Rights and freedoms....
 

What just happened? Did democracy and right of freedom of speech just die in Accrington? Is discussion in the public interest no longer to be tolerated?

I did not agree with the original content of the post that was recently removed, I like others, was concerned about the possible damage to the club’s reputation and the gate. Now I am more concerned that the right to discuss these matters have been removed from the public domain.

What you fail to realise is that the real damage perpetrated by the Observer by running the story “In the Public Interest” in the first place. I expect that the person(s)’ who removed the thread and those who called for it’s removal are now running round like idiots buying up and or, destroying copies of the said observer.

The best possible way of avoiding negative publicity is to not rise to it. Banning the right of others to voice there concerns is not the way forward. What you’ve just asked for and got is nothing more than censorship.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

I’m sorry to hear that Doug but I suspect that you talking about a thread that was posted in the Accrington Stanley section and as you know Accrington Stanley Football Club Fans have there own section here at Accringtonweb.com. Accrington Stanley forums also have there very own moderators and disciplines and also abide by our rules. Unfortunately I am unable to help you as I am a moderator of the Accyweb side and not Accrington Stanley.
I thought I would post this because you are bringing Accyweb into disrepute by having posted what you did.

Respect

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Len, if I have brought the site into disrepute I humbly apologise, it’s not what I intended are wanted. I also apologise to all of Accrington Webs Moderators and members if any offence was caused by this thread.

The point I wanted to make was I felt it was wrong for the post to be pull on the ground that were stated, we have had many discussions about contentious posts in the past and it as been generally agreed that people had the right to express there concerns and opinions openly, today I felt that the objections of a few posters had brought the post to a premature end.

I would also extend my apology to the individual, who had taken the decision to withdraw the thread, having now read the article in the observer with hindsight I wouldn't have responded in the manner in which I did.

Again, my sincere apologies………

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

The moderators are doing a job, which I'm sure is pretty thankless sometimes, so thanks.

Point noted Len, about the mods on the Stanley section, but they do also have access to the rest of the site too. I saw BBK reading my question that I asked earlier about old posts.


I too was a bit suprised to see the thread Doug mentioned pulled. Does make you wonder about power going to some peoples heads.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Doug; I believe it was right to remove that particular thread. That issue has been overly-discussed to the point of absurdity, and there is no reason at all why the matter should still be connected to Accrington Stanley Football Club.
I'm afraid that is a very sensitive topic around Stanley fans, and it is now more about damage limitation to the club by keeping it as far away as possible.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

I heard it was you that asked for it's removal Shakey, and that's your right. It being discussed here still won't bury the story when it's featured in the local press.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

As I said; its now a matter of damage limitation.

The local press have brought down ASFC's reputation so far over the past year so we need to do our best to raise the good name of the club in our bid to bring in supporters instead of deterring them.

Maybe I'm wrong but I believe this is the view of most of the Stanley fans.
Just look how many people pounced on that thread within minutes saying that the thread starter was out of place.

Make love not war.
(lol how cheesy was that!)

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

I agree, but as one who 'pounced' on the thread to state my opinion, I feel agrieved that my right to free speech was removed, and I speak as a fan, and don't pull rank by saying that you've been a fan for longer than I have, I know that.

You can't preach freedom of expression, and then deny it when you don't think it suits your cause.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

No I see your point completely; and I would prefer for the thread to stay up there for people to see what the people of Accy think about the matter BUT in leaving it up there; it again draws attention to a reputation-damaging topic which has been discussed on the forum a long time ago...and doesnt really need to be brought up again.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Circulation Accy Observer -15,000

People that would have viewed the thread a lot less.

I'm not going to restate what I wrote in the thread, you removed that right.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

15,000 copies of the Observer are in circulation, it’s beyond any control that can be administered on this site. And that’s what’s absurd about this issue.

Damage limitation is a matter for the club and they know what they doing, if the chap hadn’t wrote the letter in the first place this issue would have been dealt with in a proper manner without fan’s declaring abstention.

My post wasn’t about this unfortunate incident; it was about the freedom to express concern without prejudice. It would have been enough to close the thread and leave at that. The issue had already been discussed in a more damaging manner in another thread that no had objected too or requested closure on.

I would be grateful if people didn’t try and hi-jack this post too highlight the former issue. This is about all those areas were the few influence decisions that we’re all old enough to hold an opinion on.

Just a point of note, I was a Stanley fan back in the dark old days, just because I’ve recently re-declared my support doesn’t mean I’m not concerned about the club the same as everyone else.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

It wasn't a one man mission! Several people agreed which is why the thread was removed - no one would have given one iota of a f**k if it was just me calling for the thread to be scrapped as you well know.

I'm not going to argue about it because it's in the past; and im sorry if I personally have caused you any aggreivance but I believe it was in the best interest of Accrington Stanley Football Club.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

I hope you don't think I haven't 'hi-jacked' this thread. It is a bit hard not too, without discussing the issues it was removed for.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Brushing something under the carpet or hiding it on here by means of censorship, unfortunately doesn't make it go away.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Rereading this thread neither Doug or myself mentioned the content of the thread that was removed. You have.:(

Shot yourself a bit in the foot there, unless you get it removed.;)

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Yes you are correct there but discussing the issue in question and perpetuating it in an internet forum is hardly going to resolve the issue.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Reality is that one letter of complaint was wrote to the local paper who published the letter and the article in the public interest.

Concerns raised by people on this site were also in the public interest as it informed others who may not have been aware of it. That is what freedom of speech is.

When the thread was closed only 7 people had posted, some of them had done so twice. I have little doubt that others may have reported the post appropriately to the Moderators by pressing the report button.

Regardless, I personally feel that matter’s like this should be ignored and dealt with by the appropriate authorities, i.e. the club or if the law as been broken the police.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Once again I express my apologies for being one of the people to request the thread and in turn your views removed as it has obviously upset you.

Maybe I was right to do so maybe I wasnt but now I just want to get on with supporting my club and if that means "sweeping the issue under the carpet" then so be it.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Appology accepted.

The thing is what I said in the thread agrees with what you think, I just don't like having my right to say it taken away when it was in no way offensively wtitten. The damage was done by one person on Monday.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Yeah, and I have no doubt at all that he believe he was acting in the interests of the supporters, their family’s and his club. He may have little idea of the commotion he as caused on this site are in the public arena. We won’t know that until next Thursday, unless the LET choose to pick it up and run with it…..I hope not.

We are but a macrocosm of Accrington life on this site, sadly or fortunately we don’t run the town, its people or its offenders. But when you sweep things under the carpet Shakes the smell builds up until you have to open the doors.


Everyone finished now?.....

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

What's the point of a thread about free spech if people can't say what they want?

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Apparently, not one in which I’m going to get the last word…..:) .

Freedom of speech yes, the content of the thread actually removed no. :)

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

That's good.


I'd hate for you to try and gag me.:D

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Hi Gary
Concerning the ASFC moderators; as you have noticed, they, like everyone else including unregistered guests can freely browse our forums just like you and I. They can, in emergencies help out in the Accyweb side as can the Accyweb mods in the ASFC forums but that is very, very rare. As a rule they moderate their side and we moderate ours.
A couple of times now, you have mentioned BBK in your posts, I don’t know if you have an issue with him/her or it’s just a coincidence but as you know discussing or starting threads about moderators is a no no and although you really haven’t crossed that line it’s getting close.
I can tell you and I will probably be strung up for saying that BBK did not delete that thread.
At the end of the day the moderator has a job to do and it doesn’t matter which mod deletes which thread that is for us to know and no one else.
If anyone has a complaint to make about moderators, then contact admin or if anyone is not happy about any particular post or thread then don’t forget there is a report button situated at the top right hand side of every post. Please us it.
Do not under any circumstances try and vent your grievances on the public forums, use the proper channels.
I hope this helps.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Thanks Len.

I do appreciate that the moderators do a really good job, and get very little praise or thanks, which I'm sure we all agree with, and I for one thank them.

I have no problem with BBK. I only mentioned them because they were online at the time, and being a nosey beggar asked the question about past posts, which Wingy answered for me.

Cheers G.:)

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

I don't think posts like this go anywhere.....they just get a bit.....erm, I suppose tetchy is the word I am looking for. Maybe it would be best closed.....as there doesn't seem much doing in the way of resolution.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

I'm sorry, I think it brings things out into the open, and certainly questions I had have been well answered.

As for closed threads, they are more aggravating than disappearing threads, if you read something and may want to add your point of view to.

Cry Freedom.:)

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Just a quick note to back up what len has said seeing he beat me to it. For those who wannted said thread deleted, your lucky that it was. I certainly wouldn't have closed or deleted it! Not one post in that thread was reported properly. everybody knows there's a report button, if you have a problem use the report system thats what its there for. Many posts and threads have been reported in the past because they upset somebody, but unless its a personal dig threads should not be closed because of one persons oppinion. I'm sure its been pointed out before, when you report a post a thread is automaticaly started in the mod forum where we then discuss what should happen, and believe me we disagree but we usually come up with some sort of comprimise. IMO everybody has the right to freedom of speech, but if it upsets too many people something will be done about it.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Well said Wingy :D

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

Here, here.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

I am grateful for both Len and Wingy’s contributions to this thread and would like to reiterate that it wasn’t an attack as such on the Moderators or the System. I’m comfortable with the response they have given, in particular by Wingy’s post which reaffirms that people do and will have the right to express their concerns freely.

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

mmmmm the sweet smell of hypocrisy.........
i was gonna say the carpet sweep thing but was beaten to it....
...in the best interest of the club? ....of course i see now ....
kerching...kerching...

Re: Rights and freedoms....
 

:confused: Am not 100% sure but think I may have added to that thread in question, however am not going to complain about that, just wanted to add that replies state Accy Obs 15,000 copies great news for a small local paper but dont forget that they also use the internet so the info is out there somewhere.

Mods thank you for all your hard work you do it all behind the scenes but without you there would just be maddness.

Freedom of speech I think should be there at all times and if ever I post something that upsets someone I would hope that they contact me in 1st place or if they not wanting to do that then I would hope that the Mods would do that before pulling a post or thread. :engsmil: