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derekgas 26-11-2007 15:49
Plumbing emergencies!
 
Just noticed a google ad at the bottom of a thread for reactfast plumbing and heating emergencies, someone told me the other day (a plumber), he does work for these, (so they contract out a lot), the job took 40 minutes, reactfast told him he should have made it last another 20 minutes and charged another hour! Just thought it should be known!

park381 23-12-2007 16:25
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 498047)
Just noticed a google ad at the bottom of a thread for reactfast plumbing and heating emergencies, someone told me the other day (a plumber), he does work for these, (so they contract out a lot), the job took 40 minutes, reactfast told him he should have made it last another 20 minutes and charged another hour! Just thought it should be known!
Is that not how all traders work, think of a figure then double it :D

derekgas 23-12-2007 17:39
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Not where I work, my boss is more fair than anybody I have worked for in the past, including big companies like British gas.

park381 23-12-2007 20:25
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 506864)
Not where I work, my boss is more fair than anybody I have worked for in the past, including big companies like British gas.
Your boss uses a lucky bag then :):)

British gas are one big joke. 2 weeks training and out on the road as a
qualified gas engineer :D:D:D

glasgow guy 24-12-2007 18:38
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
I work with a load of gas fitters/plumbers in my job so I am quite covered if anything goes wrong at home..parts at cost price and a pint as payment..and no call out charge !!

BERNADETTE 24-12-2007 18:49
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
My brother-in-law is a plumber so just a phone call gets any energencies sorted out

derekgas 24-12-2007 18:51
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 506961)
Your boss uses a lucky bag then :):)

British gas are one big joke. 2 weeks training and out on the road as a
qualified gas engineer :D:D:D
BG is not quite like that yet, they train qualified people for 2 weeks before they send them on the road, it used to be to bring them up to BG standards, now it is as much to teach them sales techniques as anything else, because they have shareholders and pay commission. BG is definately not what it used to be, it has been far too easy for people to become corgi registered for years, it is changing, but still not stringent enough.

park381 25-12-2007 07:23
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507369)
BG is not quite like that yet, they train qualified people for 2 weeks before they send them on the road
BG used to send groups of new starters to stay for a week at the Swallow Hotel (Preston new road) they attended gas training courses at Blackburn College, the courses run by Stan the man. I don't know if they still do that, but all the BG new starteres were new to the trade and from every walk of life. :eek::eek:

derekgas 25-12-2007 08:26
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 507546)
BG used to send groups of new starters to stay for a week at the Swallow Hotel (Preston new road) they attended gas training courses at Blackburn College, the courses run by Stan the man. I don't know if they still do that, but all the BG new starteres were new to the trade and from every walk of life. :eek::eek:
Wow! That's bad, and worse than I thought, that will be why BG has really gone down in some peoples estimation, another result of this is, we get a lot of calls from people willing to work cheap, or for free because they need experience to get corgi in thier own right, trouble is, no loyalty, why would you create your own competition?

park381 25-12-2007 09:22
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507552)
Wow! That's bad, and worse than I thought, that will be why BG has really gone down in some peoples estimation
That is very true. I know several people that have signed up with BG for their "Central Heating/Boiler Maintenance" and there are some real tales of woe, I know not all problems can be resolved at the first attempt, but to order and replace parts, as in process of elimination, until they have nearly rebuilt the boiler in finding the fault. Not very good :rolleyes::rolleyes:

derekgas 25-12-2007 09:30
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
We have a customer who got £560 back off them because they told her her boiler was obsolete when it wasn't, on average, we take a breakdown cover a week off BG, people are obviously getting wise to them.

park381 25-12-2007 10:15
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507570)
We have a customer who got £560 back off them because they told her her boiler was obsolete when it wasn't, on average, we take a breakdown cover a week off BG, people are obviously getting wise to them.
So what is your charge for breakdown cover, and what do you provide for that charge. Is all that subject to a site inspection of the boiler and system, the same as BG?

derekgas 25-12-2007 10:40
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
It's on the website, but standard boiler £129, guaranteed visit within 2 hours, inspection required unless already on cover with somebody, full system cover with exception to the flue. Combi is £149, fires etc can also be covered.

park381 25-12-2007 11:12
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507594)
It's on the website, but standard boiler £129, guaranteed visit within 2 hours, inspection required unless already on cover with somebody, full system cover with exception to the flue. Combi is £149, fires etc can also be covered.
Not bad, a well designed website, one thing your website does not tell me is that the boiler is serviced to the manufacturers specification. Do you strip and clean the combustion chamber, and clean off the burner ass.?

derekgas 25-12-2007 11:16
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 507602)
Not bad, a well designed website.
Thank you, I will tell the boss, though i'm sure she knows, she is pretty good at what we do!

park381 25-12-2007 11:22
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507604)
Thank you, I will tell the boss, though i'm sure she knows, she is pretty good at what we do!
Have just added to my previous post, do you service a boiler combi or system as per the manufacturers specification and guide lines

derekgas 25-12-2007 11:33
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 507602)
Not bad, a well designed website, one thing your website does not tell me is that the boiler is serviced to the manufacturers specification. Do you strip and clean the combustion chamber, and clean off the burner ass.?
In respect of servicing, the conventional (non condensing) boilers are stripped and cleaned, condensing boilers are not to be touched inside the heat exchanger for 3 years, the way to check these is by testing the gas pressure (must be 18 millibar) and the flue gas/air ratio must be as per manufacturers instructions. Just as important is the water quality, we test each service to determine water quality, this is because poor system water = short lifespan of the boiler. As explained on the website, many engineers don't have the equipment or capability to service condensing boilers, I was recently told by 3 'engineers' that they service modern boilers, 'the old way', this is impossible.

park381 25-12-2007 11:46
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507609)
In respect of servicing, the conventional (non condensing) boilers are stripped and cleaned, condensing boilers are not to be touched inside the heat exchanger for 3 years, the way to check these is by testing the gas pressure (must be 18 millibar) and the flue gas/air ratio must be as per manufacturers instructions. Just as important is the water quality, we test each service to determine water quality, this is because poor system water = short lifespan of the boiler. As explained on the website, many engineers don't have the equipment or capability to service condensing boilers, I was recently told by 3 'engineers' that they service modern boilers, 'the old way', this is impossible.
I would assume that a large %age of the boilers you work on are "the conventional type"

derekgas 25-12-2007 11:54
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 507613)
I would assume that a large %age of the boilers you work on are "the conventional type"
It is fast becoming the other way around, we installed 45 last year, 37 year before and 32 year before, customer base is about 6,500 in total, half of them regular annual service customers, and currently 361 on breakdown cover, 25% on cover are condensing boilers.

park381 25-12-2007 12:16
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507614)
It is fast becoming the other way around, we installed 45 last year, 37 year before and 32 year before, customer base is about 6,500 in total, half of them regular annual service customers, and currently 361 on breakdown cover, 25% on cover are condensing boilers.
25% sounds about right, what would be a normal charge for your company to

1. Flush out a system
2. Replace a conventional combi (say a potterton puma 80) with a condensing combi boiler of the same rating.
Would the customer be looking at say £1500 -£2000 or more

Are combi boilers the answer, are they energy efficient?

derekgas 25-12-2007 12:27
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 507617)
25% sounds about right, what would be a normal charge for your company to

1. Flush out a system
2. Replace a conventional combi (say a potterton puma 80) with a condensing combi boiler of the same rating.
Would the customer be looking at say £1500 -£2000 or more

Are combi boilers the answer, are they energy efficient?
Powerflushing is £300, a Worcester Bosch 30si, with 5 years guarantee, a magnaclean unit, powerflush, manual (mechanical timeclock), horizontal flue, and 2 years free servicing is about £2100.

park381 25-12-2007 12:39
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507618)
Powerflushing is £300, a Worcester Bosch 30si, with 5 years guarantee, a magnaclean unit, powerflush, manual (mechanical timeclock), horizontal flue, and 2 years free servicing is about £2100.
That is a big investment, so the home owner could be looking at £2500 to replace his conventional combi with one that complies with L1 of the building regs.

But what about my question regarding combi boilers, are they energy efficient?

derekgas 25-12-2007 12:42
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
£2500 is nearer the cost for a 35cdi which condenses in hot water as well as heating mode, or for conversion from regular boiler (with tanks) to a combi, regular combis are around 75% efficient, condensing combis are around 90% efficient, the best I have had is 96% efficiency with it going flat out, an average is more like 90.3, the difference in different machines is negligable with condensing boilers, but quality and reliability is a different matter.

park381 25-12-2007 12:50
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507620)
£2500 is nearer the cost for a 35cdi which condenses in hot water as well as heating mode, or for conversion from regular boiler (with tanks) to a combi, regular combis are around 75% efficient, condensing combis are around 90% efficient, the best I have had is 96% efficiency with it going flat out, an average is more like 90.3, the difference in different machines is negligable with condensing boilers, but quality and reliability is a different matter.
I will go along with that, but my point was are combi boilers energy efficient, what about the cold water draw off before you get hot water, more so on "longish" pipework runs, is that not a waste of water?

What are your thoughts on the companies that advertise on Ebay and still sell conventional combi boilers that you as a corgi reg contractor could not install because they do not comply.

derekgas 25-12-2007 13:00
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Long piperuns should be avoided where possible, most modern combis have a pre-heat system, so if the boiler is installed in the cylinder cupboard, the length of wait should be similar to that with a cylinder, a combi of any description is more efficient than storing water, it is worth noting that with a combi, you need good water pressure (cold), no matter how big the boiler is, it can only provide an equivalent amount of hot water that is available from the cold mains, if pressure is not good enough, then a hot tap opened downstairs will drop the pressure to an outlet being used upstairs at the same time, the only way to guarantee hot water throughout in this case is a 'y' plan system (keep the cylinder), but then the system efficiency is affected.

park381 25-12-2007 13:21
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekgas (Post 507623)
Long piperuns should be avoided where possible,
That may be all well and good in a new build house, but not always possible in an existing house. Most boilers are sited in a kitchen with the bathroom not directly above.
Have seen installations where combi boiler in installed in a garage, and the cylinder (first floor) has been removed, pipework linked so the hot water flow is to the first floor before coming down to the kitchen, that is a lot of water to waste, may be a wrong application/position of the combi boiler.
In most cases where a normal system boiler/cylinder is replaced by a combi boiler that is what happens.

With a combi there is always the drop in temperature of the incoming mains cold water in winter, all combi boiler manufacturers use the 35* temperature rise as a yard stick, so in winter the temperature of the hot water produced is relative to the reduced temperature of the incoming cold water. That is unless the combi boiler is way oversized.

park381 25-12-2007 13:28
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Very interesting conversation, Merry Christmas derekgas.

Am going for my Christmas Dinner now :):):)

derekgas 25-12-2007 13:35
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 507624)
That may be all well and good in a new build house, but not always possible in an existing house. Most boilers are sited in a kitchen with the bathroom not directly above.
Have seen installations where combi boiler in installed in a garage, and the cylinder (first floor) has been removed, pipework linked so the hot water flow is to the first floor before coming down to the kitchen, that is a lot of water to waste, may be a wrong application/position of the combi boiler.
In most cases where a normal system boiler/cylinder is replaced by a combi boiler that is what happens.

With a combi there is always the drop in temperature of the incoming mains cold water in winter, all combi boiler manufacturers use the 35* temperature rise as a yard stick, so in winter the temperature of the hot water produced is relative to the reduced temperature of the incoming cold water. That is unless the combi boiler is way oversized.
You are right, I always try and utilise the airing cupboard for that reason, if the garage is used, I would usually try and arrange the pipework to a more suitable position, if a combi is used correctly and correctly sized, the temperature difference should only be relevant to the time taken to run a bath, the temperature control should be set that when a basin or sink tap is opened, the water is the correct temp, then turned up to facillitate the running of the bath, otherwise, the tendency is to run the water too hot, then use cold water to cool down what you just paid to heat up = innefficiency. Also. with Worcester, the stated temperature rises are minimum rises, they are actually better than quoted, ie a 30si usually does 14 litres pm at 35c rise in mild weather.

derekgas 25-12-2007 15:00
Re: Plumbing emergencies!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by park381 (Post 507625)
Very interesting conversation, Merry Christmas derekgas.

Am going for my Christmas Dinner now :):):)
Merry christmas park381.


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