Accrington Web

Accrington Web (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/index.php)
-   Questions and Answers (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f66/)
-   -   Your thoughts on this please. (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f66/your-thoughts-on-this-please-46985.html)

Caz 18-04-2009 20:14

Your thoughts on this please.
 
I'm doing a course on Equality and Diversity, and I have just come accross this during the process.


"Many of the ways that people are not treated equally in everyday life are due to power structures, stereotypes and prejudices that existed when the UK was a very unequal society. These are changing so the way people treat each other also needs to change.

In the past there were many jobs that women were not allowed to do and men and women were treated differently, for example a female teacher was not allowed to get married and keep her job, but a male teacher was. Female teachers therefore had to choose between being married and teaching and were stereotyped as unfeminine because they weren't married and didn't have children.

The unequal treatment of female teachers (not allowed to get married) affected their behaviour (did not get married) which reinforced the stereotype of them (unfeminine, not suitable for marriage). As teaching at one time was one of the few jobs that females could do, people associated educated/working women with being less feminine. This stereotype lasted for a long time."

The bit I have highlighted is the one that puzzles me. One wonders how far back in time they are going, because I can remember in the fifties a teacher at my infant school marrying and keeping her job. (Hannah St Infants...Miss Anson became Mrs Miller)

Would be interested in hearing from people older than myself (55) if they have any knowledge of this being the case.

MargaretR 18-04-2009 20:26

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
The Civil Service used to have a policy whereby a woman had to cease work on marriage.
I don't know when this practice ended, but when I started work in 1959, there was an option still availabe to women - ie the option to take a Marriage Gratuity and resign, or stay at work as a married woman.
This option was eventually withdrawn in 1977

Royboy39 18-04-2009 20:44

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
this senario has no bearing whatsoever on todays thinking.
Times have changed and many women are in positions that they would not have been in years ago.
I am still of the opinion that women should marry men, that is what nature created us for.
Teachers in my opinion should be married and gain experience of family life.

In my early days I had experience of Nun's and the doctrine they preached hurt me very badly, so much so that 60 years on, I would not give them the time of day.

Caz 18-04-2009 20:45

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 705786)
The Civil Service used to have a policy whereby a woman had to cease work on marriage.
I don't know when this practice ended, but when I started work in 1959, there was an option still availabe to women - ie the option to take a Marriage Gratuity and resign, or stay at work as a married woman.
This option was eventually withdrawn in 1977

So how would this "marriage gratuity" affect women in the long term? EG pensions.

If they chose to work after marriage, were there any downsides?

Caz 18-04-2009 20:47

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

this senario has no bearing whatsoever on todays thinking.
Yes we know that.

Just going back in time to what people thought then.

Seems ridiculous now.

MargaretR 18-04-2009 20:56

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz (Post 705794)
So how would this "marriage gratuity" affect women in the long term? EG pensions.

If they chose to work after marriage, were there any downsides?

I don't know what year the practice of having to finish work ended.
The gratuity was a 'left over' remnant of that.
Until 1977 any woman whose chose to take the gratuity on marriage lost her pension earned to that date, but could carry on working.
There were no other 'downsides' to it - you could start earning pension rights again after marriage, but you probably wouldn't be able to fit in a full 40 years worth to get the maximum.

Caz 18-04-2009 20:59

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
So basically what you are saying Margaret, is that any pension rights earned before marriage were disregarded?. They had to start again?

MargaretR 18-04-2009 21:06

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz (Post 705799)
So basically what you are saying Margaret, is that any pension rights earned before marriage were disregarded?. They had to start again?

Yes - it was like being able to cash in any pension earned to the date of marriage and it was calculated on the length of time worked before marriage

Wynonie Harris 18-04-2009 21:06

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Only three years older than you, Caz, but Mrs Brown, my first ever teacher at St Peters in 1956 was, as her title implies, married. As for the civil service, my mum worked in the tax office (in what is now Platts Club), from the late 50's/early 60's, so the policy must have ended earlier.

As you say, seems stone age now. :rolleyes:

Lilly 18-04-2009 21:06

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz (Post 705782)
I'm doing a course on Equality and Diversity, and I have just come accross this during the process.


"Many of the ways that people are not treated equally in everyday life are due to power structures, stereotypes and prejudices that existed when the UK was a very unequal society. These are changing so the way people treat each other also needs to change.

In the past there were many jobs that women were not allowed to do and men and women were treated differently, for example a female teacher was not allowed to get married and keep her job, but a male teacher was. Female teachers therefore had to choose between being married and teaching and were stereotyped as unfeminine because they weren't married and didn't have children.

The unequal treatment of female teachers (not allowed to get married) affected their behaviour (did not get married) which reinforced the stereotype of them (unfeminine, not suitable for marriage). As teaching at one time was one of the few jobs that females could do, people associated educated/working women with being less feminine. This stereotype lasted for a long time."

The bit I have highlighted is the one that puzzles me. One wonders how far back in time they are going, because I can remember in the fifties a teacher at my infant school marrying and keeping her job. (Hannah St Infants...Miss Anson became Mrs Miller)

Would be interested in hearing from people older than myself (55) if they have any knowledge of this being the case.

I'm not older than you, I'm 31 so it's not something I personally remember but I do know that female teachers did have to stop teaching when they got married.

It was before your time, Caz, in the 1800s and early 1900s

I don't know when it ceased to be the case though.

MargaretR 18-04-2009 21:08

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris (Post 705801)
Only three years older than you, Caz, but Mrs Brown, my first ever teacher at St Peters in 1956 was, as her title implies, married. As for the civil service, my mum worked in the tax office (in what is now Platts Club), from the late 50's/early 60's, so the policy must have ended earlier.

As you say, seems stone age now. :rolleyes:

On the contrary - I took a marriage gratuity when I married my 2nd.
I cashed in my pension rights in 1978 - (so I was wrong about 1977) - I did it just before it was abolished.

Caz 18-04-2009 21:13

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 705800)
Yes - it was like being able to cash in any pension earned to the date of marriage and it was calculated on the length of time worked before marriage


So if you carried on working, pension continued as normal?

West Ender 18-04-2009 21:14

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
I took the CS Marriage Gratuity when I married in 1962. I worked for a further 2 years until I resigned when I had my first child. Resignation was not obligatory but the Maternity Leave was only 6 weeks and there was no part time working so, combined with a dearth of child-care, it was very difficult to be a working mother. Most mothers didn't work until their children were in school, usually secondary school.

My mother was also a civil servant but she had to resign when she married my dad in 1932. I have a feeling married women were not allowed in the CS until WW2 when they were indispensible.

I went to West End School when I was 3, 1946, and my teacher, Miss Greenwood, married and became Mrs Green while I was in her class. Perhaps the requirements of wartime had changed the rules for teachers as well as civil servants.

MargaretR 18-04-2009 21:23

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz (Post 705806)
So if you carried on working, pension continued as normal?

You had to start a pension again from scratch
Pensions are calculated on the number of years worked
To get the maximum amount possible, you had to have 40yrs that counted.

Caz 18-04-2009 21:27

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 705809)
You had to start a pension again from scratch
Pensions are calculated on the number of years worked
To get the maximum amount possible, you had to have 40yrs that counted.

Unbelievable, now.

Just shows how someones knowledge of certain things can have shortcomings, just by a few years age difference!

Cheers Margaret

emamum 18-04-2009 22:06

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
I did equality, diversity and rights (edr) at college, unfortunately my brain is broken...
that was helpful wasnt it?

Caz 18-04-2009 22:20

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by emamum (Post 705822)
I did equality, diversity and rights (edr) at college, unfortunately my brain is broken...
that was helpful wasnt it?


Think that is a given when you've just had a little one. From experience, brain tends to go to mush for a while! :D

emamum 18-04-2009 22:57

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
i know where my files are, will get them out tomorrow and refresh my brain see if its any use lol

Caz 18-04-2009 23:08

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
The course I'm doing is probably pretty similar to the one you did Emma. (Did you find some of the questions as daft as I did, lol)

The question I asked here has no bearing on what I submit to the course. It is just that i was shocked by the comment in one section about teachers, as It was beyond my memory.

emamum 18-04-2009 23:09

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
are you doing about policies and legislation?

Caz 18-04-2009 23:14

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
1: Diversity in the UK
2: Equality
3: Equal opportunities
4: Social and individual characteristics
5: Beliefs and values
6: Fostering diversity
7: Promoting equality in the workplace
Unit two: Explore prejudice and discrimination
1: Stereotyping and labelling
2: Behaviour and language
3: Prejudice and discrimination
4: Discrimination and the law
Unit three: Explore people's rights and responsibilities
1: Equality and the law
2: Human rights
3: Responsibility
4: Conflicting rights
5: Overcoming bad practice

Does that look familiar?

Caz 18-04-2009 23:20

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
If so, did you find some of the questions as daft as I did, lol.

emamum 18-04-2009 23:20

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
yeah, thats it...

the one about the law was the worse one, LOADS of research needed, i did the childrens act, race relations act and every child matters

emamum 18-04-2009 23:33

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
i cant think of any off the top of my head caz... will have a look at it tomorrow

are you enjoying it? i did, was one of my favourite subjects and i was good at it :D

garinda 18-04-2009 23:54

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz (Post 705782)
As teaching at one time was one of the few jobs that females could do, people associated educated/working women with being less feminine. This stereotype lasted for a long time."

Who's running this course?

The way a lot of it is worded is a load of old codswallop.

The part I quoted could be construed as prejudiced, for it makes no mention of class, and only relates to women of the lower middle classes and above.

For at least two hundred years, since the start of industrialisation, poorer women have worked for a living, and married.

It sounds like a BBC public information broadcast from the 1950's.

Caz 19-04-2009 00:16

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
It's Vision 2 learn Rindy. Doing it online

Some of the questions asked so far have been pathetic, in my opinion.

But if it gives me another qualification to my name, for those that know no better, who cares?

garinda 19-04-2009 00:20

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caz (Post 705846)
It's Vision 2 learn Rindy. Doing it online

Some of the questions asked so far have been pathetic, in my opinion.

But if it gives me another qualification to my name, for those that know no better, who cares?

It's probably very interesting, but the way it's worded sounds very vague and fuzzy.

As you say, why didn't it say when it was that female teachers had to be unmarried, and totally ignored the fact that at the same hundreds of thousands of women, further down the class system, were working hard to feed their families.

ossylass 19-04-2009 21:01

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
I left Accrington High School in 1953 and Mrs Kennedy was still teaching English Language and Latin - and a right tyrant she was!

garinda 19-04-2009 23:14

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
The marriage bar for female teachers formally ended in 1946, after the introduction of the Education Act (1944).

Sex segregation and inequality in ... - Google Book Search

Lilly 20-04-2009 15:55

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 706100)
The marriage bar for female teachers formally ended in 1946, after the introduction of the Education Act (1944).

Sex segregation and inequality in ... - Google Book Search

Well done, Garinda.

I tried to look for when it ended but couldn't find it.

garinda 20-04-2009 17:52

Re: Your thoughts on this please.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly (Post 706258)
Well done, Garinda.

I tried to look for when it ended but couldn't find it.

It is quite shocking, that it was so late.

If I'd have guessed I'd have said after the First World War, when women got the vote.

Still, it's also quite shocking that equal pay for women didn't come in until the seventies.

There is a lot wrong with society today, but at least people are now equal in the eyes of the law...at least in theory.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:47.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
© 2003-2013 AccringtonWeb.com