Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Not according to this article in todays Times...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1575570,00.html

I wondered how long it would take before he reverted to type. It will be remembered that Mandelson was one of the architects of New Labour. A close friend of Tone and Cherie. What was that criticism of New labour I heard a while back? Oh yes, I remember now, "More conservative than the Conservatives" Well for those of us who remember the twilight of the last Conservative administration, doesn't this article prove the truth of that statement.

Errmmm, have you heard the one about Margaret Beckett and John Prescott and the free flats in Admiralty Arch? Or David Blunkett still occupying the Home Secretary's official residence?

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Why does none of that surprise me?

I really think we need a change of government on 5 May

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

nope don't suprise me neither,but i honestly think labour are best of an exceedingly BAD bunch.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Another 5 years of broken promises - yeah, sounds great to me.

Not.



I was at a client meeting last night, and he said that he was always a labour supporter, but not any longer, due to too many broken promises.

We have had 8 years of it, and I've had enough, quite frankly

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

If New labour was a business, it's name would be Rover.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Sounds like you are a die hard Tory. Me and all my mates are happy-ish with Labour and will be voting Labour again. And if there was any doubt I don't need 10 words, just two. Michael Howard. However Hyndburn has really benefited and things have never been better in our time.

Considering in 97 the country was down and out it has been a hard slog back but you have to give credit where credit is due. Things are on the up in housing, crime, education, employment and economy, health IN HYNDBURN. Despite the tribal politics it has been 8 years of steady [not spectacular] improvment.

Thats why the only card the Tories have is their old dirty tricks cards of trying to 'lie thing up'. Hospital cleaniless, immigration. They wont talk about the other 3. Dog whistle politics for the minority 30%.

This election has been charaterised by rabid Tories, filling messageboards, phoning up talk shows and trying to 'speak for everyone' that the country is going to the dogs. Its been an energetic campaign but the Tories havent learned the lessons on 97. People dont want bull, they want improvments. Just list them around Hyndburn. Things we never had or have any chance of under Howard. He'll take them all away. Tax cuts for the rich to pay for half price private health care for the rich!!

£35bn worth of cuts including the new deal. So thats no youth traing in Hyndburn, no housing investment and cutting millions from Hyndburns housing programme, scrapping of elevate, scrapping the schools improvment programme, scrapping sure start and childrens centres, cutting police numbers [and probably putting police back in panda cars to make further savings!!] and community wardens [as the local Tories have done already!]. Removing billions from the NHS into private health care for the rich. I am not having any of that. The government has goven millions to Hyndburn Borough Council. Thats right Tory controlled and bankcrupt.

Lets remember the days when we had the softest home secretary and yobs running amok - yes Michael Howard. Where were the tough measures then? I cant remember any? I can tell you this though. We have just had the toughest home secretary I can remember and tough laws have been passed. Most recently the Housing Act to stamp on landlords. Backed up with record police numbers.

Lets remember the last time Tories were getting all aggressive 'about our country'. The minimum wage was going to destroy business and lose millions of jobs. Labour couldn't handle the economy and the country would go belly up within the first term of a Labour govt. All I have to say to rabid Tories is if you go into a bookmakers, make sure you leave your wallet at home. Your predictions aren't very good.

A vote for Howard is vote for a bunch of cranks and crackpots who care very little for places like Hyndburn who have benfitted under Labour. No a leopard does not change its spots Mr Poll Tax, you keep appealing to the ignorant and the selfish and we'll keep voting against you.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Housing costs were spiralling out of control, and are still too expensive to the first time buyer

Crime is up, yes, and worryingly, assault type crime is on the increase.

Education? Top up fees, pricing many students out of further education

Employment? Tell that to the Rover ex-employees

Economy. Even that is starting to slip, now that the Tory legacy is well and truly over.


Oh, and I won't be voting Tory this time either!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

And whose the only party talking about affordable homes and who is putting millions into the RSLs and the Housing Corp!!

I presume that is lifted straight from the 1979 manifesto. All I can say is what an absolute load of cock and bull. Nationally [overall] EVERYONE [of any worth] says its down. OUR OWN INSPECTOR IN HYNDBURN says its DOWN [see last weeks Observer]. The residents of Peel Ward say its DOWN and I know its down and I actually know the figures. ITS DOWN MASSIVELY. Politicians under Labour can check the figures and make the police accountable. IF THERE WAS JUST ONE REASON TO VOTE TORIES OUT AND LABOUR IN IT IS CRIME.

Stupid statements are why the Conservatives are where they are with 170 seats.

Education is from birth to death. I dont know of any top up fees for people under 16. I dont agree with top up fees but do you think the Tories are going to reverse them??!!

I do know class sizes under 30, teaching assistants, pre school, sure start, post school, banning the sale of sports pitches to stop schools just surviving, childrens centres, more teacher training, 600 schools with outside toilets under the Tories in 97 and now school refurbishments at evry 2ndary school in Hyndburn and many primary schools. When you drive around, have a look.

And the Tories care??! Dont be stupid. One factory isnt an argument especially when it was run by 4 crooks fiddling the books, 4 known asset strippers. Nothing to do with workers or unions. Britain has several of the most efficient car plants in europe unionised eleswhere. Its just political rubbish.

It was over apparently in 97 when Labour took over. Then in 20012 when you lost again and going downhill with the minimun wage and theres a black hole and year on year Brown overforcasts the economy and we are all doomed.

NOW FOR REALITY. Longest period of economic growth, lowest period of inflation in 40 years, lowest interest rates for 40 years blah blah.. facts you cant argue with. Evry time some Tory says not only will growth decline but the economy will go bust what happens, growth exceeds all forcasts.. you cant argue with that and to do so means another 4 years in opposition because your suddenly not credible.

Well the BNP are standing!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

this one i agree with graham on totally

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

I don't trust any of the parties to run the country........I know that is not the answer.
As time goes on I am finding the arguments that each party put forward increasingly tedious....and it looks like a situation where whoever can cause most discredit to the other parties is going to be the winner.

If I vote at this election, I will choose the candidate with a pin.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

The comment about crime was taken directly from your post Graham.


Getting a bit hot under the collar are we?!?!!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Sorry Graham,

I hope you don't mind me cutting down some of this bumf. I assume its an extract from the junk mail you and your mates have been ramming through peoples' letterboxes over the last week or so, but really, it does get repetitive.

May I ask if you truly do believe that the overall levels of crime are lower now than 8 years ago? If you do, then I suspect you are the only one on this site and that you are in fact, so far away from reality a visit to the psyhiatrist might be in order.It really does not take much common sense to see that crime has been on increasing for years now - under the Tories as well as Labour - and that he only success labour as had in fighting crime is in the manipulation of the crime statistics.

I wonder if you could possibly explain to me - and to the rest of the Accy Web - why, if the economy is in such good shape, it is neccessary for the Chancellor to borrow £35billion in order to maintain his spending levels ? Could you also let us know the number of jobs lost in manufacturing over the last 8 years and the increase in the number of non-front line jobs in the public sector. Could you also indicate the extent of the increase in the number of people claiming disability allowance and then reconcile that with this wonderful new NHS you seem so proud of. While you're at it, could you tell us the number of deaths from MRSA last year, compared to 1997, and while you're at it, you may as well remind us of the numbers of asylum seekers last year compared to 1997.

Cheers

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

How many of the statistics that Labour and the Conservative Parties are using have been fiddled with........?
We know that certain categories of the unemployed have been taken out of the monthly figures........and if we are talking about interest rates.......I think I would rather pay 10% interest on a £70,000 house than 5% on a £200,000 house.
And as for crime.......Charles Clarke tells us that violent crime is up because of the way it is recorded.........well, I for one don't believe him.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Graham Jones claims that "in 1997 this country was down and out". That is complete and utter rubbish. In 1997 Labour inherited a very healthy economy, which they have been flogging to bits ever since. Perhaps GJ is not old enough to remember 1979, when Labour had to go cap in hand to the International Monetary Fund, because we were on the rocks. Yes, the same IMF who are now warning Labour that their spending plans are ludicrous and they will need to borrow £35 million.

Labour = higher spending for fewer results, and higher taxes. If you want to pay an extra 10% in tax, I don't.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Just had a conversation with my sister who lives up westend in Ossy, she was robbed the other night while they were asleep, took the gass doors off the conservertory and took anything they could carry including my 9yr old nephews Football kit!!! and his savings bank. I asked her if it happened often and she said all the time, I said I had seen that crime was down in Hyndburn and after she stopped laughing she said she had not known it as bad as it is now. Seems someones idea of less crime is not everyones.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Sounds like you are a die hard Tory. Me and all my mates are happy-ish with Labour and will be voting Labour again. And if there was any doubt I don't need 10 words, just two. Michael Howard. However Hyndburn has really benefited and things have never been better in our time.




HYNDBURN REALLY BENIFITED.................(where)...............?
HAPPY-ISH................OR....NOT SURE.................................?
HEALTH................................FIND ME A DENTIST...............?
1ST LAW PASSED BY LABOUR........LOWER THE AGE LEVEL FOR YOUNG BOYS!
LETS NOT SMACK OUR KIDS!
LETS GET RID OF THE HUNTING TRADITION!
LETS HAVE MORE SINGLE PARENT FAMILYS!
LETS CARRY ON PRIVATISATION!




this countrys in bits!!!!!!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

...and who was it that has let them get away with it for so long?????

Wake up and look around you.

There's a real world out there with real people, working hard to have a decent standard of living, being screwed left right and centre with stealth taxes to pay for Tony's antics.

Pensioners watch out, you're next on his hit list! Don't be fooled into thinking that you'll get a decent pension just because you've paid your contributions all your life.

And woe betide anyone who scrimped and scraped to save carefully so they can have a few little extras. He's having that off you too!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Not many labour supporters so far then!!!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

As a side issue, I have just, in ten years of residence at this address, recieved the first ever piece of election literature from the Labour Party . This election must obviously be more hotly contested than I previously thought.

However nice it is that I am at least recognised as an elector this year, I rather wish they had saved themselves the trouble.

One side of the glossy A4 sheet informs me, twice, that "Britain" is "moving forward" and also that "Britain is Working" and urges me not to "let the Tories wreck it".
After eight years in power and the countless billions of taxpayers hard-earned money, some of it mine, that New Labour have administered, I would be scandalised and horrified to learn that the country was doing anything other than "moving forward".
Do they have so little confidence in the results of their stewardship of the national economy that they feel the need to reassure me on this point, not once, but twice?

As for the "Tories", I am sure that if the Conservative party took it into their collective heads to wreck anything there is very little that I, as an individual, could do to prevent them. What a ridiculously redundant phrase.

There then follows a bulleted list that appears to be a minor masterpiece of hopeful ambiguity. It neither says that this is what New Labour have accomplished in their previous eight year administration, nor does it say that the list is what they hope to achieve during the term of the new parliament.

Let us examine just one of these bulleted statements, which will probably give a flavour of the rest of them.

"Your child achieving more
modern schools for all, strong discipline, and a guaranteed place in training, sixth form or an apprenticeship."

Firstly, the comma after "discipline" is ungrammatical, secondly, I do not have any children.
"Modern schools for all" Clearly whoever wrote this has never been to Hyndburn, where a some schools are still housed in premises that were constructed before World War One.
"Strong Discipline", this from a party which has legislated to ban corporal punishment in schools and presides over an education system that is seeing teachers leave the profession in droves because they cannot cope with the levels of ill-dicipline and classsroom violence, is a bit rich to say the least.
"training, sixth-form or apprenticeship" A cynic would say that raising the school leaving age in this way places an unfair burden on an already groaning system and is merely an underhanded, but socially acceptable, way of massaging the youth unemployment figures. As an employer, I will be considering taking on an apprentice in a year or so. The financial incentives the government offer, commonly known as a bribe, are certainly tempting but must be weighed against the costs in time, patience and waste of having to re-educate any prospective candidate.

On the other side of the sheet, the New Labour candidate, Greg Pope, is given the space to observe that "this election isn't just about policies, it's also about values and I wanted to share with you the values of what kind of MP I want to be".

I find this a bit odd, considering that he has been in the job for the last eight years. You would imagine that he would have already figured out the "values of what kind of MP I want to be", or am I misreading this and he is announcing something of a damascene conversion to reality?

He then goes on somewhat confusingly, in another bulleted list, to describe some of his beliefs rather than his values.

"Every MP should know that you should be true to yourself, not a Party line". While confusing tenses might be acceptable in the middle of a heated exchange on a message board, from a Bachelor of Arts with an honours degree who is seeking re-election as a Member of Parliament it must inspire some cause for concern.

And does he seriously expect us to believe that voting against the government a mere 35 times out of a total of over 800 possible occaisions in the last Parliament is a good example of someone who does not follow the "Party line"?

The rest of the drivel on Greg's side of the page could be picked apart just as easily,if I had the time but, to be honest, I can't be bothered.!

As I said above, I wish that they had not bothered sending it. Another one for filing in the white sack I think.

I can hardly wait for the Conservative Election Leaflet:rolleyes:

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

The problem has got to the stage where even if the two main parties made a statement of their policy we've just stopped believing them. About three or four years ago, the Conservatives had slumped really badly and there was the opportunity for one of the other also rans to make a real attempt to become the opposition which would have put them in a good position for this election. What happened, the Tories started to make a comeback and now we're in a boxing match again.

I'm fed up with it all. Which is another problem because I think that's the case up and down the country. I predict we'll have the lowest turn out ever for a national election.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

The government blame apathy for the low turn out at elections........postal voting was supposed to sort out that little problem......instead it caused more problems.......electoral fraud.
Can't the major parties see that people don't vote because they don't feel that they are listened to, and that whether they vote or not it won't change anything.

Tony Blair went on one of his walkabouts today and was taken to task by a student......he left looking a bit sheepish.

British politics are a joke......all froth and bubble with no real substance......and they expect us to swallow it!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

One of the things that I find truly worrying is that no one seems to be using the War in Iraq and the Prime Minister's lies to the country and to parliament as a stick with which to beat New Labour.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Another problem with politics in the UK is that we have so many parties that the elected one is not actually the one that necessarily got the most votes. Say for example Labour won, they had 45% of the vote, Conservatives 40%, Liberal 10% and others the remaining 5%. That means that 55% of the people who voted were voting against the elected party. Add to that the fact that only about 35% of the population vote anyway and that means that a miniscule number of people are actually voting for the party that won.

Got to say that the one thing I really like about Liberals is their call for proportional representation. Not sure it could work in practice but it does seem unfair that a party could win one seat with x no. of votes and then lose another seat with the same number of votes or more.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

I think that I too would be in favour of proportional representation. It would certainly bring an end to the present schoolyard squabbling. I also like the idea of replacing the council tax with a local income tax.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Well A-B there is no cure for that.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Hmmm. I think I will have a few stiff gins and an early night, everything will look different in the cold light of day.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

no no a-b nobody becomes one of them.lol

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

That's just plain silly. If you think the countries in biits then you are obviously a die hard Tory to whom political dogma and doctrine is more important than reality. You cant be taken seriously.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

i too think the country has gone to the dogs,and you can't call me a die hard tory graham, i have always voted labour since long before you were old enough to vote.if you think people cannot be taken seriously who do not think everything in the gardens rosy,then you are doing sociaism a disservice and its hard for me to take you seriosly,sorry if that offends you its just the way i see it.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

The only people that can't be taken seriously, Graham, is this shambles of a so-called government.

Just suppose, for a moment, that messrs Blair, Prescott, Straw, et all were given the job of running a pub in Accy. What would be the result? To begin with, they would have a nice little advertising campaign saying how wonderful things were going to be. "Come to the Labour Britannia", they would say, "where you're sure of a warm welcome and the beer is free"

Every scumbag and scrounger from far and near is attracted to this delightful establishment, and despite getting well out of order, no effort is made to remove them..."Stay on," says Landlord Blair "there's more to come."

Meanwhile, chief barman Brown shouts "Come lads....how many of you have got cousins in Africa who can't be here today.....well don't worry...I've just nicked 3 billion quid from the till, and thats going their way, pronto!!!"

"Call the cops" yells one of the old locals "I've just been thumped in the bogs"

"Who was it ?" answers Tony

"Your potboy, Prezza"

"That's OK then," replies Tone, "in any case,the cops are all busy filling in their minority awareness questionaires....but the wardens will be along next year. If you're hurt, don't worry...go to the hospital. There's lots of new bureaucrats up there to help you"

"Hey Up..." cries another of the locals "Whats happened t'dartboard"

"Dartboards now banned" cries Tone.."No more traditional sports..."


"Help" yells another, in obvious distress, " that blokes just nicked my wallet"

"Who"

"The Afgan over there"

"Don't worry" says Tone, "I'll get Cherie. He'll obviously need a good lawyer. The locals will pay for her"

"Yo" comes a collective cry from the taproom "Beers flat and watered down"

"No its not" says Tone "but don't worry, the prices will double if I'm still around by May 6th"


Yes, welcome to the new Britannia.

Personally, though, I prefer a good traditional pub - the Stag,the best in Hyndburn - as run by by good friend and fine Host, Staggeringman. So Graham, instead of wasting your time on the hustings, why don't you pop along there , saturday night, 30th April, and meet him and some of the the gang from on here?

We're not that, bad,really.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

...and who was it that has let them get away with it for so long?????

TONY BLAIR & GORDON BROWN IN 2001, I ACCEPT!!!!

Wake up and look around you.

TO SEE WHAT, WHAT YOU SEE OR WHAT I SEE OR BOTH?

There's a real world out there with real people, working hard to have a decent standard of living, being screwed left right and centre with stealth taxes to pay for Tony's antics.

TAXES ARE UP, PUBLIC SPENDING IS UP, NO ARGUMENTS ABOUT THAT.

PEOPLE BEING SCREWED, I DONT KNOW HOW YOU MAKE THAT GIANT LEAP OF AN ARGUMENT.

I WORK IN MANUFACTURIJNG AND ALL OUR INDUSTRY IS BOOMING.

2% UNEMPLOYMENT IN HYNDBURN.

ITS THE FIRST TIME EVER [SINCE 1982 WHEN I LEFT SCHOOL] I HAVE FELT CONFIDENT IN THE ECONOMY. SAME FOR ALL THE WORKING CLASS I KNOW, YOU DONT MAKE ANY SENSE ON THIS LAST POINT.

Pensioners watch out, you're next on his hit list! Don't be fooled into thinking that you'll get a decent pension just because you've paid your contributions all your life.

THIS IS JUST TORY HYSTERICS NOW, WHAT STARTED AS SENSIBLE IS BECOMING POLITCAL DOGMA.

MY GRAN IS 92, SHE HAS NEVER HAD SO GOOD. THERE ARE SOME DOWNS [COUNCIL TAX] AND SOME UPS [PENSION CREDITS, EXTRA ALLOWANCES]

PENSIONERS HAVE A MINIMUM INCOME GUARANTEE,THE ONES YOU SLAG OFF FOR NOT SAVING ENOUGH DURING THEIR WORKING LIFE AND ARE RELIANT ON THOSE EXTRA ALOWANCES THE TORIES NEVER GAVE WHILST PEGGING RISES TO BELOW INFLATION.

AND TAXES HAVE GONE INTO EDUCATION AND NHS, THE LATTER VERY BENEFICIAL FOR PENSIONERS.

And woe betide anyone who scrimped and scraped to save carefully so they can have a few little extras. He's having that off you too!

YOU'VE GONE OFF AT THE DEEP END. LABOUR HAS A 24 POINT LEAD ON THE ECONOMY AND A 10 PERCENT LEAD ON TAXATION.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

This Government has done more to erode personal freedom than any previous one, Oliver Cromwell not excepted.

And the only thing Tealeaf missed was Landlord Blair saying "No mate, you can't have beer, it's bad for you. But don't worry, my tap water is only £2.80 a pint".

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

[QUOTE=Graham Jones


PENSIONERS HAVE A MINIMUM INCOME GUARANTEE,THE ONES YOU SLAG OFF FOR NOT SAVING ENOUGH DURING THEIR WORKING LIFE AND ARE RELIANT ON THOSE EXTRA ALOWANCES THE TORIES NEVER GAVE WHILST PEGGING RISES TO BELOW INFLATION.

[/QUOTE]

Where did I "slag off" anyone? If you read it properly you'll realise the point I was trying to make was that none of the pensioners get a decent amount...AND... that even those who can manage to save a few extra quid by doing without over the years(something that was very much encouraged when the older generation was growing up) would get a double whammy by getting even less!

If the state pension was paid at a reasonable level and there was no means testing to get it, everyone would get a fair deal. No one deserves the indignity of being means tested just to get their pension.

It's not a "free lunch". Those who can have paid for it already through their tax and NI contributions and those who can't I am happy to assist with my own.

PS: Not all anti-Blairites are Tory. You ass.u.me too much!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

I Work In Manufacturijng And All Our Industry Is Booming.



Mg Rovers New Model Is Out On Monday.............?
The New Model Is The P45.

Booming Is It .

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

I think Labour should do more about pensions and means testing is not the ideal solution, however there are more pensioners than workers can pay for. But to pay for the ideal means taxes up and you make a big point against that. Running the govt isnt easy with so many expectations.

Its obvious that Labour recognises the problem but can't afford the ideal solution and you end up with means testing and allowances which old folk don't particularly like. All theses extras paid for by stealth taxes, as is the NHS funding. Its a catch 22.

You have to put in context which I am sure you do, the Conservatives history of cutting pensions through dodgy indexation.

However those that have paid just the basic [and SERPS has been around since the early 70s & Barabara Castle] could be criticised for not putting anything away and saving and therefore why should they deserve anything at all?

As Michael Howard said, 'I dont mind a proper debate' and I would add "and I can accept well thought out arguments', not neccessarily agree entirely, but accept none the less.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

British car plants are the most efficient in europe so if the economy is going down the plug on the car industry why not the others. The argument doesnt hold any water.

MGs problems appear unique. However it has cost 60 Accy jobs this week, may be the whole 200 as AT Mouldings were 50% reliant on MG. Govt Office has been notified to see about the redundancy help offered to MG.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

how many british made car manufacturers are there in britain?
you said that industry is booming then you turn around and say 60 jobs to go in accrington?
make your mind up!
its not the only place in accrington that is laying people off either!
the british car plants are here in this country because the government give them so much bloody money to set up here and keep as many as possible off the dole...ie nissan u.k

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Which Labour Liar was it that took us to war in Iraq........let me think......oh yes it was Tony Blair.
How can we trust the politicians when they obviously do not listen to the electorate.......and forgive me for saying this but aren't we the ones who pay these people.....?

Violent crime is down..........or so our esteemed Pm tells us......but yet daily we hear of violent attacks on people who are doing no more than going about their daily business.

Tony told us he was going to be tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime......they tell us that lots of the crime is fuelled by binge drinking.......so what do the government do but change the law so that pubs can be open for 24/7.

And you think I want more of this.......?

I haven't the foggiest who I will vote for.........but I do not think it will be Labour.

As I said in an earlier post......choosing a party to vote for is like deciding whether I want to be shot or poisoned...... the outcome is the same!

Whoever I vote for will not listen to what I want.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

The elected politicians will give me what they THINK is good for me.........politics stinks!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

I see we have the ukip standing in accy now, along with the bnp.Should spice up the voting in town this time around.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Funny, isn't it, how Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United States and even our European partners all seem to be able to manage to pay decent, if not in some cases generous, pensions without having to risk bankrupting the country or resorting to means testing. Could government difficulty with the state pension not have more to do with the half arsed way it is set up and their inability or unwillingness to change it?

I always thought that politics was supposed to be 'the art of the possible' not the art of making excuses and wriggling out of your responsibilities.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Or dilute the opposition!

They say that you shouldn't vote for the party leader but you should vote for the best person in your constituency. So Cllr Jones, what has Greg Pope actually done for this town? I don't want to know how he voted on the war, or stuff like that - just tell me what he has done for this town.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

I have saved up and contributed to a private pension scheme just so that I could have some comfort as I get older........I thought that I was doing the right thing, but by having done this I may have excluded myself from state benefits.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

It only "doesn't hold water " if you walk round with your eyes closed and your ears blocked.

You can be as efficient as you like, but it doesn't really make any difference if you can't persuade people to buy what you make - just ask the former shareholders and workers of Platt Saco -Lowell!

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

I have a couple of ideas to save money - stop Social Fund loans would be a start.

Pay benefits for 6 months only, as in America.

Means-test free healthcare. As far as I know, most (if not all) Western Countries have to pay. It may sound extreme at the moment, but in these countries it is normal. That would raise a lot of revenue, which would go some way towards providing half-decent state pensions.

On a side note; if anyone is considering paying £50 per month towards a pension, you may as well not bother, unless you are 5 or less. Get a good financial adviser, who will be able to give you a much better idea of what you need to pay towards your retirement to make it worthwhile.

I have seen too many people who say that they saved for a pension and complain that it is not enough to live on, when they have not paid enough into it in the first place.

And that's not a dig at anyone, that is speaking from experience.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Well doesn't that say everything about New Labour's attitude to the pensions crisis.

It was recently estimated by an independent financial advisor, that to have a private pension which would pay me £20,000 per year (not as excessive as it sounds) when I retire at 65, in fifteen years time, I will need to have a pension fund of £400,000. When I stopped laughing, I told them where they could stick their impartial financial advice. How many of Graham's constitutents could hope to amass even a fraction of such a fund by working in Accrington?

I fail to see the point of paying over a third of my pension contributions in management fees and then to have to purchase an annuity which is then lost completely on my death. It strikes me as legalised robbery, and I will have none of it.

When I started work I was told that by making national insurance contributions I was ensuring that I would have a pension which would support me on my retirement. I was not told that because the government could not organise the proverbial brewery entertainment that I could not rely on the State Pension being anything more than a top-up or that if I wanted to enjoy a retirement above basic subsistence level I would have to begin contributing more than half my weekly wages to a private pension fund. None of us were!

And so for all the thirty five years of my working life, successive governments, have used my national insurance contributions to finance one hare-brained scheme of social engineering after another or to prop up an ailing and mismanaged economy instead of investing it as they should have done. We were sold the ideal of care from the cradle to the grave and we fell for it, little realising that when something sounds too good to be true it is usually because it is.

It strikes me that the Labour Party, as the originators of this fiction of security in old age, have either the responsibility of delivering it, or of returning our investment.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Governments could help a lot by ensuring that tax incentives went to the people who are saving for retirement.

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

Has anyone heard the latest? - probably not.

The Government have just passed the Inquiries Act 2005. This effectively means that if the Government does not like the direction a public enquiry is taking, they can sack the entire panel and bring the enquiry to a premature end. The Minister concerned has to give a reason, but he/she can simply say that the cost was becoming excessive. Obviously the Gov. don't feel that they can always rely on Tony's cronies, like Lord Hutton, to bring in a politically acceptable conclusion.

Also, why are we insisting on deporting the wife and two children (both born here) of a hospital consultant (a useful member of society) on rather spurious grounds, when we allow Abu Hamza, who has publicly vowed to bring terror to Britain, to remain here and live on benefits! - Then Blair says that Howard is "racist" to bring the immigration issue into the election.

Who is holding the keys of the asylum now?

Re: Can a leopard change its spots?
 

What I can't understand is how our esteemed Pm can keep getting Asylum and Immigration mixed up.......doesn't he know that they are two different issues......?