Re: the library v. the internet
 

so is it ok to run em down, regarding "Books" so long as they remain open? I Think Not.:(

Re: the library v. the internet
 

I know what you're saying, Gayle and I am very greatful for our library.

I use it lots.

I appreciate that we have to move with the times but I still think the priority of a library should be books.......never mind making the space for books smaller and smaller to make way for computers.

I think there was an adequate number of computers before. We don't need more.

I'll reserve judgement on Ossy library until it re-opens but I will be disappointed if the children's section is smaller and the computer area bigger. :(

It's common knowledge that children are not reading anywhere near as much as they used to but it is getting harder and harder for them to do so when books are not promoted and play second fiddle to computers. :(

Re: the library v. the internet
 

Heard this morning that the bulk part of what is now the reference library will become the main area for Local History (LH). There is apparently loads and loads of new stuff in storage which will be coming in to LH section once catalogued. This change has come about because the current LH section is in urgent need of renovation and it was thought that things could become damaged if left there any longer.
In brief. There will still be a downscaled reference section but a larger LH section with the current LH room being closed.

What would you lose if there had to be a choice??

Re: the library v. the internet
 

you would lose the choice phil, whilst i love local history, i would imagine the majority of library users don't. reference therefore i feel should have the greater priority. IMHO:)