Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Hi, I was hoping someone out there might be able to hear my plea and help me on my search for information or photos on the old Shoulder of Mutton Pub, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth. I'm trying to do this research on the quiet as a surprise present but it is proving more difficult than I first thought!! I have tried the library and got a few bits but nothing particularly substantial. I know it dates back to the early 1800's so this building should have a history somewhere.

Any info would be very much appreciated.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Its now a residential big house im not sure if its returned to what was a big house or always been a public house, i'll never forget it tho always be a reminder to update my tetnus jab after the last time us accywebbers were there in its public house glory lol :D

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

haha thanks, its my family that have done it up so as a christmas present I'm trying to do some research into it as it holds alot of memories (probably mainly drunken ones from what I can gather) for my family going back years. Unfortuantely I was too young to experience this but any stories would be great, sounds like there were many charachters that have gone in there over the last century or so!

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Oh well if its pee up stories i'll point ya to the thread where we had a web meet at the shoulder of mutton a while back

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...-up-22675.html think theres link off that to the photos of the meet up there:D

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Oh & thread on when its closed to the public and some stories there too

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ton-29129.html

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Thanks for your help 'Stanleymad' I will have a look into that but I'm hoping to get something more on the history of the place, there should be some old, old photos lurking about collecting dust somewhere.....I'm determined to find something!

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Well I know quite a lot about the Shoulder Nicky, but unfortunately I won't be much help as my memories are off leaning on the bar over many years:D

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

No probs im sure someone here may be able to help its amazing what un earths sorry i could only help with the late history:)

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Some of the old news papers should list the licensee's at the licence renewals also there may be something in the old council minutes.
Did you ask about those at the library.
Retlaw.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Hiya Nicky .. good to meet you.

I have requested information about the Shoulder on this thread from #36

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ety-50437.html

Was for you ... we have a mutual friend who asked me ... you may have already had something from her. Will send you a Private Message.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Did find the licensee from a Church and Oswaldtwistle census 1881 .. was a lady... Should have been passed on to Nicky. Difficult since then as have to search, thereafter, by name.

Folio: 115

Shoulder Mutton, Oswaldtwistle

Elizabeth GRIMSHAW/Head/u/41/Licensed Victualler/Oswaldtwistle
Betty HOWARTH/Cousin/u/21/General Servant/Accrington 81.58
Ellen RILEY/Visitor/u/18/Seacombe, Cheshire


Did think of popping in the Library myself to see if they held any further information (I'm so helpful ... LOL)

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Please can I just thank everybody so far today, I'm absolutely amazed at how quick I have gotten responses and really chuffed!! Hopefully I can keep this quiet up to Christmas...

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Hi Nicky
If you want any census details let me know as I can trace them by address with the discs I have.
Also if you look in the old newspapers it shows that inquests used to be held at the pub so let me know if you want to see those.

I am still in the process of finding out if the picture that I posted of the pub has been sold yet so will make an effort to go tomorrow and find out for you

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Anzac your a star, thanks so much for this. I'm intrigued about the inquests I have to say I had no idea that they were held up there, do you have any of this information? I went into the library and they said if I had an actual topic of story they might be able to find more in detail.

With regards to the photo that would be brilliant, I've even tried to get hold of the brewery but to no avail. I do know such information is out there, we found out that it used to be called the 'Leg of Mutton' a long long time ago!

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

My grandfather , grandmother , my mum and her sister lived in the little house that is next to what was the Shoulder . They moved in when they got married in 1912 .
Before then my gran lived with her parents , brothers and sisters in the house across the road , 32 Cross Edge.

I'll root around and see if I can find some old photos .

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Accrington Library holds much that will interest you: look at Barretts Directoriesof Blackburn & District for names of licensees. Each february in the Observer, there were reports from the Brewster Sessions. Green Haworth at this point was probably in the Accrington Police area, but if not, look into the Church reports.
Thwaites' brewery will have the pub's records. They aren't all that great at replying in detail.
Census records are available on-line ( free from the library's computers) up to 1911.

There is a PC Sholliker (?)at Accrington Police Station who is helpful in looking at police files.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Thanks Bob, I've left messages with the brewery so fingers crossed something may turn up if I pester them enough. Some really nice people on here are looking into some stuff for me which I am so chuffed about, I only hope if I find anything of interest to people that I can be of help at some point, this site is addictive!

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Thanks JCB this sounds perfect if you stumble across anything I would be more than grateful. So far I have found that Green Haworth was infamous for roughien fellows who enjoyed a drink and was known for Cock fighting, Bullfighting and gambling, such interesting characters seemed to frequent there, I'm loving finding out the history of the place.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

You're right, Bob, Thwaites aren't terribly helpful with past records ... they just try and sell you their own history publication which wouldn't be any help. Don't think they hold the records anyway.

Actually, am a little confused. Was it still a Thwaites's pub when it closed ? They were after selling it in 1996 and a 'photo Ossygobbin put up on his site in 2003 clearly shows it as a Mitchell's pub ? (mind you, it may have been taken earlier).

Did notice that John Virtue (famous local painter) had done a painting of the pub dated 1972, however, his works of art are very abstract and sometimes unrecognisable. Also, would probably cost a fortune to buy. It is not showing an image as yet ?

John Virtue: The Open Art Collection

Did actually join this site to see if it showed the image ... now getting communications from people who wish to discuss fine art .... LOL ... haven't got a clue ... :o

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

My mother used to tell me about the Mayor of Bedlam .
A man was chosen to be Mayor of Bedlam , and each year he would lead the people of Bedlam in procession to the now disused Methodist Chapel just past the Shoulder .

Yes they were rum buggers up there then .

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Picked up on a story where one of the preachers hung himself in the vestry of the Methodist chapel after his sermon of "Do as I say:Not do as I do". Wonder if his inquest was held at the Shoulder ?

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Katex, I found in the library archives that Tetleys had it before Thwaites and as far as I could see Thwaites were the last ones on record to own the pub I think? I have actually got a copy of John Virtues picture of the Shoulder, its quite abstract having been drawn from the bottom of the hill but it is still something, it was sold at a Christies auction a few years back! Sorry for you being pestered now by random art folk!

I have to say I am very keen on hearing about these inquests, I can't believe I couldn't find anything about these at the library or I guess I may not have known where to look!

Wow that is rather morbid about the chapel although I would like to learn more. Oh to have a look round that place.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

JCB like the sound of the Mayor of Bedlam, one of my friends lives on that row now and I've got her hooked on the history side of things now aswell!

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Haha .. it's ok about the Art site .. thought it was funny. Did wonder if the entry of John Virtue was old ... bit ambiguous. Like his paintings.. :D

Sounds like you are doing extremely well with your research and am sure your parents will appreciate the effort you have put in.

'Course the story re. the preacher may not be true .. was googling.. can't remember where I saw it now.

Re. Thwaites .. like I said .. not sure. If you go into Ossygobbin's site and scroll down to Oswaldtwistle Pubs, the picture is in there.. don't think allowed to put up due to copyright ?

Life and times of Oswaldtwistle :: Fotopic.Net

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

I might be having a bit of a moment but I can't for life of me see Shoulder on that site? I've seen practically every other pub under the 'Oswaldtwistle Pubs' link?

By the way Katex I will be sure to pass on my thanks with all this once I've let my family in on it!

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

8th row down, second in from left .. hover over the pictures too .. will label it.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

I was definately having a moment!!! Thankyou. Gonna pop into the library tonight I think to see if there is anyting about the old inquests.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

Ah ! Just seen that Thwaites acquired part of the Mitchell's of Lancaster brewery in 1999 ... so looks like that 'photo was before then.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

I remember John Virtue lived close to the Shoulder in those days Kate

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

JCB I just realised I hadn't replied to this post,very sorry. I would be eternally grateful if you could have a look if you can find anything from when your family lived next door, that house is built of strong stuff, me and my brother were looking at one of the old pics on here and the render is still identical nearly 100 years ago!

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

I'm a new member, researching for a book about my father, Rev. James Butterworth - a.k.a. JB - who grew up in Rough Hey and was a boy preacher at Green Haworth before opening a famous Youth Club in London. JB didn't drink at the Shoulder himself, being a strict Methodist, but his grandfather James Duckworth - better known as 'Owd Doc' - did, and by all accounts he was quite a local character and well known. This would be in the late 19th C and beginning of the 20th.

The only story I have of Owd Doc's exploits is that was returning home one night from the pub, the worse for wear and without lights on his trap. Knowing that the local constable would be on the lookout, he put the horse in the cart and got between the shafts himself, in the hopes of avoiding a fine. When as expected the policeman stepped into the road and enquired what he was up to, he replied: ‘Talk to t’driver’.

Owd Doc was married to Ellen Cunliffe, and they had 10 children. If anyone has memories of this family, esp. OD himself I would be very interested to hear.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

I've heard a similar story, but this one was Bunny Barnes coming down Manchester road near where the fire stn would be built, Bunny lived at the first house in Pinch belly row

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth
 

My late father-in-law used to talk about Bunny Barnes. He was a childhood friend of Bunny's son Gilly Barnes and was at Bunny's bedside when he died because the family were too upset to be present.

Re: Shoulder of Mutton, 6 Cross Edge, Green Haworth