Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

In East Germany after WWII, people use to write to the local press and complain about this/that/or the other and about what they thought on local and national issues. Some papers actually printed them. Suddenly, these papers started to appear with blanked out letters to the editor columns. People started to get "knocks on their doors" after dark. And people who wrote letters to the editor, started to go for "long holidays in Siberia". The message was quite clear....Don't print or allow the truth to appear, stop the people thinking about it by omission.

Sinister times!!

Earlier this week, Tealeaf started a thread based on a story in the Evening Telegraph about school children being allowed / encouraged to speak their mother tongue instead of English at their school. I wrote what I considered to be a valid comment on this subject and innocuously made reference to their origins. Whilst I was actually on the thread, my posting was deleted; by whom I don't know! No statement about the deletion was given and no PM was sent.
I was almost immediately personally attacked in a posting by Kippax regarding the innocuous word that I used "Pa*i", and although his attack was vociferous, and quite nasty in nature I replied using correct, non-inflammatory English, and asked him/she to admit that they were wrong about my intentions.
I did not like or agree with the Kippax posing, but I would defend his right to say it, openly and freely - That IS freedom of speech and expression.
This morning I find that not only had my postings been deleted, but the whole thread had also been deleted. Not a trace of it. Nor any reference to it - just as if it had never existed. A truly Orwellian method.

The aim of this "new" thread is to alert all members to this occurrence on what is "OUR" website (as without members no website can exist), and propose a system where members will at least be aware what was originally on site, and why "Threads" had been deleted. This is not reformist, nor reactionary, nor a radical change that would harm this website.

I feel all "Censor" deleted threads / postings should remain as a header, but their contents deleted. This will show that the "Censor" without recourse, has deleted the thread. It would also be more helpful if the "Censor" stated why the thread / posting had been deleted. There would be no further correspondence, but it would show that "something" was amiss. This would enable individuals to correct what the "Censor" thought was an infringement of any rules that are imposed. It is not enough to "Delete" without saying why it had been deleted, otherwise members will not know what they have done wrong! And will therefore be unable to ensure that it doesn't happen again. That seems fair and honest to me. Sending a PM to the person who has, intentionally or unintentionally infringed the rules, will make them directly aware of the problem.

By carrying out the foregoing, the site would show that it had no "dark intentions" and was fair and free to all.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Sounds good to me Darby. I don't know if one of my posts was offensive to the site owner or not. I posted a lot in that thread.

The last notification I had of a post was one informing people that a certain item is still available for sale and therefore must no longer be non PC.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I don't know how I got involved in this, I've been away on holiday :)

Anyway - I'm still having a look around at what has been deleted and what has been censored. But please remember the moderators are doing there job, if something is considered racial or whatever (I'm not getting into what is and isn't right now) then I can get into trouble(not the moderators), even though when you sign up there is an agreement that you will be responsible as the poster. I don't want to get into trouble or have this site closed down - I don't know if you are aware but the internet is far from a free speech resource, there are many legal rules and guidelines that have to be followed on a site such as this, too many for me or any of the moderators to actually be certain on. So to err on the side of caution is the best solution as of now.

Discussions are being held with our moderators on what the best solution is for the future of the site. This is a discussion forum after all and we do live in a multi race/culture society so the subject is always going to appear.

I will leave this thread open and if anyone wishes to contribute ideas then they are welcome. If this thread however turns into a race debate then it will be closed.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Thank You Roy. I also hope that this thread stays on the topic of Thread and Posting Deletions. After all, it is important what Thread / Posting is deleted. Why it is deleted is always open to debate, but there are rules and interpretation of rules. If we all know what's happened, we can then moderate our posts or not make any comments, but we will be aware.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Its KIPAX with one P.... How hard can that be? :)

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I'll just point out right now the use of the work "p***" will not be tolerated at all on this website. This is not open to discussion and will not be re-considered. It could be illegal and whatever the history of the word this rule is now going to be set in stone for accyweb.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Just a suggestion - if something in a post offends (not the whole post but a word for example) is it possible for a moderator to edit that word and then add an explanation that a word has been edited and by whom and why, yet leave the post and thread more or less intact.

This has been the accepted proceedure at another forum I visit. Also, if a thread itself is a possible problem they move the whole thread to an administration area (not sure if you have one of those on here) where it can only be seen by "staff" until it is edited to the required/necessary standard and then replaced (a note being left in the open forum to explain the temporary removal and that it will reappear at some future point)

That way the whole discussion isn't lost but the members are made aware of problems.

I fully understand that it is necessary to comply with terms of usage or the whole board could be removed by the host (or whatever you call the board provider - ie not Roy but the source)

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I don't think the original user of the P word intended it as an insult. An edit accompanied by a request to "not use this word" may have sufficed at the time an avoided further problems.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Roy is the providor and the host. See his posts around this forum on server issues.

If an explanation is given to a deleted post then the person who has been edited will make a perfectly reasonable response as to why he posted what he did. This will read great to other posters and mates and they will then jump in with there views and outrage and the thread concerned is then hijacked.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Sorry Kipax I was under the impression that this forum was hosted by Free Forums and didn't realise that was owned by Roy himself. I'm only familiar with things such as EzBoard and ProBoard.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

i was just trying to be informative mate.. cant see any need for apologies? :)

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I think you have sightly missed the point, and extrapolated a misconception of what was proposed. Please re-read my original posting, and note:

QUOTE: I feel all "Censor" deleted threads / postings should remain as a header, but their contents deleted. This will show that the "Censor" without recourse, has deleted the thread. It would also be more helpful if the "Censor" stated why the thread / posting had been deleted. There would be no further correspondence, but it would show that "something" was amiss.UNQUOTE

I hope this goes someway to alleviating your fears.

By the way are you a Moderator?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Could a censored thread be temporarily locked to prevent hijacking?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

If you lock a thread then people in there frustration will start another asking why that one was locked.... it really is a no win situation I am afraid.. Hate sounding so negative but I ahve seen this before many times.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Yes - but things can happen so quickly, before a moderator has chance to do anything. Anyway, we will consider an admin area for threads to be considered.....

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

IF in the event that anything written by me in the posts I myself summated during the night 22/23 June caused offence directly are indirectly to any individual, or contributed to the thread being removed. I would be grateful if the administrator or moderator would offer guidance in public or by PM as to what I wrote, “Caused actual offence.”

Please be assured that no offence was intended….

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I'd appreciate a PM too from the moderator(s) which would then ensure that if there is anything in my posts which offends then I do not repeat the offence.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

The technicalities of administering a "Locked or Deleted Thread" is something I am not qualified to comment on. But I am sure Roy will be able to provide something that is acceptable to all.

The subject thread that was deleted was done several hours after the "so-called" offending post. And contained 3 or 4 further replies. It didn't seem to crate an avalanche of rage or excessive postings. I feel that we should have a trial period where deletions are highlighted, noted and the thread locked. If this is unsuccessful, then we could consider an alternative method. Does this seem a reasonable approach?

I am not aware nor are several collegues of mine at the MOD, the Law Society, and Inland Revenue who deal with websites, of any Government directives about what and what not a website is allowed to contain or say or what limitations are imposed. Self impositions are the general norm, but must be clearly stated.
There are several websites that contain severe swear words, irreverent references, and aggressive remarks. They are all in the UK and are free to continue with their internet airing, unhindered by all. So I don't believe that we have anything to fear or to Kow-Tow to. Inference to what is right or wrong is very subjective and cannot be substantiated.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

They really don't have to worry about it though. I run a server that contains my website. I cannot afford solicitors or any legal troubles. I also don't want any bad publicity, at the end of the day anyone with any know how of the internet can get my full name and address through this website. They dont know who you are, they can't find you - but all comments on this website have a DIRECT LINK TO ME!!!! So, i don't care what the MOD or any government agencies policies are, and I don;t want to make enemies.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Roy hosts the forum. Therefore Roy is the one who will be held responsible for anyhting stored on his server. Doesn't matter who wrote it. The person storing it gets into trouble.

There was a court case a few years ago where Demon internet one of the UKs leading internet providors who where one of the first ISP companies in the UK was taken to court by an individual for storing remarks made about him on there servers. the remarks where made on usenet a sort of global messegeboard. Demon where found guilty of storing slanderous content (or is it libel when written?) anyway this at the time sent shockwaves through the whole system and everyone who now stores information such as messages has to be very carefull what they store.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Of course Roy, neither do I. I was only pointing out relevant associated information for your perusal.
I have only admiration for what you have achieved, and do not wish in any way to detract from it.
We all want the website to remain a friendly, homely, honest site where we can discuss topics of Mutual / Accrington Interest. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Then why not stop reffering to the asian community as P*** Practice what you preach eh :)

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I think this is where I got involved….Roy, I am sure that we would very much prefer to continue submitting to Accyweb knowing that it’s one of the best available local forums and without doubt one of the friendliest. That’s the nature of the people on this site.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I think it's perfectly acceptable to distinguish between different Asian nationalities (at least I hope it is) such as Bengali, Kashmiri, (edited due to censored word inadvertantly creating a different diminuative - sorry about that) etc but not to use diminuatives which could be deemed offensive.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Is that an ORDER?

Why do you continue to rage about a word and its inadvertant usage that I have quite clearly explained several times. Are you about to have a heart attack on the subject?
I'm all for freedom of speech and against repression, so please try to moderate your responses to something more objective, and lets move on to more pedantic subjects that you can comprehend.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

is that an order? what you on about? I said why not... you consider that a rage? or an order?

why not stop I said... your just making arguments out of anything now :(

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

My dear man, please try to control yourself, and don't get so worked up. Go and lie down for a hour or so.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

sigh... your so confused...

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I stand by my thoughts on the original subject - but I begrudgingly accept that some form of self-censure may have to be exercised (only for the good of the site and not to give in to the pc brigade). I do wonder though where we draw the line on what could be deemed offensive - there's probably around 5 posts a day at least that some body in some way could take offence at.....

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Very true. We would lack consistency, and be open to ridicule. It's up to the members to use common sense, without the "thought police" needing to be involved.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I bought 1984 on video today - been trying to track it down for a while! Coincidence?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

But suppose the members dont use common sense ..then should the moderators step in or leave people to simply post what they want?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Oh ye of little faith :engsmil: :engsmil: :engsmil:

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

That is the role of a moderator surely? But as I said in another thread I would appreciate it if a moderator could inform us (when censoring) where we have overstepped the mark so that we can avoid doing so in future

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Try "Animal Farm" as well. It's very reminiscent of NuLabour and todays Media policies.

I liked the sheepdog myself!

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

It was well rehearsed in East Germany, The "Staatssicherheitsdienst" "STASI" played a leading role.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Read both 1984 and Animal Farm but haven't seen either on film. Waiting for the right mood before I watch 1984 as it wont be a cheery affair! I hope its better than the film of Brave New World - very disappointing.

Sorry - off topic I know, but didn't want to start a new thread just to say this....

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Further to my concern of 'where do we draw the line on what is considered offensive' I found an archived thread where there is considerable reference to 'pufters', 'poofters' and 'southern softies' - no asteriks, no edits, thread freely available to view. I didn't go looking for this, and I understand and appreciate Roy and the Mods position regarding this issue, yet its funny that homosexual men can be referred to as 'poofters' yet any euphemism concerning our asian brethren is banned.

Like I said - Not having a go at Roy or the Mods, on the contrary I think they have had to act on the original topic because of the PC idiots.....they have to cover their backs from the left-wing loonies, but it seems they have to cover them more when discussing Pakistanis. Why? What is the difference between sexual orientation and race? Positive discrimination is widening the chasm between white and asian cultures.....

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Cheers CJ...I'd forgot all about that thread

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

If a post is seen as offensive to any user, they can report it using the "report" icon. Had any of the posts mentioned above been reported then they will have been dealt with in the same way.
Are you sure that no posts in this thread were deleted??

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I think that Roy and all the Mod's do a great job - but I can understand that if a post or thread is deleted the author of the post would like to know why; so the same mistake isn't made twice. I also think that the majority of the members of this site do have the ability to use common sense when posting - but we all need some guidance at times!

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

[QUOTE=WINGY]If a post is seen as offensive to any user, they can report it using the "report" icon. Had any of the posts mentioned above been reported then they will have been dealt with in the same way.
Are you sure that no posts in this thread were deleted??[QUOTE]

That was exactly my point in the first instance, How would anybody know a post or thread had been deleted? and for what reason?
As for the REPORT icon, I assumed that we were all human beings and straight forward people (a trait in Accrington), who could ask other posters to moderate their postings without recourse to REPORTING them behind their backs (just like at skew...I'll tell the teacher over him/her!!)
My initial posting was trying to correct what I considered a flaw in our DELETE / MODERATOR procedures, and something I felt would be fair to all, Moderators and Posters alike.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

No post could have been deleted because I only saw them yesterday in the archive. Was the 'p***' post reported or was it deleted purely as a matter of policy?

What I am saying is that it is funny (well, actually pretty tragic really) that the same people have widely varying attitudes to different 'groups' when they chose to start forcing their 'political correctness' agenda on the rest of us. Just a thought.....

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Is anybody out there?


Is there any chance of my proposal being considered or implemented? or need we keep going through all this time, and time again?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

It's a bit grim out here....Not the best place to be.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Lurpak i prefer margarine, now would this post be banned ???

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

As an outsider here & not having taken part or seen the thread concerned, I'd say if a mod or admin of a forum deleted it because it had potential to cause problems for the forum or their owners then I'm afraid that it would just have to be lived with & I would.

Although the forums (whichever they may be, wherever on the web) are "for" the users they are run by the administration team & their decisions have to be accepted otherwise there is no point in having any moderation.

Decisions can often differ between different moderators, especially if they do not have a set of specific guidelines to follow.

Expecting a mod to spent the time to chop & change threads, delete messages from them when the whole thread can be deleted because it contains potential troublesome posts can be asking a lot from a mod.

If this site does not already have a separate admin/mod only area to move troublesome posts into then it would be highly advised to do so, having been an admin of another site I found this most useful, especially for allowing the mods to temporarily move the thread there while a final decision was sought or changes made.
Auto pruning if available can clear out the forum after a set period.

As users, does it really matter if a thread is removed? do you really lose anything?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Some of us weren't so much concerned about having lost something as not knowing in particular if something we'd said had contributed towards the reason for its removal. On the basis that if we don't know we've said something we shouldn't then we could easily end up making the same innocent mistake again. If we know what we shouldn't have said then we can avoid saying it.

As an administrator of a (now sadly defunct) message board I must say that we found an admin area extremely useful for temporary "docking" of possible problem threads and for discussion amongst moderators as to what was and was not acceptable. A private word to those whose posts had caused the problem usually avoided any further difficulties. Edited threads were often replaced back in the open forums.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

In principle I concur with your opinion and the use of an admin/mod area seems sensible.
However, the reason for this thread in the first place was a sudden disapearence of a posting and then another whole thread, so that those who posted did not know (A) why they had been deleted and (B) what they had done / written that was wrong.
Or had somebody squeeled that they did not want to see words or the thread itself or the moderator had made an executive decision and simply deleted it. Without some explanation, albeit without further discussion or prolonged arguement, we could all assume anything up to political underhandedness..

If threads can be removed at will without reasoning, then why have a site in the first place? A Read-Only website would do!

A simply PM saying why...would be quite satisfactory, its not actually rocket-science.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

If no one can post then what would they read? Duh!

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Kipax. You are what's known as a nice man. But with very limited intellect, and reasoning power.
I know that you have difficulties with trying to understand or even comprehend somebody else's point of view, but just for you:
"Anybody with half a brain cell (well maybe a touch more) would know that; the powers that would be, (people like yourself - and members of the PC brigade that cannot stand or reason with another point of view) would provide the inputs based on what they thought was suitable, or censored versions of external stories for the rest of us to consume".

Now, there you are.

As you ALWAYS MUST HAVE the last word, I await your reply with baited breath.

I'm so excited I can hardly contain my indifference.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Nice one Darby. I must remember that.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I've now read a little more of this subject and hope you don't mind if I stick my two pennorth in as a message board owner without wishing to sound self promoting.

I have seen the opposite extremes of moderating and believe it is necessary to find a happy medium. Yes, it's true that the board owner should be able to specify the permissable limits but on the other hand without the members there wouldn't be a board.

I know of one message board where anything goes, including foul language and personal insults to such an extent that all which now remains is a series of such postings with nothing of any value to them whatsoever. I also know a board which is moderated by little hitlers who delete every off topic post or even those deemed to be off topic to the point where people soon stop posting because five minutes later half of what they said has disappeared.

I don't personally tolerate certain words (and have used an auto substitute feature in order to censor them which in itself leads to some hilarity when leg pullers try their damndest to outwit me) but thread wanders are tolerated and treated lightheartedly. In fact we even have an emoticon for them. There's no point in putting people off before they even get started.

It looks like a lot of customisation work has gone into the creation of this board and I must check out more of the features (there's my own little thread wander to illustrate a point) lol.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Thanks for your point of view, and one that I can accept without any arguements. Common sense should be the norm, but as you know, it's not always used.
I can accept most things on websites and boards, and I always try not to misuse or abuse anybody or any rules.
As you say, there's always exceptions, and Roy has done a lot of hard work and deserves support from us all. But I like to know the reasons that any of my posts are deleted. If it's PC.....OK then I know and can move on, if I've offended another human being, then I can apologise and rectify things.

No big deal, I thought. But mere mortals such as I can be wrong I suppose!

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I totally agree with both Gobsmacked and Darby here.

Perhaps some of the problems arise from things not being read in the same tone of voice in which they are written (if you know what I mean)

Unfortunately I take most postings at face value and have recently managed to offend someone by presuming that something another person posted was on topic and then asking the originator of the thread a simple question. :confused:

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

So todays post by Darby containing personal insults directed at me is OK is it? Cheers fellas.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Yes...Yes.....the last word! (as predicted). Now can I get on with other things?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I was asking the other two if they agreed your personal insults where acceptable. I have reported your post and trust the insults will be removed.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Lets wait and see what the others think first. :eek: :eek:

I didn't think they were insults.....more like observations of an attitude problem. Still, small minds small...............!
I use to teach first year apprentices who had some minor attitude problems, but they managed to grow-up in time.

Ah well, back to less mundane things...like work. Now what's 4 letters and begins with P?
Funny how some people easily get offended by a word that's in the Oxford Dictionary! :engsmil: :engsmil:

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Pool? Path? Peep? Past? Post? Pest? P...d (oh no, that's six letters)
Pooh?(see dog dirt thread)

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Thanks Will...it's one of them :D

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

dont know wot all this griping is about ive had a couple of posts deleted had my hands slapped a couple of times, but here i am still posting, wot is it A MAN THING// take it like the MEN i assumed you were ///

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Isn't it also funny how some words are deemed to cause offence whilst others aren't? One senior member of Accyweb describes himself, in his signature, as being from or living in "Krautland". Surely this could cause offence to certain people but is allowed. Perhaps our moderators have attended the football referees course on how to be consistent in your judgement.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Hiya Mez,

It's not that at all, I don't care if my posts are deleted. It's just that I'd like to know they've been deleted then I don't have to spend a lot of time looking for them next day!

I also don't like superior beings who impose their will at random.

Just a note Mez, take it like the MEN i assumed you were - "Never assume...check it" :D :D :D :D

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

If you don't like the way the forum is run then why not find one you do like. But don't slam the door on your way out lads :)

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

OOOhhhh my God....here we go again! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Quotes by Kipax in "The Great Debate" , a thread in the football forum. Funny how some peoples point of view can change in such short space of time.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Oh look mummy. there ganging up on me.
now they are even searching other parts of the forums to find somehting against me and then bringing it in here..


GET A LIFE!

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Maybe this should be left alone now....Lets debate like gentlemen and not children or yobs out for bit pain at the expense of others.

We all change are opinions from time to time, me more than most. I can't help thinking to myself how good it's been to have access to this site and all its people.

All individuals, all opinionated, all spirited and all decent....B***S to PC...let’s just having some fun and a decent debate.

I am on no body’s side in this matter. But I expect to discuss things openly with anyone posting with out the bloody situation turning into an interpersonal scoring match.....

That's it; I've said my bit, now lets get a grip and move on......

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I've tried to do that more than once Doug. I'll try harder this time.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

I like to ramble on sometimes, but thank you for your consideration. It shows that people are prepared to listen and that’s what’s important here.

Being able to accept criticism for ones opinions is a great asset to ones character, regrettably it’s also one of my own personal failings in life….

Talk about double standards......eh

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Yes Doug, listening to others is one thing but accepting criticism is another. Once did a Technical Instructors course that tore everyone and their work to bits. It was meant to teach you to listen to and accept criticism, and it worked, well with me at least.
I did interview and assessment courses, where my assessment technique was always called into question and criticised.

Actually its quite character building, and after a while (after you get some practical experience), it makes you realise that without the ability to stand back and criticise yourself, its easy to make a fool of yourself.

It's all part of life's rich pattern so I'm told, but without it you loose your objectivity. However, we are all human, and we all make mistakes. That too is part of life's rich pattern.

I, just as you, have failings, but hopefully we can see beyond them.

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Your a gentleman sir,

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

yes but if your the boss of some, whatever no; & you can still grin & bear it who is the better man

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

Can anyone translate that for me please?

Re: Deletions of Threads and Postings
 

:D Post an amused response to someone's nice comeback and receive negative Karma? :p