Refund or not?
 

I bought a laptop 2 months ago, second hand from a shop in accrington (wont mention which one but it is an independent one not a chain store).

When i bought it the guy told me it was in mint condition.

Got it home and discovered the battery was knackered and would need replacing (laptop only works when plugged in - kinda delates the purpose of a laptop if i cant move around with it:rolleyes:), went in 2 days later and he said he would order me one (still pestering him and still waiting for this battery).

Then this morning i switched the laptop on only to find out that the laptop wont even open windows because the copy of vista installed on it is not genuine:enough:.

I have noticed in his shop a sign that says no refunds only exchange, is that legally binding or can i demand a refund on the basis the laptop was not as described??

The laptop was supplied with a 30day warranty which obviously has expired but i still have the reciept, and a 2nd reciept saying im waiting on a battery got this when i noticed the warranty was almost up as i had a feeling the guy was gonna mess me around.

Any advice???

Re: Refund or not?
 

sorry no idea wi secondhand stuff speedy but this may be worth looking at.Trading Standards Institute - Home page

Re: Refund or not?
 

Cheers cashy,

Just found this on that site :

Is the trader right?

(for England, Wales and Northern Ireland)
The law considers that the seller of the goods is always liable for breaches of contract, such as goods being faulty. You are only entitled to a refund if the goods are defective, not as described or not fit for their purpose (exceptions for distance selling and buying in your own home). Traders cannot state “no refunds”.


So by the looks of things, due to the laptop being not as described and also having pirated software (almost certainly illegal) i am due a refund, please feel free to correct me if im wrong....hopefully someone will know more about this sort of thing than i do.

Re: Refund or not?
 

print that off speedy, keep in yer pocket n argue toss, if they won't play, produce it n say yer gonna contact em, worth a shot IMHO.

Re: Refund or not?
 

I would be straight back in with it, you must be able to come to some agreement you are happy with.

When you say wont open windows, how do you mean? Did you get a warning or message stating Vista was not genuine?

Re: Refund or not?
 

It loads to the user log-in screen (which i never had set up it normally loaded to just desktop).

Then it says the version of vista you are using is not genuine please enter authentication code or something along those lines (cant remember it word for word and its all packed up ready to take back so i dont really wanna be unpacking it all again to check).

But prior to this i had no idea it was a dodgy copy of vista.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Im sure if you mention this all should be resolved.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Just turned it on now to verify what it says (nothing else to do at this time of night lol).

The windows vista home premium product key you typed is invalid for activation

To activate windows you will need to use the automated phone system

It then gives me the option to Use automated phones system, access computer with reduced functunality or type a different product key.

After a few minutes a pop-up appears saying You may be a victim of product counterfieting, To use Microsoft windows features such as updates...ETC ETC your copy of windows must be validated as genuine.

If i click use computer with reduced funtionality it loads straight to microsoft.com and if i try going to another site or closing that window it takes me back to the original screen.

Re: Refund or not?
 

treaten to ring trading standards to make them aware of the fact that he sold you a pirate copy of windows and also mention theres a decent reard for reporting shops that sell pirated software of theirs

Re: Refund or not?
 

Just out of interest is there a reward or is that just a bluff?

Re: Refund or not?
 

Microsoft devotes substantial time and energy toward fighting software piracy and we very much appreciate your interest in our initiatives.
1. Corporate Piracy is the Illegal use of Microsoft software by a business or company. If you would like to report corporate piracy, should contact the local Business Software Alliance: Business Software Alliance. There is a reward available of up to ?10,000 for every end user report successfully concluded by the BSA
2. Channel Piracy is the sale of illegal software or the installation of illegal software onto a PC that is to be sold to a customer. If you would like to report Channel Piracy activity, you should go to www.microsoft.com/uk/piracy
3. If you have other questions regarding piracy, please send an email with your queries to the following email address: [email protected]

Re: Refund or not?
 

Any body selling to a third party has to comply with the sale of goods act, in as much as that if you say buy a second hand car in a private deal say, it has to be in exceptable working order, if that is how its sold to you, the days of breaking down on the corner with the gear box filled with sawdust have long gone

Re: Refund or not?
 

Posted via Mobile Device

You should have a sticker with a license key on somewhere on the machine. If not its dodgy and i would be straight down and asking for full refund or you will grass him up to microsoft and trading standards. If that doesn't scare him then he's more than silly and deserves all he gets.

Re: Refund or not?
 

the sticker on the laptop is for xp not vista.

Going down now, will let you know how i get on.

Re: Refund or not?
 

which shop is it anyway , only asking because i will be looking for a second hand laptop soon and dont want to end up buying from somehere that sells broken goods and have to go throgh this much hassle

Re: Refund or not?
 

That is almost true. If you buy a car privately the sale of goods act to not apply. If you buy from a dealer though it does.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Well to be honest that went pretty much how i expected it to.

He said its out of warranty, you have had it 2month....you were happy with it when you left.

I pointed out all the faults i have since discovered, mentioned trading standards, asked for refund, he pointed to sign on wall saying "no refunds" i explained that on the trading standards website it explains that that is not allowed and that regardless of the length of warranty offered the goods had to last a reasonable amount of time. (i even suggested he check the website and he refused).

He got grumpy and basically told me he was registered with microsoft and pays his licence every year, and that if i wanted to go to trading standards he wouldnt stop me because he had done nothing wrong.

Went to citizens advice bereau and have been given the phone number for consumer advice (i think thats what its called).

And the shop is Kings computers on Blackburn road, id advise giving it a miss, wish i had.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Get on to the consumer advice straight away, you must be fuming...........i`ll be keeping well clear of that place....:mad:

Re: Refund or not?
 

I was tempted to throw the laptop through his window as i was leaving but decided its best to do things the civil way:D

Re: Refund or not?
 

Speedy mate n old philosophy of mine= Don't get mad- Get Even.;)

Re: Refund or not?
 

More Fool Him.

Do you have household Insurance with Legal Cover?

If so this will help with a claim against the shop owner, or give some propper legal advise.

Main thing is Fight dont give up, good luck.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Where we twins seperated at birth cashy, you went left and I went right:D thats just my way of doing things too:D

Re: Refund or not?
 

even if he is licenced with microsoft which i highly doubt he is he still provided you with a pirate instalation of vista , if by some miracle he is licenced it depends what he is licenced to install , if i remember correctly just been licenced to say install xp home dosnt mean he can go putting xp pro and vista on to machines

besides the operating system issue there is also a technical fault that you pointed out to him before his so called warranty ran out and jsut because he didnt fix it within the warranty period dosnt mean its no longer expected to be repaired

when i took my car back 1 day before its 3 year warranty ran out the repair wasnt done until a week later but i had reported the fault before the warranty ran out so they had to do the repair under warranty

there isnt one shop along blackburn road i would trust with a computeror many of the others set up in the back of shops etc , they are ok for blank dvds and cheap inks or unblocking mobile phones but thats about it


see what trading standards say andalso report them to microsoft at the address in myearlier post , you gave him plenty of opportunity to resolve the issue so bollocks to him

Re: Refund or not?
 

Does it mention in any paperwork that the laptop was loaded with a licenced copy of Vista?

Your dealer has to include a single licensed product on each computer he supplies, even if he is selling it on someone elses behalf.

Quote the windows Product ID with any communication with Microsoft.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Sale of goods act still applies, if need be get a solicitors letter threatening to take him to small claims court, that should make him shift pretty quickly, or alternatively tell him you will write to local rag. Either way he is very much in the wrong.

Re: Refund or not?
 

well this site is viewed quite a lot by not only members but guests so hes probably already peed on his chips with a few people already

Re: Refund or not?
 

Just spoke to a really nice lady from consumer direct, after explaining to her the issues and giving her details of the shop and the problems encountered, she advised me to check thier website and use one of the template letters to make a complaint.

Consumer Direct (very useful site if you have any problems similar to this).

So just put together a letter detailing the faults and the outcome i would like, just need to send it to him now.

Anybody know if i have to accept a repair or replacement or can i refuse those and ask purely for a refund? Not sure i want another product that has come from his shop as i have heard numerous people have had problems there.

Re: Refund or not?
 

I had to google the name of his shop to find the address and this topic was higher in the search results than his address:D.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Posted via Mobile Device
No such thing as a shop being licensed to install all versions of windows without individual license stickers. He is talking ball cocks. He i was you i would in back armed with the microsoft number for piracy and tell him you will happily call them from your mobile whilst there unless he provides a full refund there and then. .

Re: Refund or not?
 

well if thats the case GO FOR IT Speedy.:)

Re: Refund or not?
 

if your going to send amy letters to the shop send them recorded delivery so he vant say he didnt receive them

Re: Refund or not?
 

Letter is finished just needs sending, i hadnt thought of recorded delivery but thats a very good idea.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Good Luck.:)

Re: Refund or not?
 

I would suggest you take someone else with you as well. If he gets a little excited you will have a witness.

Re: Refund or not?
 

yeah a few dozen angry villagers and some torches :D

or accringtons equivalent

2 fat chicks and a broken bottle

Re: Refund or not?
 

LMAO, that would be a funny sight.....and would probably get me a refund lol.

Anyone know if i have to accept a repair/replacement or can i insist on a refund?

Re: Refund or not?
 

If it's faulty and you have proof of purchase you can insist on a refund.

Re: Refund or not?
 

There was quite a bit of faffing about here, giving plenty of opportunity for the shop owner to put things right, in my opinion, as soon as there was the possibility of a legal issue/fraudulent supply, that should have been the end of conversation etc with the shop owner, police, microsoft, and tranding standards should have been informed, this is the reason there are so many rogue traders around, apathy, and the people who get a refund etc, are in the 'Im alright Jack' category, make these traders face up to thier responsibilities, whether you get a refund or not!

Re: Refund or not?
 

Who's amy? Why would he send letters for her to a computer shop?:confused::rolleyes:

Re: Refund or not?
 

Well i have been waiting for the replacement battery for 6weeks, heard soooooo many excuses as to why thats not arrived yet.

It started with "I couldnt get one from this country so its coming from china"

Then it changed to "It came in on my day off and one of my staff sold it to another customer" (what a coincidence, someone has the same laptop as me and chooses that day to go and buy one from the same shop.....I smell BS).

Then it changed again to "the warehouse in china has sold out and im waiting for them to get a delivery, be a couple of days".

To be honest i have had enough of messing around waiting for him to sort things out, anything i can do now to make his life hard work i will.

Im also going to refuse a replacement/repair on the grounds that i dont trust him or his workmanship.

Oh and he obviously knew about the battery fault as when i asked to look at the laptop the first thing he did was plug it in. (which TBH i should have been suspicious about but i didnt think anything of it).

Gonna go and hand deliver that letter tommorrow (will also send one by recorded delivery just as proof he recieved it).

Anyone know a local contact number for trading standards or even better do they have an office or similar round here?

Re: Refund or not?
 

Re: Refund or not?
 

Forgot to mention one of his other excuses for refusing the refund.

"how do i know you havent downloaded something that messed up windows".

Yes mate because i found a virus that has somehow convinced my copy of vista that its not genuine. I honestly dont think the guy knows anything about computers.

Re: Refund or not?
 

just to be clear as it may have got lost amongst the pages of this thread which shop was it again that sold you a faulty laptop with a pirated vista operating system on it?

Re: Refund or not?
 

I`ll be avoiding it at all costs................

Re: Refund or not?
 

Well the drama continues.

Went in today to hand deliver the letter, took two copies with me, handed him one which he read in front of me. I then asked him to sign the other copy as proof he had recieved it.

He gave me back both copies and said "take them somewhere else i dont want them here".

I explained to him that if he was unwilling to accept or reply to this letter that i would have to take further action.

He then became aggrevated and said "You wanna get cocky with me, ill show you what cocky is. I dont want to see or hear from you again now leave my shop"

I explained to him that everything in that letter was legal and that him refusing to accept the letter will probably make things more difficult for him should the case have to go to court. His face was a picture when court was mentioned and he continued to rant and rave at me which no matter how hard i tried not to made me smile:D.

To be fair his employee (who has always seemed quite a nice genuine guy) asked me what the problem was only to be told by his boss "shut up, dont talk to him"

To be honest i was half expecting this sort of response from him, after i left his shop i went up to the CAB, gonna go back and see them again in morning to find out what the next step is.

Normally someone shouting at me would get shouted at back, but i just remembered what cashy said -dont get mad, get even- everything he said just made the thought of taking him to court more and more appealing:D.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Good luck with it all... hope they get what they deserve :D

Re: Refund or not?
 

I cant do that, would ruin the court case;).

But fingers crossed will get sorted out.

Re: Refund or not?
 

good luck man , common sense is to keep customers happy , i know some buisnesses suffer customers who moan at teh slightest thing and desrve to be told to stuff off but a faulty item form day one and teh software issue is bang out of order and shodl have been sorted out with as little fuss as possible

word of mouth can be just as bad for a buisness as it can be good

you can have 100 happy customers but how they treat the unhappy one shows a buisnesses true colours

Re: Refund or not?
 

Well a Google search for "Kings Computers Accrington" shows this thread up as second from the top :D

Nothing like good advertising for your business :p

So this is what have we learnt from this thread so far.

Kings Computers do not adhere to the Sale of Goods Act and are quite threatening to customers who expect to receive their legal rights.

They also sell PC's with illegal pirate copies of Microsoft Windows XP on them

Re: Refund or not?
 

All of the above is correct, except it was Vista not XP.

The funny thing is i cost him a customer today as there were two lads in the shop (one had a wad of cash in his hand and was looking at a PC), as soon as the guy started having a go at me the lads walked out:D.

He picked the wrong person to sell dodgy stuff to, i have to wonder though how many other people have recieved this sort of customer service from him, im very stubborn and impossible to intimidate, but there are people who would probably back down to that kind of bullying.....luckily im not one of them:mosher:.

Re: Refund or not?
 

it was vista despite a valid key for xp been on the bottom of th laptop if i remember correctly

the most outstanding issue to me is that fact that it was sold faulty and nothing was done to rectify the fault apart from excuses and threats :rolleyes:

Re: Refund or not?
 

Yup thats correct.

At first i wasnt too bothered about having to wait for the battery but 6 weeks is a long time.....I could have designed and built my own quicker:D.

Doubt ill ever see that battery, but id rather just have rid of this laptop and go to a reputable shop and get a different one.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Spoke to consumer direct again just now, explained what happened with the letter.

Been advised to send a copy by recorded delivery and give him a deadline of 7days to respond in writing, if he fails to respond (which judging from his past responses is highly likely) then i have to ring them back again.

So for the next 7days there probably wont be much progress to report although i will pop into his shop now and again just to remind him that im not gonna go away :-).

Is it wrong that im looking forward to seeing him suffer?

Re: Refund or not?
 

Not at all :D

Re: Refund or not?
 

If you are giving him 7 days to respond then let him have the 7 days. If you keep going in the shop during those 7 days he could quite easily turn things round and accuse you of harrassment.

Do you not know anybody who could pretend to be a reporter ;)

Re: Refund or not?
 

Never mind pretending to be a reporter, I woul have contacted the local papers by now :rolleyes:

Re: Refund or not?
 

How have ya got on with this since then?

Re: Refund or not?
 

kings computers? Hehe they are at top of my street. I certainly wouldn't buy a hard drive from them after seeing how he handles them.....

Re: Refund or not?
 

Well I hope you have reported him to Microsoft, just in ase you nee it the web site you need is: How to Tell

keep us informed how you go on

Re: Refund or not?
 

Just googled it and its top now, hehehe

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Not on Speedy's list it ain't BG:D

Re: Refund or not?
 

Just reading this thread. I purchased a lap top recently form Kings computers Blackburn Rd. Same problem but i asked my son what could be wrong with the lap top as it had stopped working, he thought that may be it was the same problem as you explained and the man in the shop stated it was okay because of the sticker on the back he did something to it and its working now, not sure what he did unfortunately not well up on computers i was about to ask for a refund because he informed me on purchase their was a three month warrenty on the item, If he hadnt fixed the problem i would not have left the shop without a refund or exchanged for another lap top he was i must say nice and pleasant infact i was going to recommend the shop to my friends but obviously if yours and my computer where not right it makes me wonder and perhaps i was just lucky he could fix it but still dont know if its legal as usless with computers.

Re: Refund or not?
 

And you can demand a refund absoulutely any problem i will go with you.

Re: Refund or not?
 

if you were getting a warning saying that your copy was pirated and then it suddenly wasnt its more than likely he ran teh WGA fix which tricks the validation process into thinking your copy is legit

these can run out so if this is the case then expect the warning to come back when the new validation process picks up on it

Re: Refund or not?
 

You are probably correct here because when i purchased the lap top it worked okay for about one month then it was like i coulnt get on the internet so i will wait if this happens again i will be demanding a full refund. Thanks for the information.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Having a dodgy copy of Windows will not stop you getting onto the internet.

Does your laptop have a Microsoft label on it with your licence key on it? Is it the correct version of Windows - as in do you have Vista on the laptop and the label is for Vista?

Re: Refund or not?
 

true the WGA message wont stop your pc from accessing the internet...after all microsoft want you to so you can easily buy a key from them :)

you have to get the new WGA crack when they update the validation software. Shouldnt take long after buying a computer with dodgy windows(matter of months) since microsoft update it regularly

Re: Refund or not?
 

Just a quick update on this.

Sent a letter to the shop via recorded delivery. Checked on its progrss (finally found the reciept from post office with reference number, dosey me misplaced it). And they have left a "while you were out card" with the shop and its waiting at Accy post office for him to collect.

Gonna ring consumer direct again in a few days to find out what i should do next.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Wonder what would happen if they don't pick it up....

Re: Refund or not?
 

If he reads AccyWeb he won't go and collect it will he?

Re: Refund or not?
 

Maybe not... but was wondering more if something could be done if he didn't receive the copy
If he has read this, maybe he is leaning more to not getting the letter, cos then to him there is no proof of complaint?

Re: Refund or not?
 

i think if they keep ignoring it then it will either be snt to court or trading standards will pay a visit its just teh hassle you have to go through to get them out

if theres dodgy software on his systems and hes using pirate software it would be sensible to et this out of teh way and sorted as its not teh smartest thing to do to let it get to teh point where you have trading standards sniffing around your shop especially if you are selling dodgy gear

probably just a smart arse who thinks the customer will go away and give up

Re: Refund or not?
 

If thats the case then he clearly doesnt know me:D, Never one to back down from anything me:p.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Carry on Speedy, Sharks like this need showing up for what they are :mosher:

Re: Refund or not?
 

Why not hand deliver a copy of the letter to him. Take somebody along with you and mark the envelope and the letter 'Witnessed hand delivery'

Re: Refund or not?
 

Another quick update, just checked to see if it had been collected yet and......

Track & Trace
Results
Your item with reference BR10*****85GB is being returned to sender.

Post office = FAIL.

Re: Refund or not?
 

So what ya gonna do now?

Re: Refund or not?
 

Balaclavas and baseball bats:D (joke).

Going to ring consumer direct in the morning and see what they recommend, and possibly go to the shop with a friend and video actually giving him the letter....He cant deny it then:D.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Good Idea :D (joke :p)

The 2nd is a better idea :)

Re: Refund or not?
 

The first one might get a better result AccyLass:D

Re: Refund or not?
 

get 2 friends to do this not you.

He may well refuse to take it from you, but not from someone else who he does not know.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Any updates on this thread speedy?

Re: Refund or not?
 

suggest you ring trading standards they will tell you wether you should get a refund and what to write in a letter which you should send recorded delivery i had a carpet that was'nt cut right went this route got phone call to collect money next day

Re: Refund or not?
 

2nd letter sent, just awaiting a reply now (not holding my breath TBH).

Looks like court its gonna be, i dont mind that though.....just means more expense for him :-).

As for trading standards, im in regular contact with consumer direct who work alongside trading standards, so speaking to them direct is possibly next step.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Have you reported him to Microsoft?

Re: Refund or not?
 

:D

Small update, Just spoke to the lovely people at consumer direct, and because the shop is continuing to ignore my correspondonce they have passed the case over to trading standards.

So just awaiting a phonecall from them now, been told it will be no later than 5pm Tuesday:cool:.

Looks like this is finally gonna start to move forward:mosher:.

Re: Refund or not?
 

I hope this guy gets his justs Speedy, serve him right

Re: Refund or not?
 

Glad somet is starting to happen with this!

Don't suppose there is much chance of em ignoring trading standards for too long :)

Re: Refund or not?
 

Recieved a letter today........



.........Dont get too excited is was from the post office, it was my original letter stating the reason it had been returned "Not called for". So thats evidence i suppose :-)

TBH would have been better if the reason was "refused delivery" but somethings better than nothing.

Re: Refund or not?
 

Microsoft catches 11 UK pirate retailers • Channel Register
Microsoft has reached settlements with 11 companies accused of selling dodgy copies of its products.

The 11 computer retailers all faced court action and admitted illegal hard disc loading and selling illegal software.


you may wish to send him a copy of this as proof that Microsoft take this seriously!

Re: Refund or not?
 

The Product Identification Service on the link may be useful to ya speedy?