War memorials
 

I am trying to trace if one of the Accrington Pals KIA is remembered on any of the local war memorials or on a church plaque. He came from Spring hill rd, so not sure which memorial he might be on. He may be a family friend and my mum mentioned an intruiging story reference a picture from the great war.

Does anyone have a list of all the memorials or church plaques in the area so I could visit them and see if he is there.

Phil

Re: War memorials
 

If yeh got a name,someone may know:)

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Phil, take a look at this...

UK National Inventory of War Memorials

Re: War memorials
 

Yes, but several church plaques now no longer exist, some of the metal ones have been stolen, others destroyed when the buildings were bulldozed, or became a mosque. Also there are 169 names missing from the War Memorials in Greater Accrington, 94 of those are missing from Accrington's War Memorial including 6 Pals. There were other memorials and Rolls of honour, every pub, club institution, school, & work place etc had some sort of scroll.
Five men of the 11th East Lancs lived in Spring Hill Rd.
Retlaw

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The one it identifies as in Accrington Library, is the one I made for William Turner in 2005. Bill had a brass plaque made for it, it used to be on the wall in the Library next to the big picture of A Coy.
Retlaw

Re: War memorials
 

Just found out he is commemorated on the Oak Hill memorial. Thanks for the info everybody..

One thing...where would 7 Spring Hill Rd have been. The first house on the left hand bottom corner looking upwards is numbered 9.

It wasn't the pub was it on the opposite corner?

Phil

Re: War memorials
 

The only Accrington Pal on Accy War Memorial, lived at 61 Spring Hill Rd.
Retlaw

Re: War memorials
 

The soldier was called Jim H Pilkington and was with the Scottish Rifles or Cameronians and lived at 7 spring Hill Rd Accringon. He was killed on 26th April 1917. He was remembered in the Observer on 26th May 1917.
His name is on Oak Hill memorial and the Arras Memorial.

I would think that makes him a PAL doesn't it?

I read the term Accrington PAL is a bit of a misnomer...

I have a couple of his posessions that his relatives may be interested in.....

Phil

Re: War memorials
 

No the Accrington Pals were the 11th (Service Battalion) East Lancashire Regiment.
To be an Accrington Pal, you would have to enlist in or be transferred into the 11th Battalion East Lancs, before July 1st 1916, after that date they could no longer be called Accrington Pals, there were'nt enough survivors.
James Holt Pilkington served as Private 28437 in the 10th Cameronians, killed in Action 26th Apl 1917.
There is no family info on C.W.G. There is a memoriam notice in the Accy Observer in April 1918, from family at 7 Spring Hill Rd, not found in 1919 or 1920.
Retlaw.

Re: War memorials
 

Thanks Walter for the info. His number is actually 18437 by the way.

I was talking to my next door neighbour Jean Harrison and she says she is a good friend of yours...

She is now on the case looking for Jims relatives.....

Phil

Re: War memorials
 

Correct wth his number, I'm blaming my flaming Grandson, swopping keys round again. James had 1 brother & 7 Sisters, parents were Peter & Annie.
Here's his medal Card.
Retlaw.

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Thanks walter

Phil

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Anyone know if the observer is available online for info back in the early war years? Dont want to take anything away from you stalwarts who actually go into the Library and research....but when you work full time its difficult finding the time....

Phil

Re: War memorials
 

He also had a wife and child I believe so maybe relatives still around somewhere.....

Phil

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Found a Memoriam notice in the April, 1919 Accy Observer. attached.
Retlaw

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Oy blaming the rugrat, its yer fat fingers thats to blame, not my little fella! :D:D

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:eek: You what, that little rug rat is always messing my scanner settings up, and nicking the video zapper, so who else could it be. :tongueout
Retlaw.

Re: War memorials
 

The lad himself from May 1917......

Phil

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Thanks for that, but you should have said if you wanted a news article, I've done all te local papers from 1814 to 1920.
Retlaw.

Re: War memorials
 

I said in post 8 there was an article on him on 26 May 1917. Your version is much better than mine though..thank you.

If anyone is interested the story is as follows. My mother had two photos, the first of two soldiers, one soldier sat down and one stood up behind him outside a building in France. The photo has a hole in the centre and a stain around the outside. On the back my mother had wrote " found on Jim Pilkingtons body after he was killed" and she told me the hole was thought to be a bullet/ or shrapnel hole and the stain could be blood. I have always thought that one of the soldiers was Jim Pilkington. That was until a second photo turned up (the original of the one in the observer). My mother had wrote on the back "Jim Pilkington" and he was not one of the soldiers in the first photo. I assume they were his mates. I have thought that maybe his surviving relatives would be interested in the having the photos in memory of Jim.
The only possible flaw in the story could be that the photo was not taken from his body, because he has no known grave hence the Arras Memorial commemoration. That is unless he was killed in action and the photo was taken from his body by his mates, then the troops had to retreat and leave him.
It is all very intriguing and a wonderful story for one of our heroes and I have always wondered what the connection between his family and mine was...mum was only 5 when he died. She had done some research before she died hence the observer cutting which she obtained from the library in 1995.

So the search for relatives goes on............

Phil

Re: War memorials
 

The only possible flaw in the story could be that the photo was not taken from his body, because he has no known grave hence the Arras Memorial commemoration. That is unless he was killed in action and the photo was taken from his body by his mates, then the troops had to retreat and leave him.
In the news article the letter from the officer say he was killed by shell fire, they would have buried him behind the lines, this happened to 1000's of soldiers. Many of those graves were destroyed in subsequent battles, especially in March/April 1918. His mates would have handed his possessions to his officer, for them to be returned to his next of kin, the address of which would be written in his Small Book. Went to
Retlaw.

Re: War memorials
 

Carrying on from Went to. Ran out of time again.

Went to Accy Library this aft checking the 1914 Burgess Rolls, to see if he lived near his parents in 1914, couldn't find him, unfortunately there is no 1914 for Ossy, I was hoping he might have lived near his parents, just over the border. It also says his name is on the U.M.Church Roll of Honour, can't find his name on that either.
Retlaw.

Re: War memorials
 

If anyone is interested the story is as follows. My mother had two photos, the first of two soldiers, one soldier sat down and one stood up behind him outside a building in France. The photo has a hole in the centre and a stain around the outside. On the back my mother had wrote " found on Jim Pilkingtons body after he was killed" and she told me the hole was thought to be a bullet/ or shrapnel hole and the stain could be blood.
If you could send me a decent scan of that photo, theres a chance I could identify them, quite a number of men from Greater Accrington served in the Scottish Rifles in WW1, one of them was.
Pte. 14268. Joe Pilkington.
Retlaw.

Re: War memorials
 

Walter...where would the UM Church roll of honour be?

Phil

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Have'nt a clue, its now over 25 years since Bill Turner & I started collecting names from Rolls of Honour, did the church merge with another, quite a few have over the years. Could be one that Bill rescued, and its in Accy Library.

Retlaw.

Re: War memorials
 

A mate of mine collates information on WMs & RoH's for a national organisation. I will send his details to Retlaw. also to Karateman by PM and get his OK to put it on this forum. Are we talking about the United Methodists or does UM mean summat else?

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What about all the names that are missing from WM's & RoH's, there are 158 names missing from Hyndburns WM's, Accringtons has 11 double entries, even the Common Wealth War Graves have names missing.
Retlaw.

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My mate, Mike Coyle ,has checked the National Register of WMs and found ;- there isn't one locally containing the words United Methodist. Of known WMs, there are Hr Antley Meths (lost); Abbey St Wesleyans (lost) Spring Hlil Meths (lost -a query on this loss) Union St Meths (lost) Cambridge St Meths is in situ Whalley Rd Primitive is in the library. Contact Mike on [email protected]

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The actual memorial may be lost, but Bill and I collected all the names from all known Memorials & Rolls of Honour years ago.
You can inlude in the list of missing Royds St Baptists stolen,
Chricst Church, lost (I made them a new one) St Anne's Church Cobham Rd, (I've provided information for a new one)
There were also numerous Clubs, Pubs, Schools, workplaces, Rolls of Honour, and Memorials, we collected the names off every thing we could think of. There must have been a R-O-H for the UMC church in Ossy, I have a list of names.
Retlaw

Re: War memorials
 

The newspaper cutting says he was a member of the United Methodists church Moscow Mill st Osw, and is on the roll of honour there. So I was wondering if it had been "saved", parden the pun, when the church was demolished. Surely something so important and poignant to the people of Ossy and Accy wouldn't have been destroyed.....

Phil

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What did you do before you used the Internet Walter, was it all footslogging

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Yes, meticulously written into note books, and on reference cards. Bill & I travelled all over the place.
Blackburn Library, Burnley Library, Chorley Library, Preston Record Office, Kew Public Record Office, and you made sure you could read what you had written, before you left, its a long trip back if you can't read one anothers writing.

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Well I can remember you showing me some of your records a while ago Walter, it was just fascinating to see the hard work that you and Bill put into this task, certainly a worthwhile job

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So was Jim on the roll of Honour ie on your list of names Walter?

Phil

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He's not in the list of names, several men were reported in the newspapers, at the time, as being members of a church or chapel, & that their name is on their roll of honour, yet their names have not been found on those rolls.
Retlaw.

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Spent two hours this afternoon in the store room at Accy Library, and the United Methodist Chapel R-o-H, Moscow Mill St, is not there, so it looks like it was not amongst those rescued.

Retlaw.

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What a shame.....you would think something like a roll of honour would be the first thing to be saved...

Phil

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Until Bill Turner wrote his books on the Accrington Pals, & poeple in other towns started to write books on their Pals Battalions, very few people had any interest in those Rolls of Honour & Memorials, it wasn't until the late 1990's that people started to take an interest.
By then it was too late, many Schools, Church, Chapels, Clubs etc had been closed or demolished.
Its only because a few, up & down the country, with similar interests in WW1, like Bill & I, that so many names are still known.

Retlaw.

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Walter, you and bill are to be congratulated then....well done, and thanks for all your help in my search....

Phil