was it better back then?
 

the thread about "School Leaving Age" got me thinking, reasons behind it etc, i left at 15 back in 63, most people did, some stayed on n extra year. everyone that left got employment no problem, all that wanted it anyway n most did. not 1 of the crowd i ran with went to uni, in fact i didn't know anyone that did. main reason i think was parents could not afford fer kids to do so. mine were n example of this. not that i'm bitching,its just the way things were.labouring,factory work,pits,shop work, all kinds of apprenticeships were all available, whilst today there seems ****** all by comparison:eek:so my question is- was it better back then? i think so, but what do you?

Re: was it better back then?
 

I left school in 1962....it was one of those 'bulge' years, but most of my peers got jobs of some description.
Like you, Cashy, I didn't know anyone who went to Uni.......you had to be really something to do that......I think most of our ambitions were quite lowly.
I think we were better prepared for life.......the girls could cook basic stuff, and we could sew as well......and the boys had had 4 years of woodwork so most of them had some practical skills.
Yes, I do think it was better....mainly because we knew that whatever it was we wanted out of life had to be earned.....I don't recall there being any 'rights' other than that of drawing breath and paying taxes.
I'm pretty sure there will be some younger members on here who will disagree though:D

Re: was it better back then?
 

As far as the availability of employment went, it was definitely better. It was also better in that those with the aptitude could get excellent apprenticeships that made them into real craftsmen after 6 or 7 years learning "on the job". I don't believe you can compare that with 18 months at college, which seems to be the norm today.

I don't think not going on to uni was, really, a matter of what parents could afford. There was a very good grant system in place then, unlike today, and though parents had to contribute it was graduated according to their earnings and more found they could afford it than you would think. I really think it was a matter of expectations. There was no tradition of further education amongst the Working Class, prior to the 1944 Education Act, and it took quite a long time for that to change.

Now, I think the pendulum has swung too far the other way. A lot of schools aspire to have as many pupils as possible entering uni and it's looked on as the only real goal to aim for. That's a shame because not everyone is academic by nature and being of a practical, rather than academic, nature doesn't mean being less intelligent or less worthy. That comes back, again, to the demise of the full apprenticeship which was an education in itself.

So yes, Cashy, on the whole I agree with you.

Re: was it better back then?
 

Of course it was better back then; we were younger:theband:

Re: was it better back then?
 

i think it as better, because we knew no better
i left school 1962 and as has been said plenty of work for all those who wanted it.
all different types of jobs were available
you could be a painter and decorator one day and a baker the next
are so we thought.
never seemed much to moan about.
plenty of money, course there werent much to spend it on
but yes it was better


:hehetable

Re: was it better back then?
 

I left school in 1954.................Rhyddings.....We were educated to do menial jobs.
I know that most of my friends had after school jobs...and work at the weekend also for a few extra bob.
Homework...........never had any.
Live was much safer then............Policemen had authority.

Re: was it better back then?
 

You are right Beechy.... we didn't have the expectations that the young people today have, because we weren't told to have those expectations.

It was a different time, almost a different world.....and we were grateful for what we had. That doesn't mean that we didn't strive for something better.....and we certainly wanted our own children to have better than we had.......otherwise the world would go backwards......but I do think we have to realise that not everyone is academic....and if they were who would do the so called 'menial tasks'........we have to see that talent comes in many guises, and practical skills must be valued alongside the academic stuff.
After all what kind of world would it be if we were all mathematicians and scientists.....no builders, joiners, binmen etc? Pretty poor would be my answer.

Re: was it better back then?
 

expectation was certainly less, never can remember anyone having much trouble getting a mortgage though? even got me first off the council, i think its really hard fer kids these days to get started in comparison.

Re: was it better back then?
 

I think it was harder to get a mortgage then.
In 1961 when buying my first house, you had to have been saving with a building Society for at least a year just to get an interview to apply for a mortgage, and then a 20% deposit was mandatory.

Re: was it better back then?
 

ah my first was early 70s n it was very easy, just went to the council n got a 90% mortgage no problem. so my deposit was only £200.:) as the house was £2000.

Re: was it better back then?
 

House prices rose then too - I paid £1,100 for a house on Dill Hall opposite the cemetary- but in those days I could make a pound feed us from Monday to Thursday. Thursday was always Pancake day - all I had left was flour, eggs, milk and lard :D

Re: was it better back then?
 

I too think it was much better then,I remember ,,when we got married in 1961 we rented a 2up and 2down house,,15 shillings=75p A WEEK....We were most disgusted when they put it up to £1 ...and it took us another 3 years to finally buy our own house(with a bathroom)ooh that was posh...£399..00

Re: was it better back then?
 

agree it was not easy but at least those who wanted had work n could put food on the table.:) don't think that is the case today.?

Re: was it better back then?
 

You got a bargain there granny - at £1,100 mine had an outside loo:eek:

Re: was it better back then?
 

oooops typing error that should read £899..00

Re: was it better back then?
 

erm that would have been a bargain Margargaret...lol,,,add an extra £500.00.....

Re: was it better back then?
 

Still a bargain at that

Re: was it better back then?
 

Paid 400 pounds for my first house on Grange st Accy
twas allright until i got caught carrying a new tin bath up Cotton st
Laugh i nearly died :thankya:

Re: was it better back then?
 

I left school in 1972 age 15. I had no choice in the matter. my dad & Mam wouldn't let e stay on for the extra year. had to get out in the big wide world and earn some money.
7 pounds a week was my first pay pkt.

Re: was it better back then?
 

People tend to look back with rose tinted glasses but the truth of the matter is that on balance and in spite of everything we are all better off in all sorts of ways today than we were in yesteryear.

There were apprenticeships for those who could get them and there was plenty of work for those who didn’t. But apprentices’ wages were minimal and many spent the first two years going to the stores for a ‘long stand’ or acting as a gopher for the skilled worker. Why? Because that is what happened to the skilled worker when he was an apprentice. So it was a ‘get your own back’ time. This attitude also prevailed in none apprentice jobs, except that it didn’t last all that long. The boss wasn’t going to pay someone for standing around as the butt of workers’ childish jokes.

As I recall, back in the early fifties, in order to secure an apprenticeship you had to leave school with at least a School Certificate above a certain standard and I’m pretty sure you had to be 16. An employer would not take on an apprentice if the person could not demonstrate an acceptable level of education. An apprentice would learn his trade by attending the local college for one day a week and then two, three or even four evenings a week in ‘night school’. The rest of the time he would get on the job training - eventually. However when an apprentice had served his time he came out as a fully skilled plumber, painter, electrician, engineer, tool maker or whatever who knew his job thoroughly and could slot into a job.
With the pressure of assisting in the family budget, a priority with many families especially those whose father had been killed in the war, many kids left school at 15 to get a job. So the majority had no option of further education even if they wanted it and no chance of an apprenticeship. Many really bright kids were consigned to the scrap heap purely because of family finances. A few lucky ones managed to get a scholarship to schools like St Mary’s College and QEGS in Blackburn and the Grammar School in Accrington (wasn’t there a Grammar School in Clitheroe?) but even then they had to find the money for expensive school uniforms, sports clothing, some text books plus a variety of writing implements, rulers set squares, compasses, protractors, slide rules and log tables etc. My brother who went to St Mary’s College got a free exercise book for each subject then thereafter had to buy a replacement when it became full.

The only good part of yesteryear was the integrity of the people, a decent police presence, no PC do gooders and justice was seen to be done. Public transport was more than adequate and families sat together at meal times. You could leave your money in an empty milk bottle on the doorstep confident that when the milkman delivered your milk the money would be waiting for him. You could go shopping or even to work and leave the house doors unlocked. No one would burgle you.

The post arrived at the crack of dawn or at least no later than around 8:00 am and there were a second delivery after noon.

Re: was it better back then?
 

Re: was it better back then?
 

The School Certificate ceased to exist in 1951 when O Levels took over. It was not necessary, in most cases, for an apprentice to have O Levels and many did start at age 15. I had first hand knowledge of that in several boys I grew up with and knew very well, in West End, who left school (Rhyddings in most cases) at 15 and went straight into apprenticeships. I was still in "second-hand" touch with one of them until our respective mothers, who were friends, both died a few years ago. He didn't have any school qualifications but he's a very successful builder today.

Re: was it better back then?
 

Obviously I have no experience of 'back then' but I have a perspective of today that I can share that most people wont have unless they are still studying, single, no kids and live with their parents at the age of 40+, and no disrespect to those that are like that! I know some do exist.

I was not pushed to work hard at primary school, I was just fortunate that I was bright and was encouraged to carry on being so. I got to school, hit my terrible teens and rebelled a bit. Discipline was weak because most of the time I was clever enough to dodge bumping into the teachers that were keeping an eye out for me long enough for them to forget. Nobody taught me about uni, nobody guided me to a career though most people seemed to talk a lot about what college they were going to go to when it got to the end of our final year and I was planning on going to blackburn college to do music. No career in mind because nobody had ever mentioned that.

Changed my mind at the very last minute and did 4 random A levels, had no guidance on which 4 to pick. Dropped out of two because I realised they weren't for me and picked up another two in the second year, which suffered when I lost a friend due to cancer and didn't know who to turn to for support. College support was useless. Scraped through and passed them all though I still had no idea about uni until applications began. Decided I should do law because it was the only thing I enjoyed at college (until I started art), got rejected from all my choices because I didn't have the right A levels.

Went on a summer course, received excellent support from uni and did well, and went on to study law. Now realise that it is a lot of hard work, I never have money and I am entering into one pof the most competitive professions out there.

Would I like to try out the lifestyle of a woman in the 50's and dote on my husband and children and be happy with that? I don't know.

But life now isn't easy with the competition over jobs, juggling family commitments and generally just getting anywhere. Technology is frightening powerful and it's not slowing down and to be quite honest, when 10 year olds are stabbing each other over their pocket money and people are blowing themselves up in the name of a loving God well, I don't know what to think...

but that is life isn't it, and we're pretty much stuck with it. I can't change the world by myself so I'll just have to make the most of what I have.

Re: was it better back then?
 

but you have summat many do not- Self Motivation, you will be fine n yes it is hard work, but worth it. back then standards were much lower expectation wise, but in my time, i always knew i could get any job i fancied within reason, therefore my life was more secure, thats what i base my "better" on.:)

Re: was it better back then?
 

I think the difference is that today we have a much more deluded youth. It's almost like we are copying the idea of the American dream.

And we all know what happened in Of Mice and Men... even the deluded ones should know seen as it is in the school syllabus ;)

Re: was it better back then?
 

i think the delusion n the job situation go hand in hand, some kids don't wish to go on to uni/ or aint clever enough, or have family reasons,etc,

Re: was it better back then?
 

I think beechy hit the nail on the head. Times change and we have different expectations now. You move with the times.

We can look at the past with rose tinted glasses and it seems great, but to be honest, would you go back there now, as an adult, knowing what you know now?

Re: was it better back then?
 

probably would cazzer, i live in a time warp anyway.;)

Re: was it better back then?
 

I left Accy Grammar in 1961 at the ripe old age of 15....whilst most of the class stayed on an extra year.....Our family was poor and my pocket money was nil......so I wanted to earn a bob or two.
Agreed......there was plenty of work then for people that wanted it......and those days employers didn,t ask for someone who was experienced at 15.....like they do now.I worked for a short time at the new Maypole supermarket that was just opening on Broadway...then dad got me a job at Bulloughs as a turner where I stayed until I was 23 before moving to Australia.....I remember most Saturday nights at the Con Club or at Knowles street....sitting like a wallflower on the sides....I was a shy lad.....Doesn,t bear thinking about now.....lol

Re: was it better back then?
 

It makes me laugh when they ask for this that and the other for a job position these days. "must be fluent" in this that and the other. Experience in this and that... would suit school leaver... Don't they realise that some of us oldies have all this and life skills as well? Or do they just want to pay minimum wage for a 16 year old?
Just me having a gripe!

Re: was it better back then?
 

its a crazy world cazzer, whilst in many cases they do want to pay peanuts, me lad is told frequently hes over qualified when he applies fer positions.:confused:

Re: was it better back then?
 

Cashy... i think we are all in a time warp to some extent... still feel in me head that i'm the same person I was at 16, then the arthritis, grandkids and other stuff brings me down to earth, lol!:D

Re: was it better back then?
 

Re: was it better back then?
 

The greatest joy about being an oldie is not being expected to work
Thirty five years full time was enough for me - glad to be out of the rat race:)

Re: was it better back then?
 

well yes thats a positive, but fer me i can see a downside,-- this year alone i have been to 5 funerals (lifelong friends) so i reckon theres gonna be no ****** left to come to mine.:D

Re: was it better back then?
 

Know what you mean cashy , guess its a sign of age, for no known reason you start to read the obituaries and then you start to recognize names and think "****** me" I know him/her,

just as an aside , this is one reason why the local press is important to preserve in the internet age ......its the only place where you get information like this .....a buddy of mine from Australia recently sent me a link to the Accy Observer about an old teacher from Accy tech who had passed on .