Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1094661)

Have we met?:eek:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1094773)

Most folk waste time in one way or another at work , the difference is smokers are targetted because of social stigma (and the ease in proving they are not working). :D
Besides they might stay in the office later to finish work off, they may skip lunch... There are numerous times when we all work extra time and it is not noted. And I've seen non-smokers take 10 minutes to go to the bog :eek:
Some folk are lazy other aren't so.:D

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1094794)

Well, sometimes the staff who worked on my unit worked many hours over their time - but then it was all staff that did that not just the smokers.
I have to say that on the whole I had a good bunch of lasses working alongside me...and they could be called upon to come in at short notice(even those with young children)......so I don't think any of them could be classed as lazy....there were times when they just needed a fag.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1094794)

....there were times when they just needed a fag.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1094809)

If they were working many hours oer there time,i can only assume they did,Margaret will no doubt clarify. But yeh seem to be looking fer any excuse to nit-pick??:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1094808)

Did the non-smokers get a similar kind of deal, pehaps if they need a brew they can just nip off to the canteen.

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1094811)

Nit picking is good for him, it is what the inferior ape does to try and ingratiate itself with those higher in the group.:)
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...vA0KVlMEQD1S4w

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1094816)

The non smokers could brew up any time they wanted to...and we had the facilities on the ward to do so....but most of the nurses used to have a brew while they were doing the writing up of notes.
Breaks often went by the wayside if the workload was particularly heavy, patients came first(busy theatre days, large influx of emergencies, poorly patients) The work was not only physically draining but it was also traumatic at times - I am sure I don't need to outline just why...and sometimes if a staff member had been upset by an incident, then I would suggest they took 'five' - had a brew and a fag(If they were a smoker)...I think this is why my staff worked well for me.

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1094817)

When you say "higher in the group" I assume you mean "the inner clique" :rolleyes:
It may well be "what the inferior ape does",But as your part of a (evolved) civilized human race,you should really try an see others as equal not "higher" or lower than yourself :p

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1094817)

When you say "higher in the group" I assume you mean "the inner clique" :rolleyes:
It may well be "what the inferior ape does",But as your part of a (evolved) civilized human race,you should really try an see others as equal not "higher" or lower than yourself :p

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1094818)

Most likely, but these days you can`t just have a fag, you have to walk down to haslingden road to do it, and when you see people doing this when you`ve gone 10 hours with no dinner, brew or even a sit down, it does kind of wind you up slightly. Main reason she got off the wards as soon as she could. But it`s not just the NHS though, it`s exactly the same where I worked, constantly pulled up for being at the drink fountain (worked in over 100 degree heat most days) yet others are fagging it every hour without fail.

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1094563)

I have removed the BBC copy and paste as it is against the rules.

Why do these so called celebrities think that anyone cares what they think?

Originally Posted by Michael1954 (Post 1094830)

I have come to this thread late, so it opened at page 4 for me. See post 49, Neil. You have included the BBC link.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1094839)

To get back to the ban- I think even the smokers would agree that smoking is expensive, unsociable(except in a group of smokers), stinks, ruins your decorations and is very bad for your health- lethal even.
The older ones on here started when smoking was sexy, romantic and almost compulsory. Hard to stop and I really can't think why anyone would ever want to start now the dangers are so clearly known.

BUT- I'm tired of various Governments being our nannies. Interfering in every little bit of our private lives, whether we are doing something silly or not. The idiots who smoke in their cars with their children will continue to do so- because they are idiots. The sensible ones don't need yet another almost unenforceable petty law. I wouldn't smoke in my car with adults, never mind children and when I do the sun roof is fully open(hate the smell!).

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1094892)

For some reason, even though the dangers are well documented and spelled out very clearly, I regularly encounter young folk(maybe twelve or thirteen) smoking blatantly on their way home from school.....in school uniform with the name of the school clearly emblazoned on their jumper(very few of these children appear to possess a coat, even in the most inclement of weather).
Perhaps they are suffering from that thing that seems to afflict youth - they think they are immortal - that cancer and heart disease are what 'old folk' get.

When the smokers of my generation were children.......the 'bobby' would give you a cuff round the lug hole and take you home and tell your parents what he had stopped you from doing. You would then get a hiding from your father for doing the deed and an extra slap for having to be brought home by the 'bobby'.

So young smokers back then did it secretly.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 1094905)

The way to educate should be a "SLAP" it sure educated me.:D

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1094839)

when I do the sun roof is fully open(hate the smell!).

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1094908)

Didn't stop you though, did it?:confused:

Originally Posted by joaner3 (Post 1094887)

Yes Eric, everyone in Montreal will be going to the South shore to the Mohawks to buy them.

Originally Posted by magpie (Post 1095135)

well I don't have kids they are grown up... so I can smoke in my car when I want to: whatever next: sick of this nanny state we are in: one of the main reasons all the pubs are closed is because of the smoking ban.... ( I know there are others too)

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1095140)

"I don't know anyone except my uncle who's actually done it"....

....Do you,Does anyone??

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1095142)

Yes.

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1095151)

Yes, she doesn`t have kids herself, but nephews and younger sisters, if they want to come with her shopping (and they always do) then they have to put up with her smoking.

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1095162)

I suppose the fact she thinks smoking in the car with kids is something or nothing suggests there may well be a need to legislate.

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1095162)

But then again responsible adults know how to behave (an don't need the state to tell them).

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1095165)

The responsibility also falls on the parents, they allow the children to go with this Aunt knowing that she smokes in the car while they are with her, they are just as guilty, if guilt has to be laid at anyone's door.

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1095168)

She`s just as bad, she`ll smoke in the same room as him at home.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1095165)

The responsibility also falls on the parents, they allow the children to go with this Aunt knowing that she smokes in the car while they are with her, they are just as guilty, if guilt has to be laid at anyone's door.



Of course responsible adults know how to behave, legislation is put in place to bring the irresponsible in line, otherwise, we would not for example need to make murder against the law.



Not to worry I'm planning a day on the ale today perhaps after a 12 hour session I will either understand what you mean or at least be able to post down to your standard.
:thepint:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1095165)

The responsibility also falls on the parents, they allow the children to go with this Aunt knowing that she smokes in the car while they are with her, they are just as guilty, if guilt has to be laid at anyone's door.



Of course responsible adults know how to behave, legislation is put in place to bring the irresponsible in line, otherwise, we would not for example need to make murder against the law.



Not to worry I'm planning a day on the ale today perhaps after a 12 hour session I will either understand what you mean or at least be able to post down to your standard.
:thepint:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1095170)

Perhaps they've weighed the pro's and con's and would rather have their offspring in this pariah's company than not have any input from an otherwise loving relative?
:)

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1095174)

Remember to Drink responsibly ;)

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1120888)

Major new health report: 'Ban smoking in London's public parks and squares' - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

Whatever next?

Originally Posted by MargaretR (Post 1120920)

Rauni-Leena Luukanen-Kilde, MD, Former Chief Medical Officer of Finland says that human microchipping is already happening.
Microchip Implants
This article may well exaggerate what is happening, but if it is possible, it likely happened.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 1120894)

:joint::smoky::smoky: OK from now on there will be NO SMOKING while your on Accyweb :smoky: :smoky::smoky::D

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1120892)

Less litter?
Less bad examples to children?
Less drain on our Heath service?

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1120951)

You are pushing on an open door there Eric as far as I am concerned.

Back on thread though, yes smoking is in decline and lot's of nicotine addicts will say they are trying to quit.
Banning smoking in parks and open places will surely help these would be quitters.

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1120892)

Less drain on our Heath service?

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1120951)

Banning smoking in parks and open places will surely help these would be quitters.
No, it will be easier for them to not walk in parks, so no exercise and their health will deteriorate even more and it will be all your fault! :eek:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1120962)

Tobacco Tax income- £12 billion
Cost of treating smoking related illnesses- £3 billion.
£9 billion profit- a tenth of the total NHS cost. Are you prepared to help make up the £9 billion?

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1120974)

It is no good saying something is banned in the public places in London if there is no-one to police the ban.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1120962)

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1120979)

I don't get the electric cigarette ban...

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1120979)

I don't get the electric cigarette ban.
If it helps people give up on tobacco then surely that is no bad thing.
Again the powers that be think that it glorifies smoking and might....just might encourage people to smoke tobacco.
As there is no second hand smoke from these devices surely it is safer too for those in the vicinity.

We are treated like 12 year olds.
If we are old enough to pay tax, to go to war and fight, to get married, to vote.......then surely we are old enough to decide how we wish to conduct our lives.
We do not need the sanctimonious preaching of government ministers and departments to decide for us.

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1121004)

The Dog in Whalley allows ecigs...I always have a dry throat if I am sat at a table near them
And yes I move. There is nothing worse than slip streaming a smoker of any kind whilst walking when they exhale clouds of smoke oblivious to anybody else. And yes I can hold my breath and move.

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1121012)

A talking shop.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121002)

You are at more risk from the chemicals released into the air from Diesel engines.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121002)

My understanding is that nicotine is taken up by receptor cells in the brain rather than being exhaled in water vapour.....but if you know different then OK. I will bow to your greater knowledge.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121002)

If smokers are trying to quit and use these devices to help them, then they should be 'cut some slack' in order to help them ditch the tobacco habit.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121002)

Most of the damaging agents in tobacco are the tar compounds.
Second hand smoke(especially in confined spaces) is damaging to those breathing it in.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121002)

As for your colleague who goes on smoke breaks........this is something that can be tackled at appraisal.

Originally Posted by Studio25 (Post 1121027)

And? It sounds like you're suggesting that because there are more unpleasant chemicals around, then I should be ignoring this one. That's like saying because people get murdered the police shouldn't respond to shoplifting, or because there are entire countries that don't bother with recycling, I shouldn't bother recycling this beer can.



It has to get to the brain via the lungs. Your lungs, if working properly, are 20% "efficient" - that is, the air you exhale contains 80% of the oxygen that was present when you breathed it in. That's because the bulk of the air just sits in the middle of tiny bubbles called alveoli. Only the air that's in contact with the alveolus surface actually gives up its oxygen.

With both types of cig, the nicotine has to get into your bloodstream the same way. In regular cigarettes, the carrier is the smoke particles. In ecigs, the carrier is water droplets (not vapour, even though that's what everyone calls it). The stuff you can see when they breathe out - smoke or water - still contains as much of the nicotine as when it went in (and tar, in the case of regular cigs). The particles that gave up their nicotine remain in your lungs until carried out by mucous (cigarettes) or exhaled as water vapour (true water vapour this time - the kind you can't see unless it condenses into water droplets on a cold day).

This is all knowledge deduced based on a A levels in biology and physics, i.e. common sense. I've done about as much research into it as the government has... :rolleyes:


Agreed, but just to be devil's advocate here - do you think that giving everyone in a room a little bit of heroin would help the recovering drug addict? What you're suggesting is that in the doctor's waiting room (or wherever) the non-smokers present are obliged to breathe in the nicotine in the air just to make the smoker a little more comfortable about the habit they are trying to kick.


Absolutelyright. It's just the addictive drug that's present in exhaled ecig smoke - not of those nasty carcinogens (or at least, none that we know about yet).


Wait - weren't you just talking about social pariahs?

I have no problem with people who need a smoke break, I'm just saying it costs you money. Yes, you.
The organisation, whether it's the council or the widget factory needs to absorb the cost of the smoker, just like it absorbs the cost of the tea junkie (me :D ) or the horny workers who nip off to the stationery cupboard for a quickie (not me :( ). Ultimately all these costs are met by the consumer, whether it's in your council tax or the cost price of your brand new widget.

Even if you limit or don't allow smoke breaks, you're talking about an addictive substance. The reduced capacity from someone who's been disallowed a smoke break that they feel they need is probably just as damaging to their productivity as letting them take the break in the first place.

There's no solution for this, unless the company actively discriminates against smokers during its recruitment - and I'm not sure anyone other than Accyexplorer is teflon-coated enough to start that discussion...

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1121032)

Forgetting it'll be virtually unenforceable,I'm all for banning smoking in kiddies play area's just not entire parks (maybe when they ban vehicles from belching out noxious fumes, I'll do one of my famous Uturns and jump onboard)..

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1121039)

Enforceable by education and example AccyX.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121038)

As for the other employment issues......I was involved with staff at a management level so I have some personal experience of the issues in question.

.

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1121044)

Can't imagine why water vapour would leave you with a dry throat- you weren't drinking Dry Martinis were you?

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121090)

Yes.....we are told, but it doesn't mean we necessarily obey......so they make rebels out of the man in the street.

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1121060)

I kept expecting you to appear here as the guest speaker today Margaret.
;)

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121098)

I'll bet they were damn glad I was booked for another venue(Ma's...delivering her home cooked casserole wit fresh veggies).

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1121125)

Never had a barm cake with a pie in it....Can't fancy it somehow.

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1121137)

Pie and chips on a stottie, yum yum.

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1121137)

Pie and chips on a stottie, yum yum.