|
The Internet and Politics?
Hi all,
I'm studying in Sheffield, architecture and planning, currently putting together an essay about the use of the internet in public participation for planning and I was directed to your forum by a colleage who said it was a great way to see an interactive debate about planning and politics. (She was one of the team who put on art installations around 'Accy' during early 2006, there was lots of orange.) From what I can work out there are some politians and council workers who log on to debate with the public. I'd like to ask what people think of this process? I have one comment, taken from a thread which says 'Glad you could show yourself at last Gayle, It's a pity you could not be straight forward like Graham Jones who gained much respect on this site simply by being honest.' wondering if people agree? who Graham Jones is? do you feel like the councillors listen to your comments, if not act on them? Would it be better to have more people like this online? Your responses would be really interesting. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Not quite sure how to answer this but I feel I must since you have brought me into it.
For a start you have to put that quote in context - at the time (and bear in mind this is 18 months ago) I was unaware of this site until it was brought to my attention because there were quite a few people discussing a project that I was involved in (the Panopticon project of which I know you are aware). There was a certain amount of hostility towards me at the time because the project was controversial and I was the public face of it around here. You can understand my reluctance to come onto the site to face the hostility. However, after viewing the site for a couple of weeks I did come on to face the music and I hope, have become accepted because of it. I am not a politician - I never was - if truth be told I did not have to justify myself in this way. Just as you would not butt into a conversation that someone was having on a bus there was no absolute need for me to butt into this conversation. If you are a politician however, this is a very effective way of talking to the people of the town but I don't think it should be seen as obligatory. If a politician is comfortable taking this route then that is fine but if not it should not necessarily be seen as a failing if they don't want to. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Once she'd stopped telling us off for spelling her name wrong ;) Gayle turned out to be a worthwhile member of the AccyWeb.
Our local MP is a member of this site too and does pop up from time to time to give us snippets of information - which is nice. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
Sadly though the Conservative leader of the council Peter Britcliffe, hasn't posted yet, though allegedly he does read it.;) |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Well she isn't and she hasn't been but she might have been, given half a chance.
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Yes but are they not MPs?
I've just been arguing with the gas board, I'm in nitpicking mode.:p |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
Quote:
The process is wonderful, one person posts something, then someone else posts something, then perhaps the first person or even a third person posts something, the answers given may be haphazard and never follow any form of logic, but the process is perfect. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When you finally finish with your learning which I hope will be successful, don't forget about us, all information has a price so when you start work don't just concentrate on paying off your student loan, bung a bit to accyweb as well.:) |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Tealeaf, I think you're being a bit pedantic (no change there then). Ok I stood for council but I wasn't a politician and am still not. I take part in the discussions but I can have no influence over any policies or judgements that are made - I am not in that position of authority/power/whatever you want to call it. My views are valid, as are everyone else's on here.
I am not standing for council again (certainly not in May next year) so I am not even remotely a politician now, even if you want to argue the point that temporarily I was politically inclined. I should say though, that I am aware of the Sheffield student's work - only vaguely mind! My colleague at MPA is supporting them. This involvement with Accrington has come about directly because of the Panopticon project. When all the bruhaha was going on this time 18 months ago, my colleague visited the university to give a talk about the project. They became interested in Accrington and wanted to use it as a case study, especially as there was resistence to the sculpture and to regeneration in other areas (Project Phoenix, Broadway, the Health Centre, etc). Before you all jump down my throat on this one, take a step outside and look at the way things are portrayed from an outsiders angle and we do appear to reject regeneration. Yes, we say we want improvements but you only have to look at the amount of negativity on this site (mostly justified, I won't argue with you on that) to see what sort of impression it creates. I didn't come right out and say that I was aware of the project at first because I wasn't 100% sure it was the same thing and I had to check in at the office first. Also, I know very little about it as it's not something that I'm directly related to so please don't ask me any questions about it. Oh, and finally, I didn't know that I was going to be dragged into this debate and I don't think that the student in question is aware of who I am in relation to the project. In fact, I only answered because I was quoted. I think the quote is in the big Panopticon debate thread that we had or possibly my initial introduction thread. It's certainly early on. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
I would have thought that if the overall context of this students study was that of opposition to regeneration schemes in certain north west towns, than Accy is no exception. In Liverpool, Darwen, Nelson and Hyndburn there has been huge opposition to Prescott's scheme to demolish large swathes of Victorian housing stock.
The debate that we all had over the Panopticon is a completely seperate issue which rested upon the choice of design (lets face it, they were all rubbish) and the suitability of location. The Coppice was, and is, simply the wrong place to dump a large structure. There was never, nor has there ever been any argument about the need to rejuvenate certain parts of the town, nor about a bit more art around the place. It has simply been about bureaucratic misjudgements and cock-ups. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
I agree that there has never been an argument about the NEED for regeneration but what I'm asking you to do is look at the discussions from an outsiders perspective and it does seem negative. For instance - we agree that Broadway needs rejuvenating but everyone (including myself) is continually having a go at the way it's being done. Add that to the negativity about the Panopticon project and the discussions about project phoenix and you can see how people may get the wrong impression.
Now I can see that it's not the same people arguing against all of the projects but taking things as a whole there does give the appearance of a resistence to change and to regeneration. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
The Pantopican being the most visible and high profile, and the one that received the most public critisism. Broadway? Relatively expensive, shoddily designed and implemented. Very unimaganitive. New design can be good, this was just bad, as well as not having any bearing to it's locality. We, as tax payers have every right to critique it. Clearing Victorian stone built terraced houses, which in more forward thinking areas of the country are being improved and renovated, and which are seen as an asset, being replaced with inferior new buildings, is in my mind shortsighted. As can be exampled by the demolition of the twenty year old houses at Church. Which coincidentally were built on the site of demolished Victorian terraced houses. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
I don't disagree with you Garinda, the things that we've had a go at are justified. I'm just trying to look at it from an outsiders perspective and all of the projects that are concerned with regeneration are knocked - rightly so for the most part - but knocked nevertheless! Collectively it can look like a negative view of regeneration.
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
It's probably down to false impressions. Like many people I am all in favour of improvements but HBC seem to waste an awful lot of money improving things to a state where they end up far worse than they were in the first place.
Let's take Broadway as an example. Now if you want to know the absolute heart and dead centre of Accy (sit down that man who said Burnley Road Crem!) I'm sure many people would immediately think of Broadway/Abbey Street/Peel Street/Blackburn Rd. So what do we have here? A bus station which isn't big enough for the number of buses trying to fit into it, necessitating some buses parking outside of shops and others parking up a side street. A market cramped and squashed into what was once half of the bus station in order to free up the land where the market once was. On the land where the market once was we have a development which seems too large and overpowering for the area, and within which there are cheapo shop and empty retail premises despite there already being empty retail premises in other parts of the town centre. Then we come to the joys and delights of Broadway - will they ever finish retarmaccing the blessed thing? Is it attractive? Personally I don't think so. Compared to Blackburn's Church Street it is a very poor relation. Project Phoenix aka the regeneration of the area of Accrington along Blackburn Road - the haphazzard way the home owners there were treated is appalling. Some received £30,000 when their homes were purchased by the council. Others only received loans which they will have to pay back should they decide to move from the area?!? It almost sounds like 'Hotel California' - you can check out any time you like but you can never leave. There has been talk of "doing something" with the canalside area of Church incorporating the old Commercial Hotel - but what and when will anything ever be done? Then we come to the dreaded Panopticon which was proposed for the top of the Coppice. Amongst the many objections raised was the fear that it would attract more vandalism and the council doesn't seem to be able to prevent vandalism of what we've already got up there - plus the ideas and suggestions put forth would of themselves seem more like vandalising an area dear to the hearts of many of us who grew up here and loved playing up't'Coppie as children or taking our dogs or indeed ourselves for walks up there as adults. We were told it needed to be on the highest point in the area so that it could be seen from afar - but then one of the ideas put forward would only have been seen from the air, which no doubt the local pigeons would have apppreciated but it would have carved up the land into concentric circles of earth with ditches in between which would surely have become waterlogged and present a danger to anyone who may have slipped whilst climbing over and "enjoyng" the 'High Form'. Why couldn't we have had something decent in a better location? Yet we were told almost in the way a frustratd parent tells a naughty chid. "You'll have what you're given and like it or you'll have nothing at all." As Tealef said we're not against the concept of regeneration. What we are against is being fobbed of with something totally inappropriate. Personally, as I have said several times in the past, I would love to see the area around Oak Street/Grange Lane improved and a feature made of the river there. It could be made beautiful, instead it languishes there forgotten and ignored. Why can't that be rejeuvinated and a Panopticon incorporated there? It could become a focal point. And while we're at it maybe they could build somewhere to house the old Arndale Clock that this website was (according to the local rag) supposed to have saved from destruction over two years ago but which has still not seen the light of day since it was removed to make way for that open air under cover cafe. We were once referred to as the "All Our Yesterdays Brigade" but I don't feel that is a valid criticism. We are not against change, just against change for the worse. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
:engsmil: You are right on the button garinda, any fool except a local urk I will not call them council members, any fool can be one of them, I live in a house built in 1840 it was due for demolition in 1974 via C.P.O., my next door neighbour and I fought the council and won, with costs,only four are left in what is now a 'conservation' area.
My advice for what it is worth is fight them, you have nothing to loose only your 'house', my sources inform me that the area round Monk st, Emma St are in the pipeline, good houses with nothing wrong with them, except the geography 'hope that does not cause offence'. To knock a perfectly good structure down to replace it with rubbish is stupid, but 'councillors' are only interested in getting their names in the record books, not people. This opinion is mine only. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Its only when you travel round the country. that you realise just how unique our Victorian terraced housing stock is.
Its almost unique to this part of Lancashire that they are nearly all stone built, even as near by as Manchester most of them are brick built. Another unique aspect of their design is the continuous slope of their roofs when they are built onto a steep hill, as can be seen on the streets leading down to Manchester Road. You don't see it anywhere else in the country. This should be preserved and cherished, and not demolished to make way for more unattractive, cheaply built housing, no different from anywhere else in the country, many of which are then subsequently demolished because they cannot stand the test of time. There will be so few in the future, rich Londoners will discover their charm and have them as holiday homes...just like Pendy has.;) |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
I agree with you there 100% Rindy.
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Lol, whoever the person is who gave me karma for the above post, thank you.
The comment said - 'agree 10%' Whoever you are, I'll try and fulfil the other 90% next time.;) |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
Do they think that a bit of wood will stop everyone else from breathing in the smoke. I don't think so. If you ask me it's about the money they make in rent for the site. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
There are yet more threads somewhere that mention the owners, and the smoking.:D |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
....and at least they provide safe ashtrays outside, unlike the council.
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Ianto.W. the houses on monk street Emma st ,Russia,Persia and India street are all coming down but not under the phoenix project ,they come down under the princess st project which is due to start in 2008 (if there is enough money)
I for 1 will be glad they are comming down |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
There was a renewal program where terraced houses were being brought up to a certain standard internally and the exteriors sandblasted; troughings, window and door frames painted; garden walls rebuilt if necessry and little matching sets of railings and garden gates added. The results were very pleasing to the eye and good solid Victorian terraced housing has been given a new lease of life. Why couldn't the same have been done in the Phoenix area? That all seems to have fizzled out now with some streets only partially done which looks silly.
You know that Glaxy ad which says "Why have cotton when you can have silk?" sometimes I think HBC's motto should be "Why have solid oak when you can have thinly veneered chipboard?" However, lets wait and see what goes up where the demolition has taken place. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
mmmmmmmmmmm HEAVEN. lol :D EDIT Mustn't forget the betting shops either. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
We could do with a cybercafe in town too
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
However, failing that, a cybercafe is just the sort of thing that Accy needs...maybe combined with a decent independent bookshop. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
we nearly got that with the stag we had a wireless network running for a while shame really
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
I hope everyone gets market value for their property but is there ever enough money? |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Well as i only rent i am not that bothered over it
If i owned the house i might think diffrent |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Anyway, just getting back to the main topic, that of project phoenix/elevate/whatever. It would appear to me that in other parts of Lancashire, imagination has been used in the regeneration of old housing stock.
Have a look at this: http://www.sd-commission.org.uk/comm...php/00043.html My understanding is that these brick-built terraced houses were in a far worse state than the stone-built ones in West Accy; nevertheless, with a little bit of imagination and investment, someone has shown how to bring out the best in run down assets. What did we do in Hyndburn? Well, immeadiatly to the west of the West Accy demolition area is the new, obnoxious housing estate on the site of the old reservoir. Would it not have been better to have only partially drained that, created a small parkland around it, demolished Rastricks foundry and then done some radical work on the existing housing? The new estate on the site of the old reservoir is not yet complete, but is already an eyesore. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Just mooching about on the net I came across this.
http://www.pinkus.co.uk/propmonth.asp?ID=890 A currently empty property built under the 1965 Town Hall extension. Is the council the lease holder? If so, the only people who could probably afford to rent it are another charity shop, because they get reduced rates and tax breaks. With so many new and old retail properties empty what are the council doing? Building more behind Scaitcliffe House. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
This is exactly the sort of reason why we didn't need yet more shops on what was once a decent market site.
I'll pop down with my camera tomorrow. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
£26,750 Per Annum + vat
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Incredible. Makes you wonder how all the pound shops survive.
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
..The rent may be even more...the "next" rent revue is (was) 26th June 2006, according to the Estate Agents website (it must be twinned with that out of date pile of crap run by HBC). Rent works out at about 19 quid psf, which seems exorbitant, especially given a third of the floorspace is basement. Chuck in the business rates - probably another 8 quid psf and you have a very expensive piece of rented real estate. If this is the market rate around down-town Accy, no wonder so much retail space is vacant.
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
Does anyone know if the leaseholder is actually HBC? If so, it makes all the new retail properties still unoccupied, with more under construction, even more risible. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
:o Or freeholder. |
Re: The Internet and Politics?
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT. The time now is 20:10. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 2003-2013 AccringtonWeb.com