East lancs regiment?
 

Does anyone know what the uniform was like for WW1, i have a pic of a my great grandad in his uniform, but no hat :( and havent a clue which regiment he was from. I presume its the east lancs, as im sure he lived in lancashire, but i may be wrong:(

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

If you post it I bet Retlaw will be able to tell you.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Tried to but it wont show ....stupid red cross appears:(

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Attachment 12916

done it:D

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Doubt if you'll be able to tell from that photo panther, my granddad was in the first world war and he lived in Ossy, but I'm sure he wasn't in the East Lances Reg. My Dad served in WW2 lived in Ossy and was in the Lancashire Fusiliers

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Most WW1 army uniforms were very similar amongst all regiments, on his left shoulder epaulette, there is a flash can you make out what it is. It is very early in the war, as the belt he is wearing is an early pattern.

If you send his name, I will look in the East Lancs records.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Hi Panther,

Proud looking Man, hope you find his regiment, if you have is name and the area he lived in I’ll be happy to look on Ancestry for you for he Military Records although I think Retlaw will beat me to it.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Retlaw, can you identify these collar badges for me, it’s most likely Service Corp of the West Yorkshire regiment, the gent wearing them is my great uncle, Harold Whitaker, a Shipley (North Brieley) man who died of wounds in 1922 at the age of 26.

I can't seem to find any other information myself so any help will be a blessing.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Doug.
Thats a new one on me, that collar badge, can't find it in my books, but putting the two together It looks like Pioneer, Rifle Brigade.
Have you tried the newspapers where he died, there may be an obituary in the local papers which may give a hint to his war service.
You won't find his Service papers on ancestry, W's have'nt been done yet,
the medal cards show several Harold Whitakers in Yorkshire Reiments, and one as Pte. DM2/118264. A.S.C.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Panther, I've had a closer look at that badge on his shoulder, not sure what it is but its definitely not East Lancs.
Whats his name, where did he live.

This is an East Lancs Badge.
Attachment 12922

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Who was your Granddad who served in WW1, and lived in Ossy.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Cheer’s Retlaw, Yes I’ve seen the four or five possible on Ancestry but without indentifying the collar badges I can’t him down to a regiment but thank you for having a look, I’ll try one of the WW1 forums and see if anything comes back. I’m pleased that the W’s haven’t been done yet as it gives me something to look forward too, I’m also hoping to get over to Shipley at sometime to search local records.

I wanted to put his service number and Regiment on a wooden remembrance cross for Sunday, we have three to place this year, one each for the first and the second world war and one more recent event in Afghanistan…

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

One of my Grandads was definitely in the Lancashire Fusiliers (on his shoulder in this pic there is the lettering LF) - the other Grandad was in the Air Force I think.

But that was WW2 so probably not much help to you Panther.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Try this site, if they can't help no one can.
The Western Front Association Front Forum: discussing The Great War 1914-18 • Index page

When the W's come on line remeber there are two sets of records.
The British Army Service Records.
The British Army Pension Records.
As he died in 1922, presumably from war wounds he may have been in receipt of a pension.
Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Retlaw, he was called John James Farrer, after the war he had a property repairs business, his workshop was where the car park is now on Lord Street Ossy, next to the civic theatre, he was also a fireman, there is a photo of him with the other men in the service at the time, in the civic societies place opposite the civic theater. he died in 1934 he never really recovered from being gassed during the war

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

John James Farrer
Driver. 50766. Royal Field Artillery.

AVL-18 shows him as John James Farrar 12 Stonebridge Lane, Oswaldtwistle.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Thats just it retlaw, i dont know his name only his surname - Hardman.
Iv asked my mum but she says she hasnt a clue as she only referred him as grandad, and i cant ask my grandma who was the daughter has she died years ago :(...or where they lived:o
Thats why im stuck. I dont even know what his wife was called , only her maiden name which is webster. my great grandma., all i know is his daughters were called Minnie , Annie, and Ada (my grandma)
Not much to go on is there?:confused:

Thats why i would love to know where my roots comes from:)

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Do you know when your grandma was born and where ?

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

I have no Francis Hunt in my files, living in Greater Accrington.
Here's your picture minus scratches.
Looks like a WW2 uniform to me.
Retlaw.

Attachment 12927

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Bolton I think, 1914 in september (I think:o)

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

lol, that name sounds familiar :rolleyes:

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

There was a James Hardman who married a Polly Webster in Farnworth 1910, possible ?

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Might have been Hindley :)

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Nay Enamum, the chap died in 1934, tha nod thad owd, or are you.

Retlaw.
:hidewall:

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Hey it could be:eek:
there cant be that many hardman and websters can there?...oh cheers lancsdave;)
Is there any way ya could find my great grandad on the war records then?, or is that still gonna be hard?

Ohhh i getting excited now:D:happy8:

what else could ya find about em ?, if thats not too much trouble:rolleyz8:

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

I'm a mere amateur compared to Retlaw, military records are the domain of the experts. :)

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

hindley??

no im sure it was bolton...my grannies sisters name are annie and minnie, i think they are about 4 years older than my grandma or younger:confused:

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

There were 84 James Hardman's, collecting medals for service during WW1.
To search the unburnt records, I will need some definite place of birth, or residence, otherwise it could be all day of a job, and then no nearer.
Let me know when you have something definite.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

I like that, ex perts, being an ex Fireman, I am an ex spurt.
Only trouble, some body turned the tap off.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

cheers for trying retlaw, will ask around the other relatives see if they know summat;)

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Thanks for that Retlaw, although can't remember my dad ever living in Stonebridge Lane, but there again my granddad may have lived there before he was married, My Dad was born in Jan 1920, don't actually know when my grandparents were married, but they did live in Blackburn when my Dad was born and moved to Monarch Street when he was around 6 months old and he lived there until he died in 2003. Insidentaly I still have both my Dads and Granddads medals.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

You mean my name sounds failiar, I'm on Blackburn 247 under my own name, as Ithink you are

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

I've checked the British Service records and the Pension records for Farrer/Farrar, John James -- James John, James or John. Nothing his records must have been amongst those detroyed in the blitz of 1940.

Look after those medals

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

I'v every intention of doing that, Retlaw, there in m safety deposite box at the bank

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Hi Retlaw,

I believe he was with the West Yorkshire Regiment; 21st Battalion. The Attached Photo shows what I think is his Medal Card. I need help to decipher what information is on the medal card; it’s totally meaningless to me, any ideas Retlaw.

Thanks Doug.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Private 21/475. 21st Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment.
He was awarded the Victory Medal & the British War Medal.
Discharged Army Order 29/19. (para 392)
means Kings Regulations, paragraph 392 part (XVI)
no longer fit for active service.
Just as a matter of interest the Kings Regulations is over 1 1/2" thick, very small print, and there are 1 to XXVIII, reasons for discharge in that paragraph alone.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

The uniform & cap badge is definitely Royal Field Artillery.

Yo don't give a name or residence, if its Blackburn/Darwen, you will have to check the news paper records in Blackburn Library.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Sergeant Walter Hanson Buckley 1138.

5th East Lancs Battery
Royal Field Artillery
1st East Lancs Brigade

Residence - probably Accrington.

Joined 1914
Served in North Africa, Palestine, Gallipolis, Middle East.
Probably Europe 1918.
Russia.
Demobbed probably 1921.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

He is among the mistery's. nothing the news papers.
There are no Attestation papers at Kew either.
There is only one record in my files, St Peters Church R-O-H
Not in the Absent Voters list of 1918.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Thanks for trying.

It’s almost as if he didn’t exist except that I have a number of photographs that proves otherwise. Photos in North Africa, Palestine and even one in the George Arthur Ward, Ampton Hall Hospital, Suffolk. 24th May 1918 where he was being treated after being wounded.

I know that most of the army records for WWI were destroyed by fire and damaged by water in WWII so I guess his must have been amongst them.

St Peters Church? Where is that?

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

To me the collar badge looks like it comprises a pick-axe and a rifle. Now I know that there were Tunnellers' Companies during WWI and maybe he served in one of those. The badge doesn't appear in my book either.
Good Luck,
davidf

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

[quote=Doug;647846]Retlaw, can you identify these collar badges for me, it’s most likely Service Corp of the West Yorkshire regiment, the gent wearing them is my great uncle, Harold Whitaker, a Shipley (North Brieley) man who died of wounds in 1922 at the age of 26.

The Collar badges are for the Pioneer Battalion

The Medal cards at Kew, WO372 series, show 5 Harold Whitakers
in the Yorkshires.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Hi Doug, I tried to help last week but my contribution doesn't seem to have taken. The collar "dogs" look like a pickaxe and a rifle to me. From doing family history research on my wife's late father I have learned that there were Tunnelers' Companies in north France during the First World War - I think that they were part of the Royal Engineers and should have worn their cap badge.
davidf

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Most of the tunnelers in WW1 were colliers, they didn't wear any badges or insignia which would identify them to the Germans. They worked in secret for 12 months, digging tunnels, and laid nearly a million tons of explosies in 5 big mines, which blew up Hawthorn Ridge. 10,000 jerry casulties in one hell of a bang. The biggest man made explosion, before Hiroshima.
They also set off mines on the Somme on the 1st July 1916, a silly argument between high ranking officers, and the mines were detonated 10 minutes too soon, giving jerry ample time to get ready

The collar dogs of a rifle and pickaxe, are a pioneer section.

Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

My Grandad was in the Bantams Retlaw, would I find his records in with the Lancs Fusiliers do you think?

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

It depends where you look and what information you already have.
I was at Wellington Barracks last week, and you will get no help there for some time, the place is closed to the public, they are opening a new museum in the center of Bury in March next year.

First I would search the medal cards, to see if he was still in the Bury Bantams at the end of the war, then try the burnt and unburnt records.
If his records survive, they should tell if and when he was ever wounded, who his next of kin were, if he was wounded, then a search of the local newspapers might reveal even more info.
Retlaw.

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Thanks Retlaw,
I've got an inkling that he may have been part of a joint Lancs/Cheshire unit, would they still be listed under Bury Bantams?

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

The battalion know as the Bury Bantams, was one of the Lancs Fusilier battalions.
I have no record of there ever having been, a Lancs/Cheshire unit.
London Scottish, Liverpool Irish, York & Lancs, Notts & Derby, yes,
but never a Lancs/Cheshire unit.

Retlaw

Re: East lancs regiment?
 

Thanks again. Another webber pm'd me to point out that the 15th or 16th Cheshires formed part of the 35th division as did the Accrington & Burnley Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery. This would tally with what my dad used to say about his dad's WWI experience.