Tough Policing
 

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that sounds better than owt iv'e heard recently,should be all areas where theres problems though, if the police responded quicker 10 years ago though my late mum-in-law might still be here.

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hope they move in on aldi carpark next its rife with underage drinkers and drug dealers who trade their goods

not only are they selling to the kids on the car park they do their buying of supplies there too

yes i have reported it but nothing visable done so far

good that they are fining people at least in one area i hope it catches on

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It is about time the Police spread this to the whole of the Borough. We get large groups congregating in Rhyddings Park Oswaldtwistle (30-40 is common) in the evening especially at weekend. They damage the kiddies play area and smash beer bottles etc.

Where are the Police?

Oh yes they had an operation on teenage drinking on the streets of Oswaldtwistle. They targeted these groups drinking on the street and cured the problem according to Inspector Platt at the Area Council Meeting.

What a load of cobblers. All they did was move them into the park so they can cause damage where no one can see it happening. Report it to the polics and what happens? Nothing.

Thank you Inspector Platt for moving not curing the problem.

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got to agree with you there neil, but accy cop shop closes now at night its all done from greenhill in blackburn, bet they tell us they are short staffed, (my eye). cutting costs is what's happening & at what price may i ask?

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Blair said there were a lot more ploice now than there ever were. So where are they? Probably filling in all the forms that the new middle management have created.

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Well done to the police who attended these incedents. I don't care if they raise enough revenue from nicking scrotes like these, that it becomes another form of taxation. The law is there, let's see it administered more. It shouldn't be a case of three strikes and you're out; an offence is just that, so nail 'em at the first misdemeanor.
I think the police force has become more demoralised because when they have done the leg-work and nailed the criminals, the bleeding heart judiciary & magistrates dish out inadequate sentences.

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good point sparkologist the doogooder brigade have a lot to answer for.

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I agree totally. The first time the Police catch someone could be the tenth time the person has commited the crime. 1st strike and your out is correct. Zero tolerance.

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Does anyone else find it suspicious that this initiative has kicked in a couple of weeks before an election? Oh, yes Mr Blair your policing policies do work and of course we're happy to vote for you!!!!!!!!

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I'm confused. So tickets/fines are issued. Sounds great in theory. They don't pay. It goes to court for non-payement of fines. They are ordered to pay £1/week from their income.

How long before these yobs stop being frightened of this new initiaive, and start using the fines to light their spliffs?

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another good point you can't get blood out of a stone,may i suggest the BIRCH as an alternative?

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And just before the end of the financial year a big push on drinking and driving, put some money in the coffers.
You can bet that after the election who ever wins you won't see it happen again until the next one. Why only peel ward? doesn't it happen else where? or have the mighty policys of succesive goverment initiatives cured crime in all other areas of Hyndburn?

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If you dont pay you get a criminal conviction and a larger fine. If you do within 28 days you dont get a conviction. Tickets have been given out since November but now they are for under 16's as well [parents have to pay]. It has been getting tighter for over 2 years now so no its nothing to do with the election as its Lancs Constabulary doing it. I understand one individual was told if he came back he's get another ticket making that £160 for a nights yobery. I cant speak for Ossy. Maybe they will follow suit?

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All we need now is a Labour Council to enforce a Zero Tolerance approach [which I have been trying to do anyway] and Street Wardens teams to tackle the Environmental Issues in as plain and effective manner as the yobs and junkies



dont be so bl...y political any council that gets in wants to lay the law down, lets get behind them who get behind the people that put them there. all politicians are the same give them an inch they take a mile.

yes i agree with your point but to be so pollitically biased on a friendly site like accy web will not get you the votes your after.

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A good thing in theory, but if the police move them on, won't they just go somewhere else. The coppice bowling green is clear of idiots, and so is Arden hall, but i can assure you there are groups of them down my backstreet drinking at all hours of the weekend!!. It's pretty awfull to see teenagers walking the streets with cans of super strength on a saturday afternoon.

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Just a question, what if their parents can`t afford to pay? In my youth if the police had brought me back to my house my dad ( or even worse my mum) would have given me a right pasting. I presume the parents of these odious cretins don`t give a toss what their little darlings are up to

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This is very encouraging and for every scrote that is dealt with gets a cheer from me. I thought that was excellent making him walk home in the early hours they should have taken his shoes off him before setting him free.
I wouldn't say that Peel Ward has been a no-go area for drunken yobs for 12 months but it is quieter at weekends. As they are still able to purchase alcohol at the Off Licence not 200 yards from your home and very annoyingly Netto who don't give a toss, it's a question of where to do the drinking, the favourites after Arden Hall and the Coppice seem to be back streets and Oakhill Park so its a case of being moved on and not stopping the source, but it's a start.

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Maybe these yobs have moved on to the Marsden Street area......Factory bottom......my dear old mum is constantly disturbed by loud mouthed youths drinking and getting up to no good in this area.
She says that there is drug dealing and cars screeching about at 2 and 3 in the morning......a Beat bobby giving out fines would be welcome by her.

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I think it is not much of a start.
Moving them on just means someone else well get the problem.

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Of course someone else gets the problem but at least a few of them will be £80 lighter in their pocket.

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It would appear so Busman. When I read that story in the paper I could not believe what I was reading. We need tough punishment to fit the crime. What do you think would have happened to him in Thailand?

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You know l disagree with you on this one.

l think the lighting will protect the new play area. They will be too visible to enjoy themselves there.

True, they'll only go somewhere else. We.ve had a load of them down at he benches at the nature reserve. Nesting birds have been disturbed as well as old roosters like me. The police have been very good though.

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I think the lights will be a good idea in Rhyddings. These scum scuttle around in dark places where they can hide, a bit like rats and woodlice. They won't find it so appealing if it's brightly lit and they can be seen easily. Trouble is they'll all go down to the nature reserve and make the problem worse there.

I know it's seen as a soft option but there should be more things provided for young people - theatre groups, youth clubs, football clubs, dj schools etc. I know some of these things exist but they should be bigger and better promoted so more youths get involved. Another way, and again I realise is that it's seen as a soft option, is to engage them in doing something for the area that they will then be committed to protecting - planting a garden, creating some artwork, etc. I have seen it work in other areas but I realise that it's viewed as the leftwing namby pamby approach but let's face it - the tough police approach doesn't solve the problem it just moves it elsewhere.

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I am still waiting to see tough police action in Oswaldtwistle.

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don't think its a soft option purplelass there was more of those things when i was young,they seemed to acheive summat.was far less vandals and beanheads about,still happened but no where near the extent it does today,but first and foremost to me respect starts with upbringing.

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The police have a hard job, and being understaffed doesn't help. It's not just the Judiciary who cock things up, the Crown Prosecution Service throw a lot out before it even comes to Court. There is no fully manned police station in Accrington. There was years ago, when there were not the drug/drink problems that there are now.

Perhaps Councillor Jones would like to tell us where the money is coming from to pay for all the extra police when/if we get a Labour Council? - Council Tax, of course, is the answer, and a huge rise is the solution to it all - except how much would be wasted on "consultation" and "administration? I think this is where we came in .....

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Tough policing is fine; what about tough sentencing? Here is something that you won't find in Labour's election manifesto:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFr...585685,00.html

I wonder what Councillor Jones has to say about this?

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read it- if thats the case tough policing is about as much use as a fart in a spacesuit.

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They put lights in the park in Clayton........if you go into the park in a morning you can see the discarded lager cans........alcopop bottles and pizza and fast food rubbish.
It appears that yobs congregate there at night.......it certainly is not a place I would be happy for kids to play in.

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According to Graham Jones, crime in Hyndburn has decreased since New labour decided to get tough with criminals (and woe betide anyone who disagrees with him).


How odd then to pick up this weekend’s copy of The Accrington Observer and Times and read, with mounting Horror, the following:


Page 1. “ A Grandad had his head split open in a terrifying attack when he tried to stop a mob of fifty teenagers smashing up his neighbours home.”


Page 2. “Teachers and pupils of Broadfield School in Fielding Lane, Oswaldtwistle, are taking a stand after thugs broke a school gate, poured milk over the headteacher’s car kicked felt off the roof and left dozens of beer cans in the grounds”


Page 4 “A banned driver caught behind the wheel of his wife’s car was driving while in breach of two disqualifications, and without insurance”


Page 5 “Cruel vandals kicked a hen to death and threw its nest, containing twelve eggs over a wall after breaking into a chicken pen in Great Harwood”


Page 5 (again) Peter Cunliffe has appeared before Burnley magistrates accused of raping a 14 year old. The defendant is charged with making threats to kill, two counts of assault by penetration, two allegations of rape, assault causing actual bodily harm, abduction and attempted abduction.”


Page 5 (yet again) Banned driver caught on CCTV. Steven Leggat was caught behind the wheel on consecutive days the first while leaving a garage forecourt without paying. The day he should have been in court for the first offence he was caught leaving another garage forecourt without paying. Legatt, who has six previous convictions for driving while disqualified, was given 160 days in jail.


Page 7 On Ormerod Street, which Cllr Jones believes to be a safe area – “Violence erupted in an Accrington street when an argument between two youths boiled over into a full-scale brawl involving 20 men. Apparently the “ethnic minority team” is dealing with inquiries.


Page 7 (again) “A man suffered a fractured jaw, a broken arm, broken ribs and facial bruising when he was attacked after being lured into Gatty Park. Apparently the man was unconscious for two to three hours after the attack and had the night been colder he could well have died!”


That is just the main articles. There is in addition to all of the above, twenty three and a half column inches of court appearances and twelve column inches of reported thefts and arson.


And that is just this week Councillor! "Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime", or just talking tough?

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With reference to Graham Jones' first post in the thread, "Tough Policing," can someone please explain why the post has been deleted. I thought the thread in praise of the police and their tougher application of the law was well written and extremely valid.
The only bit of the post that I didn't like was the last couple of sentences when it meandered into the realms of party political broadcast saying what would hypothetically happen if or when the Labour group take control of the local council.

Why the deleted post? Has a dummy spitting exercise taken place here?

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scroll through the old observors in the public libary graham go back 3 or 4 decades,there was crime then theres always been crime but tell me honestly if you dare there was very little violent crime in comparison with the last 10 years or so.theres your facts.

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Well spoted Sparkie, your right it has been deleted, and by mr jones himself at that!
I wonder why???

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Isn't that annoying, I hope I don't have to bring in the evil "NO EDITS ALLOWED" function of accyweb again... Doing a search on Grahams posts reveal another one that has been edited out. A good idea to use the quote function when replying, thus capturing the posts in case people decide to change there minds later on!

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For Crown Prosecution Service read Criminal Protection Service

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well what a surprise,would have thought that one who quotes joe strummer would not cut and run,still lifes full of surprises.

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You mean like this, Royski? :D

If we were to quote a post, lest it be deleted, we would incur the wrath of our resident virtual Plod, who rightly so has requested quite politely that we do not fill up server space by quoting previous posts wholesale.
In this instance the thread starting post was quite long. If I were to write a post of similar size it would probably take me an hour or more to compose and type up.

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Do we then suspect that this is the last we will hear from Councillor Jones?

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Hopefully.

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Last edited by Graham Jones : 26-04-2005 at 23:13.

come on graham jones! dont be like all the other spineless amoebes,after all this is only another discussion. HEY ROYSKI FANCY RUNNING H.B.C FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE??probably do a lot better than its run now!

lets vote for royski from russia!

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Just a thought and I don’t know if this will work but can I suggest that for those of you who had read the thread in the last few days, dating back to the 26-4-05 and beyond if you open your browse and work off-line then do a search through your history you might find the missing post in your Cache. It once worked for me but you must do this off-line otherwise you may just end up refreshing your Cache when you click on the link in your History. I think.

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being a lifelong socialist i was glad to have graham onboard,even though i don't agree with everything said(thought that was democracy) but it seems to me that its okay with him long as the oppositions not too strong,COME ON graham you boarded the ship-sail with it. he who fights and runs away lives to fight another day, he who stays and stands his ground- gets his bloody clock knocked round. looks a bit like that to me.lol

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Interestingly the other post he deleted was about the two asian councillors accusing him of being a racist, quite funny that the man who supports multiculturism may have been silenced in supporting the theme. Come on Graham where's your balls man.

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Just a thought... Could it be that the local Labour party have requested of Councillor Jones that he removed the two posts in question so as not to stir up any controversy, with the elections due this week?

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I would put money on it Sparky;can't be seen to be too controversial;although branding the Accyweb as Nazi was pushing it a bit!:eek:

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What about restoring the post from a backup Roy :D

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Graham was silenced due to interest from our two local papers who took an interest in his recent postings, thanks at lot L.E.T. and Observer for your unwanted interest.

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personally speaking if the postings were accurate and truthful i myself would think that press interest would be a good thing.

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You would have thought so Cashman;given that the Papers being interested would only widen the circle of potential voters he was trying to reach....maybe there's something else here that we aren't privy too.

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On the subject that Ccllr Jones was talking about before his change of heart;on the spot penalties for offenders;a security guard in the Town Centre yesterday caught a well known shop lifter in action.He retreived the stolen goods and waited for the Police to arrive from Blackburn[!].The shoplifter was given an on the spot £80 fine;which she paid immediately and was back out on Broadway again in less than 10 mins! How on earth is that a deterrent???

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it isn't a deterant just means she will have to put some OVERTIME in retailers beware.lol

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Exactly,and had no difficulty in handing over the £80 there and then;obviously had a profitable morning helping herself in Accrington's stores.:mad:

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1) There are a lot of people with racist tendancies on here in my view.

2) I have been away and then when I cam back the General Election took over.

3) I wrote the piece in 'pub talk' and it was to be edited as the press are after the full story [thanks to someone with no respect on this site] and thats where things get get distorted if your not careful. Just not had time to edit it.

4) I think the loony left posting was a disgrace. The Lib Dems have even posted a membership form through my letterbox.

5) Labour won the GE/Labour needs to 'revaluate' the result Tony!

6) Labour held off the Tories at County Hall with a margin of 5 [from 8] and in Hyndburn there was a Labour landslide. Labour increasing majorties in 4 of the 6 seats, winning all 6, PB got stuffed alongside his predictions in Ossy.

7) Just to cheer up 'all our yesterdays crowd', Cabinet are to give the Panopticon project the green light next week as outlined in a two page report.

8) 'The Voice of Reason'... well the BNP got 4% in Hyndburn. UKIP lost their deposit and racists were kicked into touch.

Off to the pub ...

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Welcome back, Graham. No wonder they did`nt want the panopticon discussed during the election. If it goes through, I`ll be up the Coppice with my shovel. Direct action being the only way, Yesterdays crowd indeed!!

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There you have it we're yesterdays crowd with racist tendancies, stop making excuses for your disappearence Graham I spoke to the canvassers who included your fellow councillors so if you're here to stay this time please continue telling it as you see it, there's not another general election for at least 4 years, I for one don't like b******t.

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Its easier to say what you think than say what you think people want you to say.

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Quote:

1) There are a lot of people with racist tendancies on here in my view.

1/ You are absolutely correct it is your view.

Quote:

2) I have been away and then when I cam back the General Election took over.

2/ Yes, you're back I hope you're not going to use the General Election as an excuse for the next four or five years.

Quote:

3) I wrote the piece in 'pub talk' and it was to be edited as the press are after the full story [thanks to someone with no respect on this site] and thats where things get get distorted if your not careful. Just not had time to edi

3/ I've looked for this piece, forgive me, I can find no reference to it, is it on Accyweb in the 'Obbo', in the Telegraph, (don't expect respect on this site we want you to prove that you can earn respect).

Quote:

4) I think the loony left posting was a disgrace. The Lib Dems have even posted a membership form through my letterbox.

4/ Any looney left posting is a disgrace, have you ever read what they are trying to say? Just shows how desperate the Lib Dems were for members until twenty four hours ago I don't think they will want you now.

Quote:

5) Labour won the GE/Labour needs to 'revaluate' the result Tony!

5/ You said it no-one else.

Quote:

6) Labour held off the Tories at County Hall with a margin of 5 [from 8] and in Hyndburn there was a Labour landslide. Labour increasing majorties in 4 of the 6 seats, winning all 6, PB got stuffed alongside his predictions in Ossy.

6/ Yes, they did but not from any extreme effort just because the other parties couldn't be bothered!

Quote:

7) Just to cheer up 'all our yesterdays crowd', Cabinet are to give the Panopticon project the green light next week as outlined in a two page report.

7/ What pray tell is wrong with 'Yesterdays crowd'? we (or at least some of us) are going to celebrate V.E. day if it wasn't for 'Yesterdays crowd' making their sacrifices would you be in any position to crow about anything today?

Quote:

8) 'The Voice of Reason'... well the BNP got 4% in Hyndburn. UKIP lost their deposit and racists were kicked into touch.

Yes the racists were told we aren't interested but if instead of thinking you managed this on your own you where to run a poll on Accyweb you would find that the majority on here are happy with that situation!

Off to the pub

If it helps, I also go off to the pub when I find myself in a situation I can't cope with, but I'm a mere mortal NOT some-one that others hope they can trust their future with.

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voted labour all my life, if all you can think or say is yesterdays crowd i just hope your never in a position to stand for parliment. your sad not clever graham sorry if that seems offensive but its in my view.

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very well put willow i do tend to be a bit more blunt.

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7) Just to cheer up 'all our yesterdays crowd', Cabinet are to give the Panopticon project the green light next week as outlined in a two page report.

another wasted load of hard earned cash going on something that the people of accrington dont WANT, WAKE UP MR JONES MONEY CAN BE BETTER SPENT ELSE WHERE ,. TYPICAL BLOODY APPRENTICE POLITITION, LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE N..B...D WHEN WILL YOU SET OF D...K H...DS LEARN.

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i thought p.b had stated that it wasnt going to happen as the majority of people in accy didnt want it

is the final say so with p.b or someone else...?

sure aint the people of accy

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I am sorry you have misunderstood what is happening here.

The bulk of the evaluation in the report and conclusion comes from work I and local residents have done over 12 months to find out what is best. We were neither for nor against in the beginning. For an opposition councillor it has been a lot of hard work.

There is nothing clever or sad about working hard, getting residents involved, letting them determine what they want and working for them. What isn't clever but however is sad is undermining people who are working hard and making the effort without yourself getting to know them, what they are doing, how they are doing it and most of all, respecting that effort. Your point was labour councillors should not be making smug arrogant swipes, I don't see it that way.

Having heard much criticism of the project by members, I am questioning the basis of that criticism, it wasn't personal, just critical. My point was nothing more than a humourous, ironic summary of one line of thinking. The type of political humour you would find in a political cartoon or satire.

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Welcome back Graham. I too heard that the panopticon was about to get the green light and I know there are a few people who don't want it (some of you have made yourself very clear about that) but equally there are a few of us who do. So when some people on this site try to speak for all of us by saying

Quoted from Staggering Man "another wasted load of hard earned cash going on something that the people of accrington dont WANT"

Quoted from Chav1 "i thought p.b had stated that it wasnt going to happen as the majority of people in accy didnt want it"

they are NOT speaking for all of us. Just because those people shout loudest, does not mean that their views are the only ones worth taking notice of.

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undermining people who are working hard and making the effort without yourself getting to know them i know you dont see it that way it seemed to me that was EXACTLY what you were doing to people on accyweb with your( removed) comments about all the racists etc sorry can't quote that word perfect somebdy removed it. and as for undermining if you read all the threads on here you will find praise as well its called CREDIT WERE ITS DUE.

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fair comment. I just work hard and want the best. Anything that gets in the way of that I'll question to find out why...

comments were removed to be re-edited with the press reading them I want to be absolutely crystal clear about what I was trying to say. The press spent 2 days tracking me down [London]. They got Jean Battle to come out and make a comment, She said "Graham may have upset someone but he is an honest hard working conscientous councillor who gets to the bottom of things" I said "Any more to the left and I'll have to join the Lib Dems". The LET did not print it possibly because of the undelying race issue. I know [you know] the press would rather not print the views of a racist so are over cautious in these matters.

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I too think the ideas have been diluted by the process but there have been a lot of proposals put forward and been rejected because they've been too bold. So now we're left with the least offensive option which is now upsetting people because it's not strong or interesting enough.

As an aside, I was watching the election coverage on Thursday night and they were covering the results from Gateshead and creating a new piece of public art live on air. In the background was the millenium bridge and the sage centre. Two relatively recent investments in that town. Gateshead has turned itself around in the last ten years from being the pits of the earth to being a hugely attractive centre for arts and culture attracting 1,000s of people to visit it each year.

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I think i suggested siting it on Hameldon on the basis few people go up there so it will attract them, its still within the regional park and Accrington area so we would get funding and Gayle Knight agreed with me

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What I said was - yes Hameldon hill is still within the regional park so yes the Panopticon if sited on Hameldon would still be eligible for funding. But I didn't agree with you that this was the right course of action. Please don't misrepresent what I have said as it implies that I would prefer a different site which is not the case.

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OOps... consider myself suitable admonished

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No, not yet but regeneration has to start somewhere. No one is claiming that one piece of public art is the be all and end all of regeneration - it is only a start. Yes, we need to sort out the shops, dirty streets and all the other gumf as well but if we can just show that we're forward thinking, interested in developing the area and want something nicer for our town it will start to come.

10 years ago when the Angel of the North was suggested it was met with all sorts of objections but a few people had the vision for the town and they were strong enough to carry the uncertain through. Now, 10 years later they have all the other stuff that they wanted - good shops, theatres, nice streets and PRIDE!

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You forgot one thing Purplelass, their nationwide reputation for under-age binge drinking, sex in public, gang fights with weapons etc.

The streets may be nice during the day (and thats a matter of opinion) but the whole area is a no-go area at night.........so much for pride!

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Do you think that our local heroes, bless 'em, the poor little mis-understood darlings, have any local pride?
Last summer the scrotes burnt down the bandstand in Oakhill park. Last month, in the very same park, they sprayed aerosol and desecrated the war memorial in memory of people that layed down their lives for this country. A most heinous crime, in my book!
Now what makes you think that any objet d'art, however substantially it is built, will not come under constant attack from our collection of delinquents?

The only reason that the Angel of the North is still standing is because it is constructed from iron of a similar guage to battle-ship plate. The only weapon you could possibly attack it with is a gas axe, and who would want to lug an oxy-acetelene set up that hill that the Angel stands atop?

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I think Graham needs to launch a hard-hitting crackdown right here on the Accy Web. It looks like someone has just sneaked in and pinched all his Ackers. He's nowt left, poor lad.
Come on - own up! Who is responsible for this dastardly deed?

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Hmm,I wonder who it could be,is there a clue in your new description of yourself there Tea???;)

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What are you implying, Lyndsay?:eek:

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It appears that we need some tough policing here on Accyweb to keep Tealeaf from knackering all our ackers. :D

Where is PC Plod when we need him?

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Am off to stash mine in the Bank now before he gets 'em!

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Terrible! I don't believe it! I just made a small withdrawal from the bank to partake in a little transactiion when guess what - the lot was nicked! Come on - who is it?





Whoops!!!.....spoke to soon. Found it again.